"What happens in Vegas, goes to Apple and Google."

Everyday, day after day, the consumer is shown that you just can't trust technology and the 'Bums' who smile when you buy their products. 

Other wise technology is the wave of the future. 

wow thats just an invasion of privacy.

It's a trade off:

1. In order to use location applications ("Where's theater X?" type) and "How to get to Y?" the app has to know where you are to plot a route, doesn't it? Same for "How do I get home faster? Where are the roads congeted?"

2. Law Enforcement: Victim X was robbed of his phone, or, Mr. Y isn't a suspect because he wasn't near there (certain limitations such as phone given to someone else, or phone stolen).

3. "I lost my iPad, where is it?".

4. Grandpa has Alzheimer's Disease and had his phone clipped on... "Where is Grandpa?". 

5. "I just had an accident and I'm injured. I don't know where I am, I'm dazed and bleeding." Or the system in place on GM cars... same thing, as is the Lo-Jack device.

Most people don't realize that ALL the other cell phones (if turned on) will give the same data (and more) simply by broadcasting to cell towers and remaing on the network. All the other carriers for all the other phones hold the same data.

The location data, if marketed without permission (check your contracts) is indeed a violation of privacy. However, if you signed a contract which states it will be marketed or belongs to the carrier, you can't really complain legitimately. "I didn't read it" doesn't cut it.

If you want privacy, get rid of the cell phone, or turn it on at certain times only. 

 

 

 

thats for the GPS and the Towers  not for apple ... it is sending it to apple and Android at which they do not need to know any ones whereabouts  

and only on smart phones not dumb phones like I have..

 

that brings me to the other part of the story that was on the news yesterday

at which they was saying that Law Enforcement have a device that can read ALL your phone info that's ALL of it.. numbers, adresses, E-Mails, where you been.

and they don't have to have a warrant to do it. IF they arrest you for anything.. only in some states for now...  

 

you going to spend that much for it ... keep better track of it ...

 

again that is the GPS part of it... and way is Grandpa Who has Alzheimer's Disease NOT being Watched better. is it time to take him the a Nursing Home?

 

that's back on the GPS which Apple dose not need to know your whereabouts... it's not like Apple is going to call 911 for you ...

 

NO just Jail Break it and use the links to have that info Delete....

 

 

And that will leave you vulnerable to apps not having to meet the requirements of the App Store (like facebook).

People like being at home, they slip out of homes and nursing homes, DC.

Not an answer. How about if it's stole, or forgotten? That's a good use for the app. 

Been going on for years...nothing new about that.

The relative signal strength between  3 towers triangulates you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

http://hubpages.com/hub/Locate-Cell-Phone

http://www.cellphonetracking.info/

In Europe, all you need is the cell phone number and specific services will track it. That's w/o GPS. All done by relative signal strength between towers. Not as accurate as GPS, but quite accurate, especially if in a train or car.

Don't feel like going back and forth on this. There are good and bad aspects of everything. Nothing is pure good or pure evil... shades of gray, yes?

 

 

 

 

I think the point is (and I'm sure you know this), there shouldn't HAVE to be a trade off; Apple is abusing their paying customers, and they kept this all secret. 

In the article I read about this earlier today, there are horrible consequences of Apple's tracking data that could hurt people -- like say some person who was in hiding because they were a victim of domestic violence being tracked to their safe house, or some child whose well meaning parents gave said child a cellphone to keep in touch, but some pedophile uses the tracking ability to find the kid when they're not being watched at home or school.

I can only hope the Anonymous takes on Apple soon.



it's Not an app it's a Hidden File/folder (consolidated.db) and the way I took it, is it's not for the GPS or the towers it's for apple ..

and it don;t need to keep that info for a year ... that's a LONG time that Grandpa Who has Alzheimer's Disease Is LOST ....

 

There's a difference between what is legal, and what is right.  What Apple is doing is legal, but it's wrong. 

Doc ... this is just like a browser cookie/spyware/history it only stores where you have been,  GPS does not require it to run..

GPS is a "real time" application that is in a perpetual state of update, transmitting back and forth to the towers on a constant basis, that data should be flushed at every update "aprox every 3-5 seconds", not stored in a file for any extended length of time. GPS does not require reading stored coordinates of where you had lunch 6 mo's ago.

I have an actual GPS device and it does store my wanderings which allows me to retrace my last route if i get lost in the woods etc, BUT I can at any time clear the history and or turn the option completely off. I knew about this feature from the beginning as it was plainly written in my owners manual, and I have full control to decide whether it stores anything and can delete the info at any given time.

In many states a phone that is on can be instantly tracked by GPS, coordinated by 911 emergency, they press a button and boom they see the coordinates of the phone at that exact moment. Their not interested in a detailed map showing if "jimmy" used the upstairs or downstairs bathroom yesterday at 3:00 pm.

The data stored in in the consolidated.db file on the phones, Ipad, and their synced PC's, "has" to be "physically" retrieved from the phone, It can not be read remotely, so using the data for finding someone is moot, as if you have their phone in ur hand to access the files,,u most likely are with them.. it will not help you track grand pa who wandered off if you have his phone in hand..

IMO This info is being stored solely for the purpose of data mining sales. But it is perfect for stalkers/pervs to use to track their prey's daily routine and places frequented if they can get their hands on the phone or access the PC it was synced on, not to mention the abusive spouse who wants to keep tabs on their victims daily activities. .....  Just lovely....

 

Nice Job apple\google.

and the pizza vulture. don't forget the pizza vulture who's waiting to pounce.   

 

When anything is misused, there's abuse. I've pointed up legit uses... anything departing from that type of use is potentially abusive. If you're talking about stalkers, fine. But say you're on your way to buy 'X' for $25, and you get an ad from a store 5 min. away for 'X' at $17.25 are you going to yell, 'you're invading my privacy' or will you go get 'X' for less? 

If you signed a contract saing it's ok, then it's not really an invasion of your privacy.... like the app that "only listens to the background noise' and reports it and you get marketed for say Pizza ads and have to pay for the air time. Now that's wrong, because the potential for abuse is super high like they're only listening to the background...right).

If a guy who looks like you (I know....no one could be that handsome, but just say...) does a crime and you get picked up, if your phone proves you're innocent...will you protest? 

Well I would rather do my own comparison shopping in private than have someone tracking me like a criminal with a tracing bracelet without my knowledge and sending me unwanted spam abut a sale I never asked for, and if i did search for the info it would stil be in "real time tracking with GPS." not from an "inaccessible" file which contains my travels for the last 3 mo's.

They say it can not be accessed remotely it has to be either accessed by the user of the phone or when tethered to a PC, so real time updates of a sale is not a reality.

 

 

Well there are certain cases where this would be a benefit, But over all the negatives out weigh the positives, I should have the right to choose whether I am tracked like a dog and to be fully informed that I am being tracked by some corporation. This is not some government safety thing in fact till recently it was not even public, I can almost guarantee there was no joint venture with law enforcement to do this as a way to solve crimes. I would venture this will cause more crimes than potentially solve..

especially since the secret is out and anyone can access the information on anyone else s apple or google items. no security what so ever..

Doc, GPS is a worthy application, I use it alot, this is not a GPS application. So the only good use it could serve me is proving I was not at the location of a crime at the time it happened. Since it cant help me find grand pa, "GPS will give me exact coordinates of the phone". It can not help me find my phone as again this is not a remotely accessible Program it is a cookie, "GPS will find my phone/Ipad etc."

 

 

If it's a cookie that can be accessed, it'll say where it is... what's the diff, anyhoot...and I don't care if it's a duck or a goose... if it tracks you, it tracks you. You see only minuses whereas I see some plusses. The fact that it can be turned off means that now they'll create one that can't be. I just figure people will come up with one way or another to sell something...

 Also, just how many of the stalker/molester crimes occurred because of that consolidated.db? Did any? I don't see facts coming out, only fears. They are justified, but unfortunately not quantified - which might have gone some distance in relaxing folks. Too bad no one actually has done the research to find out... before this:

Please read this: https://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/3-major-issues-with-the-latest-iphone-tracking-discovery/

I did a search, and couldn't find any real data. This thing isn't "new" it's been around for awhile... I wasn't saying it was a 'good' thing but I also don't want the baby thrown out with the bath water. If I mixed GPS and consolidated.db, please don't shoot me. My intentions are good. Honest. 

Data mining is a reality and it is, by definition all pervasive. Is there really any way around it? By just telling everyone, the stimulus to create another, well hidden and more pervasive app is created. That's just the way the world works, "a better mouse trap". Do I think it's invasive? Yes! Do I like it? NO! Can it have some redeeming aspects? Yes... as I said, it's a trade off and everyone has to come to his or her own conclusion about it.

" But it turns out that Apple already explained its location-collection practices in a detailed letter — almost a year ago" (per "Wired").

According to Wired:

"Why is Apple collecting geodata?

The purpose of all this, according to Apple, is to maintain a comprehensive location database, which in turn provides quicker and more precise location services.

“Apple must be able to determine quickly and precisely where a device is located,” Apple said in its letter. “To do this, Apple maintains a secure database containing information regarding known locations of cell towers and Wi-Fi access points.”

In older versions of Apple’s mobile OS (1.1.3 to 3.1), Apple relied on Google and Skyhook Wireless to provide location-based services — so Apple left data collection to them. But ever since April 2010, starting with iPhone OS 3.2 and continuing into the current iOS 4 software, Apple has started using its own databases to provide location-based services to iOS devices.

“These databases must be updated continuously to account for, among other things, the ever-changing physical landscape, more innovative uses of mobile technology, and the increasing number of Apple’s users,” Apple said in its letter.

Navalho explained that mobile location services work like this: To get your location, first the iPhone or iPad pulls from Apple’s database containing previously stored information about nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi spots to quickly triangulate your location, and then finally the GPS chip analyzes how long it takes satellite signals to reach the device in order to pinpoint location."

I agree that it makes the iPad/iPhone vulnerable to hackers/thieves who get their "hands" on the device. I'm not even 100% sure it was for marketing data mining.

I'm also not sure any crime was committed because of it. Yet.

I think it was sloppy programming, and should have been made in a way that prevented anyone but Apple from accessing it (if it was for non nefarious purposes) and the data deleted on an hourly (for instance) basis. It was probably designed by honest people who didn't think of the possible criminal ramifications.

After all, the folks who got the letter never thought of the criminals, and plenty of them are techy folks. All you have to do is lock the device, and the data becomes unavailable, also.

 

 

All well and good Doc except that the Feds are involved because they don't like what they see. Its all in the news. They're launching an investigation into the why of it. Me.....I have no worries. Don't own an iPhone or Android. Have no use for either one.

One Senator (the Clown school reject Al Franken and the head of his party) found a cause. Diversion is everything in politics, Uvah. When will you realize that? 

Read this, OK? http://www.osnews.com/story/24657/iOS_Collects_Location_Data_But_it_s_Not_Sent_to_Apple

Oh... in the news. That means anything anymore? "Peanuts! Popcorn! Crackerjacks! Kool Aid!" while the 3 ring circus diverts us from what's really important: Fixing our economy.

Fixing our economy? 

Yeah, like any politician will be able to do that. 

Well, come to think about it they should, they took us down this road and created the problem. 

^ 100% correct... that, greed and conscienceless, irresponsible, unregulated behavior and a total lack of common sense supplanting "-isms" for clear thinking.

My "O" My isn't this getting things rolling. I'm not saying Apple is Ok with what they are and have done. with that please let me read where it has actually affected someone and recked their life. Another thing that has been gone on but never brought to attention and nothing has happened to anyone. Chill out fokes and the Feds will handle it from here. I'm just so happy and excoted that i'm getting another big tax increase and don't have time to think about this kind of shit that doesn't hurt me. It is an annoying thing to think about it but that's about it.

Lets all go out for a couple of so we can really talk about who is screwing us.

I stand corrected Doc. I was just saying and I agree. The only one(s) screwing us are the ones the voters put in office. Who was it that said in Hunt for Red October....Son, I'm a politician. Which means I'm a liar and a thief and I take candy from baby's.... That about covers it I think.

Look, I'm completely aware of the fact that in the grand scheme of things the fact that Apple is keeping tracks on everywhere their customers go is of very little importance to me, personally--or the world in general for that matter.  But isn't it all these little things that corporations are doing to control our buying habits, to get into our heads and take away even the small bit of free will we have, that has put us in this freakin' economic mess anyway?  You stack 'em all up and there is where we end up!

I suppose I could just let it roll off my shoulders, after all, I was pissed at Apple long before I found out they were stalking their customers, which is why first I got rid of iTunes in exchange for Winamp, and then I gave away my iPod and got a Sansa mp3 player for my workouts, which is much more simple to use and cost a fraction of what the iPod cost.  The reason I'm NOT letting it roll off my shoulders is that I think the world has rolled over and gave in so much within my lifetime that nobody even EXPECTS to care about their privacy anymore -- we're given a number shortly after birth (social security) which was never suppose to be used for identification purposes anyway, and now, today, we're all known by that number!  We're scanned and groped at the airport, we're watched everywhere we go, and our government encourages us to report to Big Brother on anything we think might be suspicious--totally clueless as to WHY we might not want people to know certain aspects of our lives, uninterested in our own privacy!

Our privacy is valuable -- ONLY because it's private!  When everything there is to know about us is open and available to anyone who wants it, we're just cheap meat!  I don't want ANY corporation I've given my money to, harvesting my data to sell to someone else -- If they're going to do that, then I want a cut of the pie, too!  It's double dipping!  Yeah, there isn't anything I can do to stop it, but I'll be damned if I just smile, and say "thank you, Sir, may I have another," when I'm being used! 

What's so outlandish about me wanting to be the one to control what I share about myself and with whom I share it?  Just because THIS annoys me about Apple, doesn't mean I don't have the capacity to be annoyed about all the other things in the world that are messed up, like the economy.

While I agree that companies have use for data mining/storage/location tracking, I do submit it should be a users option to subscribe to being a collection agent for the said companies.

Whats next? having the camera take random pic's throughout the day so they can see what products I might be using in my home? Sure that info might be helpful in marketing me ad's of what kind of soup I might like, but Is still an invasion of my privacy unless I consciously and knowingly make the decision to allow such monitoring of my private life.

I also would expect some sort of security for the data. Just like with one's personal data on websites, there has to be some sort of Protection so the data does not easily fall in to the hands of those who would use it for malicious intent. In this case I see a massive failure to offer any more security, than the fact the file was hidden. Ive read nothing about it having even basic encryption.

While no crimes using the data have come to light, but the potential for misuse of this unsecured data is huge. Hopefully no one gets hurt from it and the companies who made the mistake of storing what appears to be easily accessible unsecured tracking data, wont be held liable.

I realize that data collection is here and as long as it makes money it will stay, but I also would expect any data collected be held/stored in the highest of safety standards.

Nothing at all. I'll wager you'll reap millions from those wanting to know when you go to Publix.

What I'd suggest though, is finding out if any data was actually mined and/or sold.

Perhaps, perhaps not.... depends whose data is used, and what the market is for knowing your location at any given moment. I think if someone really wants to know that, you've got bigger problems than "who wants to know where I buy gas."

Surprise... they do. You use one of those cards in the grocery? It records and categorizes what you buy vs, age, address (income, etc.).

There was. It wasn't common knowledge. Now that it is, I guarantee hackers are busy trying to find a way to access it short of stealing your iPhone/iPad/laptop. Sure, there should be a way to guarantee your privacy. Guess what? There isn't, short of dropping off the grid.

Lock your phone. Also, why not wait until someone can actually prove that data was mined and sold? I can't understand why so many people whose thinking I truly respect are willing to buy into "Apple mined the data and sold it." without so much as a shred of non-circulstantial evidence. I agree that not encrypting the file was careless as well as not having an 'autodelete' function after x amount of time. But that's a far cry from them being guilty of privacy invasion and selling your data.