I need a Vasari strategy...

from Sins Forums

Yes, I know there are a million threads like this but I'll just go ahead.

I recently started playing sins again, but I've never been good at Real time strategy games. I know how to do everything, but I really struggle. I can beat an easy or normal no problem as Vasari, but never a hard. People post all the time that Vasari is mobility and micromanagment, and Vasari struggle mid game. But anyways me and a couple of my cousins like to play LAN sometimes and I usually suck :P

I tried playing a game against a hard on a small map (probably far too small to fight a hard) with 2 asteroids, 2 ice planets a star and a pirate base, and the two terran planets. Yeah it was way too small. I ended up only controlling my home planet and an asteroid. I read up somewhere that phase missiles were a strong point on Vasari and they are, so I researched two levels into that and massed 15 assailants early game along with the space egg. My asteroid was colonized and I was ready to take the ice planet, but I jumped there to find a huge fleed of cobalts and capitals. I targeted the caps because the cobalts don't deal a heavy amount of damage right away. I killed the capital and pulled out to regroup and repair at my repair bay. They jumped right after me and I could only get up one missile platform before they arrived. My assailants hung back dishing out damage while they all fired at my cap. My cap was at like half shield half hull and it wasn't long before I was overwhelmed and lost it. I quick sent a migrator and built a star base while they slaughtered my assailants, but they destroyed it too and took the asteroid. By that time I had build up 30 assailants at home base and full upgraded my home starbase with full weapons and armor and the population upgrade. Whenever they attacked they would all fire at it while it would tear through their light frigates. But alas after 2 full fledged waves from both phase lanes the starbase fell and I lost my defenses. At that point their culture had overrun my planet to 4 allegiance so I lost it regardless.

 

Wow that was a long story lol.

But anyways, I know that there is no set in stone strategy because it is really circumstantial and dependant on your opponant's strategy, but can someone give me a starting strategy and certain researches and fleet combinations to aspire to? And methods of being very efficiant in the first 10 minutes? And methods of capturing planets and holding them better?

 

My one weakness that I know I have to work towards is my late game: if I survive and I have the upper hand I usually give up on economy almost unintentionally and stop pushing to colonize and research.

 

So that was a really long paragraph but if anyone reads it could you help? Oh and maybe recommend switching to a different civ based on my "strategy"

 

Thanks

48,367 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

You have an absurdly cheesy unit in your arsenal that, with careful management, makes starbase kills by the AI purely impossible.  Use Overseers repair ability manually, with lots of them.  They're useless on autocast, but on manual it's sheer hell trying to kill anything big against the Vasari.

 

It's like the Dunov for TEC is against the AI, but in a cruiser.

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, so build up some overseers and micromanage during battles...that sounds easy enough

The beggining of games seems to be the hard point, and what unit combos to spam.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

assailants. and skirantras.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

It's like the Dunov for TEC is against the AI, but in a cruiser.

Actually, it's even better than the Dunov's ability since hull > shield and it gives a bonus buff to armour

assailants. and skirantras.

Throw in sentinels if the enemy gets strike craft happy.  Against the AI, this combo should last you until the end-game, when you should swap over to massed carriers.  The AI is utterly incapable of countering massed carriers.

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Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

So how obligated should I feel to research the shield, hull and weapon upgrades? And now that I know what my fleet consists of, what quantity of what ship should I pump out for initial planets?

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

So how obligated should I feel to research the shield, hull and weapon upgrades?

With the exception of Vasari phase missiles (which are that good), you really shouldn't feel obligated to purchase these upgrades.  When you do decide to sink some resources into generic performance upgrades, focus on the more inexpensive ones on the list.

what quantity of what ship should I pump out for initial planets

Depends.  If you can get away with it, stay at 0% upkeep religiously.  That will pay off enormously if you can maintain it for long periods of time.  If you can't do this, you should probably seek to fill your first 250 command fairly quickly then use those units to aggressively stake claims.  Remember that someone who stays at 0% will have a stronger economy, so you need to make those units count if you invest in the next fleet level.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I should also point out if you were surprised that the AI player was at the planet you were jumping to, you really need to scout more. I assume this was point blank, so that means the hard AI had at least cleared his asteroid and ice world already. While the hard AI gets a bit of an Economic advantage its not extreme enough to effect much early game. If neither of you attack your respective homeworlds you should be able to quickly take an asteroid and ice planet faster than a hard AI can.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Actually, since Czaran said there were Terrans not Deserts, I am pretty sure that was Quickstrike, but your point stands that one should be able to out fight a Hard AI without much trouble. I suspect Czaran was surprised by the enemy at the Ice in between both of the Asteroids.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Zeta1127, reply 8
Actually, since Czaran said there were Terrans not Deserts, I am pretty sure that was Quickstrike, but your point stands that one should be able to out fight a Hard AI without much trouble. I suspect Czaran was surprised by the enemy at the Ice in between both of the Asteroids.

It was Quick Strike. Probably the reason I didn't have it scouted was they killed off my scout and I neglected to build another one. It was also my mistake to speed up the game against a hard.

Oh and edit: I just beat another normal to test my fleet, but when I built 4 overseers they auto attacked and got slaughtered? How do I prevent that? Oh and regen bays, the carriers heal and the overseers heal made and unstoppable defense.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Oh and regen bays, the carriers heal and the overseers heal made and unstoppable defense.

Yup; healing from multiple sources stack.  Throw in an ally with Hoshikos for even more healing fun.

but when I built 4 overseers they auto attacked and got slaughtered? How do I prevent that?

Couple options.  By right clicking the "attack" symbol on the infocard, you will disable their attacks.  You can also open their behavior menu and switch them from "gravity well" to "hold ground" targeting, which means they will not move unless ordered to, but will continue to attack any enemies within range.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 10

Oh and regen bays, the carriers heal and the overseers heal made and unstoppable defense.

Yup; healing from multiple sources stack.  Throw in an ally with Hoshikos for even more healing fun.


but when I built 4 overseers they auto attacked and got slaughtered? How do I prevent that?

Couple options.  By right clicking the "attack" symbol on the infocard, you will disable their attacks.  You can also open their behavior menu and switch them from "gravity well" to "hold ground" targeting, which means they will not move unless ordered to, but will continue to attack any enemies within range.

Ah thats useful, I forgot about that.

So basically get subverters to jump in and cripple, while the assailants enjoy the 25% increased sheild bypass. Oh and the subverter's passive 25% phase missile bypass doesn't stack does it? lol that would be so unfair.

Oh and can I assume I should refrain from buying off the black market a lot? I found myself doing that way too much.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Oh and the subverter's passive 25% phase missile bypass doesn't stack does it? lol that would be so unfair.

No, two applications of the same ability do not stack.  This will stack with phase missile upgrades, though, bumping you up to 55% bypass overall (which is pretty nasty).

Oh and can I assume I should refrain from buying off the black market a lot? I found myself doing that way too much.

Yes and no; if you have a long-term deficit or surplus of a specific resource type, feel free to use the black market to correct it.  The rates are exorbitant, but if the resources would just be sitting there doing nothing otherwise, go for it.  If it's just a temporary flux because you suddenly had a bunch of high-crystal or high-metal expenditures, just wait for your income to even it out.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

just try to be first in fleet. thats a simple and easy rule. iv you are not the first build more fleet instead of other things. if you have the biggest fleet you can defend your planets. and try to research the two savagethings. so evey attack against you make you stronger.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

A larger fleet isn't always a more powerful fleet.

Sometimes its better to build up infrastructure and tech so you can have a more powerful fleet later then to have the largest fleet now.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

A larger fleet isn't always a more powerful fleet.

It usually is, though.  Certainly there's something to be said for playing the long-term, but it's rare to be going on the offensive and win handily when you're behind in fleet size.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

fleet size doesn't take into account:

1. tech researched

2. cap ships

3. micro

4. ship type vs ship type (if you counter his ships with yours or not)

5. defense structures (star bases, repair, turrets and hangers)

6. how close a source of reinforcements are (doesn't have anything to do with how strong your fleet is but can still be crucial for winning the battle/war)

7. culture bonus

8. health of ships, antimatter of ships and I don't think it takes into account how full your strike craft squads are

all the above being equal the larger fleet will almost certainly win

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

I said usually.

 

1. tech researched

2. cap ships

Those are significant wild cards, I will agree.  However, they need to vary by more than a small amount for a smaller fleet to prevail.  Faction also plays a role here; TEC will definitely have an edge with their hoshiko and LRM in the early-game, while Advent and Vasari will have more of an edge in the late-game.

 

3. micro

The skill of the player is irrelevant to the strength of a fleet.  Of course a good player can overcome a disadvantaged position, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a disadvantaged position.

 

4. ship type vs ship type (if you counter his ships with yours or not)

That's somewhat of a double-dip with tech researched.  The big ones are LF vs LRF and LRF vs heavy, which tend to come down to your tech level.

 

5. defense structures (star bases, repair, turrets and hangers)

6. how close a source of reinforcements are

7. culture bonus

8. health of ships, antimatter of ships and I don't think it takes into account how full your strike craft squads are

While these definitely have a huge impact on the actual outcome of a battle, they aren't strictly a measure of how strong the fleet is.  As well, outside of FFA, #8 probably implies there was recently a battle and you're just as depleted as they are...

 

 

 

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 17
I said usually.

acknowledged.

Quoting Darvin3, reply 17
3. micro

The skill of the player is irrelevant to the strength of a fleet. Of course a good player can overcome a disadvantaged position, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a disadvantaged position.

Some ships are effectively more powerful if you micro them well, take the guardian as an example.

Quoting Darvin3, reply 17
5. defense structures (star bases, repair, turrets and hangers)

6. how close a source of reinforcements are

7. culture bonus

8. health of ships, antimatter of ships and I don't think it takes into account how full your strike craft squads are

While these definitely have a huge impact on the actual outcome of a battle, they aren't strictly a measure of how strong the fleet is.

True but the point i was trying to make with most of these is that it can be cost effective to build *fleet support factors* rather then more ships to make your fleet more powerful.

Quoting Darvin3, reply 17
As well, outside of FFA, #8 probably implies there was recently a battle and you're just as depleted as they are...

Also jumping out of a well with a enemy star base.