Advent 1.32

from Sins Forums

Ok, so had a few games since the recent patch and I gotta say Advent is looking better. Still the weakest race, but a nice touch in the right direction from the Devs.

Illums are still tough to get but are performing better with their buff, the Halycon is holding up better against Skirantra's nowadays and it was good to see them get something to help against phase missiles (in the form of the pact, one that is not easy to get especially as Advent but a help all the same).

Had a game recently with random empires, unlocked teams and the teams ended up myself (advent) with one advent ally on team against one Vas and one Advent, all on Unfair. 

My ally and I did pretty well, wrapping the game up fairly quickly despite the map being a random Huge Single star. Even the dreaded Phase Missile were held at bay by a balanced Advent fleet (Flak+Illums+Destras including bomber support is a fairly decent combo nowadays against Vas).

So in all, sure they could do with a few more buffs (especially their eco, the starfish and their caps not including Haly and Prog) but I like the direction they have come.

8,837 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Had a game recently with random empires, unlocked teams and the teams ended up myself (advent) with one advent ally on team against one Vas and one Advent, all on Unfair. 

My ally and I did pretty well, wrapping the game up fairly quickly despite the map being a random Huge Single star. Even the dreaded Phase Missile were held at bay by a balanced Advent fleet (Flak+Illums+Destras including bomber support is a fairly decent combo nowadays against Vas).

Any game against any AI shouldn't be that difficult. Multiplayer's where the real fun and strategy is at!

That said, from what I've heard, the biggest problem with the Advent is their lab-expensive and somewhat subpar LRF due to the dispersion  of their beams - however, they also have the highest overall DPS - so I'm thinking they're actually relatively strong against enemy frigates if you can mass your Illums in large enough numbers such that the dispersion is insignificant. (of course, if you're trying to take out large single targets like caps, concentrated assailant PM shield negation is obviously vastly superior).

If both players fighting have very small numbers of ships, the illuminator is obviously pretty bad, but if just the side beams from 40+ illuminators can destroy a ship every few seconds, I think they're quite strong.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Well true, I didn't build any SBs, but Unfair is indeed pretty easy.

I think you would agree that Vicious is certainly difficult without using early rush tactics (home world in 3 jumps, destroy the frig factory blah blah) or SB abuse.  

I am a fairly casual player thats been around for a while but probably fits into the category of those scared to enter the highly competitive, veteran filled, multi-player scene. I definitly agree though that that's where the strategy is at.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Even in MP, illums lag behind for most situations. People postulate their effect of being in the midst of the enemy all banks firing. But the human opponent isn't stupid and is always moving. Kanraks are still much more brutal. Does this mean illums are trash, heck no the good DT player with advent still goes for illums and flak if they are in the hot seat. As a vasari player, I see no reason to ever go for the HC since with kanraks, sentinels, and subverters you can wreak havoc enough and have a higher dps per supply point. Of course the TEC have the ultra spam power. I just think various Advent costs and poor eco relative to other factions is a liability. Of course someone like Aquia can lead eco on the map playing a race of miniature space hamsters but that still doesn't justify saying Advent aren't weaker.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting dbkita, reply 3
Even in MP, illums lag behind for most situations. People postulate their effect of being in the midst of the enemy all banks firing. But the human opponent isn't stupid and is always moving.

Which is why the Advent player will be continuously watching the battle and MMing their ships in return, right?

And, especially when large numbers of ships are moving around, it's very likely that at least a few ships with stupid captains will attempt to circle around the other way and give your side beams something to shoot at anyway.

Quoting dbkita, reply 3
As a vasari player, I see no reason to ever go for the HC since with kanraks, sentinels, and subverters you can wreak havoc enough and have a higher dps per supply point.

If you can micro your flak well, I think Enforcers would only be useful for defending neutral extractors (usually a bad investment anyway because the scouts can capture-and-run) and for acting as damage-soaks with their +36 hull/sec via Reintegration. But I don't like the idea of giving enemy bombers something so attractive to fire at.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I agree the skilled Advent player is going to keep microing and moving the illums into position but at the same time the deft opponent is moving their cloud also so I am just saying in practice the theoretical dps is never really achieved if both sides are paying attention. If the opponent is sitting on a large group of flak (a la one of Aquia's defensive trademarks) then they are happy to see your illums up close and personal. If they are using LRMs of their own then the enhanced range of the kanrak or targeting uplink on the TEC LRM allows them to focus and move, focus and move. Will the illums swarm some? yes. Will they pay a price. Yes. Also the formations for the lrm are usually not all in a ball. All the opponent has to do if they are tired of running is string things out. Then the illums are never in the center of much of anything and their dps drops in a relative manner. Now if the opponent sits and picks their nose and the illums hit their max dps in the middle of ball of enemy frigates then yeah its amazing :) And I have to admit I have certainly seen that. Just don't expect any of the DT players to do that for the eager Advent player. So I agree side beams will get some use but on a large fleet level I don't think the boost is really usually achieved relative to a mass of phase missiles let alone the extra 80-100 LRMs from a TEC spam.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I am a fairly casual player thats been around for a while but probably fits into the category of those scared to enter the highly competitive, veteran filled, multi-player scene. I definitly agree though that that's where the strategy is at.

You give us too much credit :)

I am a fairly casual player that has over the years become quite skilled.  This guy Loki (if he is indeed a new player to sins online) is doing well online, the newest rather consistent member that comes to mind.

Many people would train you up if you so desired, give it a shot.  If you fail, try try again.

You will fail, but you will learn what works and what doesn't.

It will be faster for you since there is already a wealth of experience shared by the multiplayer community. 

And I have to admit I have certainly seen that. Just don't expect any of the DT players to do that for the eager Advent player. So I agree side beams will get some use but on a large fleet level I don't think the boost is really usually achieved relative to a mass of phase missiles let alone the extra 80-100 LRMs from a TEC spam.

You have to get smart about it.  As advent you have to scout like crazy to stay on top of things.  Keep them scouted, and don't let them see your fleet composition if you can help it.

If their fleet is set up for an attack, line up right on the other side of the phase lane where they will appear.  The damage you will do to the fleet warping in will be substantial, and if this is a first engagement it is one of the little tricks that will help turn the tide in your favor.  Also, as advent you have to get into your opponents head.  You have to do everything you can to pick apart the enemy fleet/planets.  The main thing is to NOT LOSE SHIPS.  as advent losing ships is tantamount to dying.  Know what counters what is extremely important, and don't even risk some kanraks shredding your disciples.  Instead send those disciples to the vas HW and force them to build some defenses or retreat to deal with it.

You have to learn the juggling act with DT, but you can still shred their fleets :)

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 6
Also, as advent you have to get into your opponents head.  You have to do everything you can to pick apart the enemy fleet/planets.  The main thing is to NOT LOSE SHIPS.  as advent losing ships is tantamount to dying.

But with the almost-necessity of Advent T0 spam, isn't losing ships just what is going to happen? (you just have to lose fewer ships (cost-adjusted) than your opponent)

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 6


If their fleet is set up for an attack, line up right on the other side of the phase lane where they will appear.  The damage you will do to the fleet warping in will be substantial, and if this is a first engagement it is one of the little tricks that will help turn the tide in your favor.  Also, as advent you have to get into your opponents head.  You have to do everything you can to pick apart the enemy fleet/planets.  The main thing is to NOT LOSE SHIPS.  as advent losing ships is tantamount to dying.  Know what counters what is extremely important, and don't even risk some kanraks shredding your disciples.  Instead send those disciples to the vas HW and force them to build some defenses or retreat to deal with it.

You have to learn the juggling act with DT, but you can still shred their fleets

 

That is some good advice Sareth. I never really considered the ambush angle. You are right though that ship losses are devastating to the Advent player. It is funny to see sometimes mismatches due to poor scouting. e.g. TEC opponent loads with flak and/or HCs and little to no LRM and then suddenly a group of well microed guardians makes him want to eat his keyboard.

 

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 7

Quoting sareth01, reply 6Also, as advent you have to get into your opponents head.  You have to do everything you can to pick apart the enemy fleet/planets.  The main thing is to NOT LOSE SHIPS.  as advent losing ships is tantamount to dying.
But with the almost-necessity of Advent T0 spam, isn't losing ships just what is going to happen? (you just have to lose fewer ships (cost-adjusted) than your opponent)

I think he means after the T0 spam. You will always lose some at the start to get bootstrapped (which is why an early enemy Orkulus can make for a very unhappy Advent player trying to rush) but eventually you have to get into high efficiency kill mode.

Of course in the standard 5v5 a lot of that depends on the feed so it isn't like it only depends on the front-liner's battle skills. If you are being fed by Aquia it can cover up lots of things.