A little less AI pain

from JoeUser Forums

The AI still has a long….long….long away to go.

But finally, today I had my first satisfying defeat by the AI.  Now, I wasn’t playing to win, I was just messing around. But seeing the AI finally able to project force this effectively is something I was never able to do in even GalCiv (I never was allowed this kind of time either).

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Now, the AI never would have gotten this golden opportunity if I hadn’t arrogantly thought that my sovereign and flag force could take out a set of large trolls. I discovered the new (in FE) “prone” hit which is really devastating (basically a knock down where your unit loses a turn).

It is interesting how important champions have become because when my force was defeated, so too was much of my kingdom’s magical capability.

The spell book at the bottom right now represents the combined ability of all your units. This is, as you can imagine, a big deal. And thus, losing a champion is a big deal.

It’s also really fun because, frankly, I’m not that familiar with how many magical spells there are (I’m basically in the same position as other players for now). I deal with magical spells from the AI’s perspective which is through analysis (that is, the AI coder doesn’t care about specific spells, it cares about what is in the XML).

Now, again, I apologize for graphics and such as I have a lot of the lighting and such disabled as I play in the debugger.

 

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Noooooooooooooo! So few spells now. NOOOOO. I miss my champions. They’re not just “tough units”. They are instruments of victory.

 

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Mind you, this is a “small” battle.

 

Mind you, I’m playing in the debugger step by step so don’t use this as an example of the fluidity or whatever of battles...and there’s no sound…

 

The AI gets a lucky win.

Population (I’m red):

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Research:

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Military Might:

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38,532 views 27 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

If you though being beaten down by those trolls was annoying, just wait until people comment on the visuals.  ;)

 

 

I really like what I see. Looks very much like a good beta. I am concerned about people assassinating the AI's heroes now, but I would need beta to test that. 

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Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Looks great so far.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Good to see the AI is learning some new tricks.

The spell book at the bottom right now represents the combined ability of all your units.

Which spellbook do you mean?

I'm a little concerned by the first image though. I get that this is probably a test map, but are towns supposed to be that close together? And are they going to be just as big as in ewom, where you ended up with a largely urbanised map?

 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

There's an outpost in there, a couple of keeps, some mines. I think town centers have to be at least 10 tiles away. Obviously you could build up the land but I think what your'e seeing is an outpost (in FE, outposts != settlements).

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Looks good. But... you can cast any spell that a champion knows in tactical combat even if that champion isn't present?

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 4
There's an outpost in there, a couple of keeps, some mines. I think town centers have to be at least 10 tiles away. Obviously you could build up the land but I think what your'e seeing is an outpost (in FE, outposts != settlements).

Outposts!  What is the function of outposts in FE?

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kantok, reply 6

Quoting Frogboy, reply 4There's an outpost in there, a couple of keeps, some mines. I think town centers have to be at least 10 tiles away. Obviously you could build up the land but I think what your'e seeing is an outpost (in FE, outposts != settlements).

Outposts!  What is the function of outposts in FE?
They're for placing near resources and things in cases where it's not worth putting a full city. To my knowledge, we don't know anything about specific mechanics yet.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Looking forward to play this. UI looking good.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

My first thought was that the first image looks really great, none of the annoying glitches I see in WoM. Then I noticed you said that lighting was off. Either lighting causes them or you've squashed a couple of bugs.

One example of what I'm talking about can be found in a dev diary pic here: http://www.draginol.com/images2010/Elemental-October-Status-Report_B62F/image_3.png

Look at the event icons on the right side and you'll notice that one of them is empty. This happens to me all the time. The event icons are either empty or they shimmer for several seconds and I just click them away in a vain attempt not to get grumpy due to seeing glitches.

Wait a sec... that pic probably doesn't have lighting on either.. :-(

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

E:wom is completely different from FE because of the different pixel shader. The missing textures bug in E:wom was only due to using an older pixel shader - that's why they couldn't fix it for so long. You can't really draw any conclusions from graphic bugs in FE based on E:wom.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cruxador, reply 7

Outposts!  What is the function of outposts in FE?They're for placing near resources and things in cases where it's not worth putting a full city. To my knowledge, we don't know anything about specific mechanics yet.

I get that.  I was hoping to get a little more info out of Brad.  Those unknown specifics you mention.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Suggestion for a spell: protective shield which would make your unit immune to "proning"

 

Alternate idea for earth spells: enlarge and shrink, which would adjust unit stats (negatively overall), but enlarge might prevent proning/bashing, shrink increase the odds.

 

That champion thing sounds like it could be abused by a player against the AI.  Assassinate champion, retreat.

 

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 10
E:wom is completely different from FE because of the different pixel shader. The missing textures bug in E:wom was only due to using an older pixel shader - that's why they couldn't fix it for so long. You can't really draw any conclusions from graphic bugs in FE based on E:wom.

The October status report is from FE and has the 'event icon graphics missing' bug.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kantok, reply 11

Quoting Cruxador, reply 7
Outposts!  What is the function of outposts in FE?They're for placing near resources and things in cases where it's not worth putting a full city. To my knowledge, we don't know anything about specific mechanics yet.

I get that.  I was hoping to get a little more info out of Brad.  Those unknown specifics you mention.

Me too. I assumed that the two area's enclosed by the fences are full fledged settlements. Can't really make out what is what from Frogboy's post, but I guess we'll find out more the next few weeks, or when the beta starts around turkey day.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Champion assassination is presumably viable, but I imagine so is "Raise Dead Champion" and "Animate Dead Champion"

 ;)

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

   Might be nice to be able to build/create new (weaker) champions from your cities, maybe produce a liutenant or captain that would have only half the bonuses and less stats of a normall champion or something.  "This guy shows promise we'll promote him to lead the 5th army since we've run out of capable heros"

 

I can't stand it when the ai runs out of champions in mid-late game

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Nice! It looks like the AI is already better then in WoM.

 

 

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I forgot that you can bring them back. That is a big relief. 

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 18
I forgot that you can bring them back. That is a big relief. 

I missed that info whenever they said it.  That is good to know.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Outposts sound cool. I remember how useful they were in Civ 3.  :grin:

 

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kantok, reply 19

Quoting seanw3, reply 18I forgot that you can bring them back. That is a big relief. 
I missed that info whenever they said it.  That is good to know.

I doubt it has been said anywhere. Just like being able to only build structures into the adjacent tiles, this is just a baseless rumor.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sir_Linque, reply 21
I doubt it has been said anywhere. Just like being able to only build structures into the adjacent tiles, this is just a baseless rumor.

Indeed. In fact the first picture in the thread shows that the only building in adjacent tiles thing is untrue. As for ressurecting champions the only thing that has been confimed is the Death Ward spell, and that's more like life insurance then ressurection.

A level 5 ressurrection spell could work, but would have to be very expensive. Maybe the death version could require you sacrafice a living champion.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Well if they don't have a resurrection spell, you can always cast death ward on the really important heroes.

Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top

If losing your sovereign means losing the game, the sovereign is too important. Players will reload any save where they lose him and will never lose.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Noumenon72, reply 24
If losing your sovereign means losing the game, the sovereign is too important. Players will reload any save where they lose him and will never lose.

I don't think I've ever done that... I always say to myself 'tough, try harder next time'. I get a perverse pleasure out of it. Besides, players will just find cheats if they don't care how they win as long as they do. Making the decision to keep your Sov at home or have another strong unit in the field should be part of the, well, strategy.