Cruel AI = Ridiculous

Really you aren't supposed to take out a cruel AI one on one. Some players can, but they need to abuse tactics the AI can't handle. I personally find them fun to play against on unbalanced teams, say you and 3 hard AI versus two cruel AI.

Also its an optional feature, why get mad at it? If you don't like it, just never play with cruel AI again.

I find cruel ai pretty easy to beat

heck viscious isnt that much harder

The ai no matter what level is still as dumb as the other levels it just has more stuff to suicide into ur starbases

the more fleet suiciding into ur starbases the faster your capital ship levels to 10

just starbase rush a choke point. build it up at all costs and then get mega eco behind it. ai will just stupidly throw wave after wave of ships into ur base

you will have a max fleet with maximum capital ships all at level 10...nothing can stop that

The ai in this game is about as bad as it gets lol, cruel and viscious are just a cheating hard ai

Haha, oh I have seen many, many worse AI than the Sins AI. Honestly just make them attack starbases better and the vast majority of players will fall flat on their faces against unfair and harder AIs without that crutch to lean on.

Which is why the TEC AI is the hardest to play against. The other two are simply laughable. The biggest challenge I have is being Vasari vs TEC AI vicious.

The good news is that if you want more challenging opponents that don't get the eco cheat, you can always log onto Ironclad Online and play games against real human opponents, normally in team games.  Human players won't do the silly suicidal things that the AI does and they won't get any eco buffs (they're on the same footing as you), but the challenge comes from other players' ability to understand strategy and tactics.  Give it a try in a 5 on 5 sometime.  You'll find that those games add a new team-play-based strategic element and that the games are much more interesting, suspenseful, challenging, and intense.

I actually don't have any complaints about the AI itself, I think it is actually prety good compared to other games.

I am all for a challenging AI but come on, just tilting the table so they have more money than they know what to do with seems like a lazy man's implemtation of an advanced AI.  I want the AI to be hard,tactically - but none of this "I'ma so a ah rich I make thousands a ships and send to the slaughter until I prevail".  There is no strategy in any of that and the game devolves into a battle of atrition where every credit goes into rebuilding ships until all resources are exhausted.

I have tried the starbase chokepoint strategy and it is typically defeated by a wave of 30 torpedo cruisers. By the time you kill the 20th TC, the SB is toast and 30 more TC's are on their way.

I actually don't have any complaints about the AI itself, I think it is actually prety good compared to other games.

I am all for a challenging AI but come on, just tilting the table so they have more money than they know what to do with seems like a lazy man's implemtation of an advanced AI.  I want the AI to be hard,tactically - but none of this "I'ma so a ah rich I make thousands a ships and send to the slaughter until I prevail".  There is no strategy in any of that and the game devolves into a battle of atrition where every credit goes into rebuilding ships until all resources are exhausted.

I have tried the starbase chokepoint strategy and it is typically defeated by a wave of 30 torpedo cruisers. By the time you kill the 20th TC, the SB is toast and 30 more TC's are on their way.

I actually don't have any complaints about the AI itself, I think it is actually prety good compared to other games.

I am all for a challenging AI but come on, just tilting the table so they have more money than they know what to do with seems like a lazy man's implemtation of an advanced AI.  I want the AI to be hard,tactically - but none of this "I'ma so a ah rich I make thousands a ships and send to the slaughter until I prevail".  There is no strategy in any of that and the game devolves into a battle of atrition where every credit goes into rebuilding ships until all resources are exhausted.

I have tried the starbase chokepoint strategy and it is typically defeated by a wave of 30 torpedo cruisers. By the time you kill the 20th TC, the SB is toast and 30 more TC's are on their way.

I don't have any complaints about the AI itself, I think it is actually prety good compared to other games.

I am all for a challenging AI but come on, just tilting the table so they have more money than they know what to do with seems like a lazy man's implemtation of an advanced AI.  I want the AI to be hard,tactically - but none of this "I'ma so a ah rich I make thousands a ships and send to the slaughter until I prevail".  There is no strategy in any of that and the game devolves into a battle of atrition where every credit goes into rebuilding ships until all resources are exhausted.

I have tried the starbase chokepoint strategy and it is typically defeated by a wave of 30 torpedo cruisers. By the time you kill the 20th TC, the SB is toast and 30 more TC's are on their way. Not quite sure how you defend against that even with full armor upgrades and a massed fleet. I can never seem to kill the TC's fast enough.

Unfortunately there's only so much an AI is capable of.  There must be hundreds of different strategic and tactical variables to take into account in this game, including nitpicky things like "where should my ships be located in the gravity well".  Maybe cap ships should be kept out of combat and sometimes they should be in the thick of things.  How is the AI supposed to figure something like that out.

That's why you should consider playing it in online multiplayer PvP.  It's almost a completely different game because the strategy and tactics are much deeper.

Just so you know, Cruel is like playing against 4 Nomal AI's in one player!

Hard is a 1.5X cheat. Or 50% more income, metal & crystal.
Unfair 2X cheat. Or double
Cruel 4X cheat. Or Quadruple
Vicious 6X cheat. I'm sure you get the gist. How Ridiculous!

For proof, just see the third charts down for each:  credits, metal & crystal ("gained from planet"). Start a 6 team game with each type of AI, quit after a few seconds, look at the charts.

Use fighters (and scouts!) to kill TCs.  Upgrade Vasari SB with frontal shields, and back it up with repair bays, Skirantra, Overseers, and maybe Debris Vortex.  Advent Meteors are awesome, and Subjagators heal 1000HP.  A Rapture(s) with Vengence on the SB can do wonders.  TEC has great repair, and ofcourse the RedButton.

I thought vicious is 5x cheat. not 6x.  preety sure about that.

Vicious gets 50 cred per sec at start cruel gets 30 credits. They also have research structure and unit building benefits as well.

As for playing against vicious AI. I find it hardest to play against advent because of their starfish. He can throw so many at you and kill all support structures at the same time.

Yes ogrows are powerful but if you place your structures right all ogrows will attack Star base which is capable of soak massive damage before it dies and if microed right no mater what 1 vicious AI throws at it it should survive. 

No, I used to think so too, but I just double checked.  It's 6X.  AND Cruel & Vicious can complete research faster, but I don't know by how much, or of a simple way to prove that, other than what the link above illustrates.  The economic cheats are easy to confirm, just see the third charts down.  The top charts (/unit), are not a fair and accurate representation, but they are a helpfull comparison of what the AI is doing before multipliers.

I do know for a fact that vicious ai just orders to build labs for instance and he already can research technologies even if labs aren't completely build yet.

Same with building ships. While prototype is still researching AI can already build it in the factories.

Its easy to check things out. It does take some time but Start a game with vicious in it and then watch reply of the game........

Here is reply on me against Vicious AI with 0 SB limit imposed on myself. Reply was requested by Wrath89. Had to play again since i deleted reply of old game.

You can see that AI is beyond stupid and if you know which buttons to press vicious AI becomes easy AI.

There is something else interesting here as well. You can see that I lost only about 20 ships at most and lets say a few strike craft. Yet AI managed to get 2 capital ships he build to LVL 6. In game I deleted reply he got 3 capital ships to LVL 7. Is experience given over time for free or can he purchase experience way beyond what human can.

I too am suspicious on Cap leveling by Cruel+ AIs

I had a game not long ago as Advent against a TEC Cruel who seemingly had unlimited level 6 caps in the late game. I was the only opponent left and was always the target of the pirates (to save cash) so I know he wasn't leveling them any other way. Also, being Advent, no Insurgency nom noms either.

The only way I could explain it was that either he was building them as level 6 or, as you say, he could have been training them to level 6. It was rather frustrating.

Especially 3-4 Akkans spamming Armistice 

Yeah, Cruel/Vicious AIs do get cheats in regards to cap leveling.

Has anyone beaten Cruel or Vicious in a 1-on-1 without starbase abuse, without ridiculously imbalanced initial positioning, and without very close homeworlds (in which case one can easily go and destroy their frigate factory and then win)? I've been trying my hand at beating the harder setting AIs without building any starbases and am finding their fleet firepower to be a little too overwhelming to deal with. Against Unfair it's relatively straightforward and simple, but the next setting of Cruel gets double the income, which is too much at my experience level.

I know, I know, "play MP for a more interesting and challenging game", but I'm still working on getting my early game strategy optimized first.

I really don't want to use the "see how long you can get the AI to chase the scout(s) with its entire fleet!" tactic because I think it's way too cheap. Same for the repetitive warp-in warp-out capital strategies to keep the AI from advancing its fleet.

@ Wrath 

DL this.

Me vs Cruel AI. Random races. Random Map.

No SB. No jumping in and out with caps. No running around with caps for AI to chase them.

Game played almost like playing online against newish player who had higher resource income than me.

I did spamm bombers but not before I had firm foothold and was fighting against SB in every gravity well. Either that or very heavy losses to my fleet. I would still win but it would be very very long game.