Counters and other general game mechanics..

wrong.

 

Instead of going into everything.  Ima link to this thread, in which the OP has a FANTASTIC spreadsheet with everything you never wanted to know about sins.

 

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/379562

 

as far as caps, there is this thread (also a sticky), in which there is decent dicussion about caps... though it is a bit on the old side and could use some updating.

 

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/335807

 

there is also this god-awefull thread, which I am sure you can do better at this than, expecially if you look at that spreadsheet.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/408783

So far so good, though in a pinch you can use scouts to counter the LRFs (long range frigates like the Javelis) but that is more of an Advent tactic.

Why not come online with it after you feel really comfortable about your knowledge of the game and your ability to manhandle the AI (to the point where the AI no longer presents any sort of strategic or tactical threat or challenge)?  You might find that you prefer games with only human players where you get to deal with team strategy aspects.

Ok I had a look at that excel spread sheet. The only two things I really understood from it was the first chart detailing how much extra percentage of damage each unit did to other armour types, and the second more general flow chart telling me rough counters.

(The other stuff had far too many numbers for me to be able to focus on the screen without getting dizzy :P)

 

As long as its accurate then that's just about all the info I need. I realise that recent patches have come out and this chart is a year old, but apart from scout frigs doing major dmg to light armour I suspect its all correct?

Also why does only the Carrier have bar charts? What about the rest of them?

And why is the LRF considered to be a counter to very heavy cruisers? If it only does 75% to Very Heavy Armour and Cruisers seem to do 150% dmg to light armour?

 The other thing is that fighters are listed as doing 200% dmg to light armour. Is that really correct? I've never heard that fighters were that strong a counter to light armour.

And finally, which one of these is the Orgov torpedo cruiser meant to be used against structures?

Thanks

 

P.S. very nice to realise that siege frigs arent so useless as i originally thought. As they seem to do decent dmg vs cruisers (not heavy)

Also good against scouts.


They're only good against heavy cruisers.  Other kinds of cruisers they're nothing special against.  Yes, they're great against structures and starbases.


Scouts are great against light armour type units, specifically the LRF and siege frigate


Carriers, Flak Frigates and Support Cruisers only.  They'll get their ass handed to them by long range frigates or heavy cruisers.


Cost-wise, the Javelis has the highest damage output of any unit in the game.  Borderline game-breaking if you can get a good mass of them early when heavy cruisers aren't viable.


Great against scouts and solid against long range frigates.




Heavy cruisers do counter LRF.  I don't know who is saying otherwise.  You can still lose to them if they outnumber you significantly, which is not uncommon in early fights where one player goes straight to heavies (investing significant $$$ in tech along the way) and the other just masses up LRM's.

"Heavy cruisers do counter LRF.  I don't know who is saying otherwise.  You can still lose to them if they outnumber you significantly, which is not uncommon in early fights where one player goes straight to heavies (investing significant $$$ in tech along the way) and the other just masses up LRM's."

 

Sorry I edited my post and changed the values. What I meant to say was that 75% dmg multiplier to very heavy armour (i,e, the heavy cruisers) is not all that remarkable, when the other way around its 150% to light armour.

Ah so many questions! Its hard to work it all out so I'll just ask. If I go for the carrier capital ship at the start, and I need it for basic killing nearby planet garrisons, should i be giving it bombers or fighters? Even though fighters have a higher damage multiplier its the bombers that have more DPS.

 

The garrisons usually consist of light and medium armour units. Fighters do 200% to light but 25% to medium, which is roughly dps 12 and dps <2

 

Bombers do 50% to both these armour types which is 7.5. Bombers better option then?

This depends on a few things:

1. Do you clear completely or just kill lrm and siege; most higher level players only kill lrm and siege when they *clear* a planet, they then colonize and build turrets to kill the rest of the ships, fighters do alot more damage to both lrm and siege then bombers but....

2. Flak will kill the fighters but not the bombers; when it comes down to it having 2 and a half bomber sqauds is better then one half dead fighter even if the modifier is better.

3. If you were to engage the enemy while you are clearing or shortly thereafter would you rather have fighters or bombers; yes you can switch but it can take valuable time in a near match.

 

Also one thing you should consider is that some ships will have generally lower modifiers, but they may have a higher base damage to balance things out.

Fighters are highly vulnerable to flak frigates so as soon as you see 4-6 flak frigates if you are not going to micromanage where they attack they are going to die very soon. In this instance it is better if you have bombers. Another thing is that fighters are useless against anything else but scouts LRF bombers and construction frigates. 

Bombers have good HP and do decent damage to almost all targets. Keep in mind that if you want to kill bombers with fighters ratio of 1-1 or 2 is decent untill you reach above 50- 60 bombers in which case it is better for you to have bombers as well and fight battle of who kills who first. 60+ bombers especially vasari with decent phase missile upgrade will kill capital ship in just a few passes. 

In some online matches you will see someone build 40 carrier frigates and a few carrier caps. Especially if they are vasari. Such force can field 120+ bombers easily and if fighting against non vasari player is really hard if not impossible to stop especially if they have some assailants and support cruisers to accompany them.  

Great post thanks. Indeed I am trying to take both base dmg and modifier into account, though I'll have to do it little by little.

 

Thanks for the info on how to clear a planet. I  suppose then if I just go for the light armour units and leave the rest to turrets I should stick with fighters (unless there's a lot of flaks.) I should go for bombers if I want to clear everything really.

That general flow chart is not completely accurate, and is hard to follow, the rest is great. I have an old post on counters too:

I don't know where you get your info in the original post. Much of it is wrong.  The in-game info cards on ships are not complete.  For example: Scouts are actually quite useful against many things.

 

Counters. Basically it goes:  (I hope you have the same font, and these spaces line up.)

            LRF > LF > Carriers (fighters) > LRF again. Thats the basic triangle.

Its pretty obvious that LRFs (Long Range Frigates: Javelis LRMs, Illums, Assailants) are good against LFs (Light Frigates: Cobalts, Disciples, Skirmishers), and that LF are good against Carriers, etc.. The following is a more complex expansion:

                                                            > Scouts
                           > Flak       > (fighters) > LRF
Scouts > LRF > LF > Carriers         |
                           > Support         v 
                                            (bombers) > HC's
                                                            > Structures (& SBs)
                                                            > Cap Ships

LFs are good against Flak, Carriers and all of the higher tech Support (repair/disable) ships. Carrier fighters are good against bombers, as well as LRF and Scouts. Carrier bombers excel at HC (Heavy Cruisers), planet Structures and Capital ships.  See my linked post for more info, and even larger expansions.

Yes, SithLordAJ's spreadsheet is correct, and up to date. 

Regarding your other question.  Carriers themselves don't have an attack or weapons, they field strikecraft.  LRF don't counter HCs.  HC's counter LRF.  BTW, Bombers are good against structures, as well as HCs.

Yes, fighters do 200% damage to light.  So they are good against LRF, scouts, siege, colony, constructors, and torpedo crusers.  Yes, torpedo cruisers are meant to be used against structures (and Star Bases, since they are a structure).

Yes, torpedo cruisers are meant to be used against structures (and Star Bases, since they are a structure).

 

Yeah I know that, what I meant was, on the bar charts which one of those listings is the ogrov? Is it the utility cruiser?

 

Other than that thanks for yo post.

They are Anti Module ships, and aren't shown on that bar chart.  They have light armor, and anti-module attack modifiers.

Light armour? Cheers.

 

By the way I was wondering if there's any point making ships go above the level plain with ~

 

Is there any strategic advantage? I know that in Homeworld 2 some of the ships were weaker on top and bottom..

Starbases have blindspots directly above and below them.  Position a ship here, and the starbase cannot attack back.  However, this is regarded as a bug rather than an intentional feature.