Tolmekian Tolmekian

Twilight: Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v3.51 Release 05-10-13

Twilight: Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v3.51 Release 05-10-13

Purpose of the mod:

 This mod addresses widespread errors in the TotA TechTree.xml files.  These errors pretty much broke many of the unique TechTrees, causing the AI to pursue a deeply flawed research strategy and outright preventing the research of many techs.  Part of the fix included rearranging a number of the TechTrees to fix the seemingly random arrangement of some techs and reduce the number of branches for the AI to get sidetracked on.  Along the way, I ended up fixing many UP issues, planetary improvements, starbase modules, and did some general improvement and balancing on individual techs.

This mod is a direct result of MarvinKosh's Space Weapons Fix Mod, which provided the inspiration.  A lot of my development commentary and good input from other modders working on their own fixes is in that topic.  Thanks MarvinKosh, Quaternus, deweyjohn, TOV, foxthree, qrtxian and all others for input and support.

 


05-10-13: v3.51 release

Update to fix some errors in v3.5. 

  • Because I forgot to mention for the 3.5 release: The Hyperion improvements (shipyard, shrinker, logistics, resupply) are now all Galactic Achievements instead of Super Projects.  No more collecting shrinkers :o, it really matters who builds these things.
  • I would also like to add a special thanks to Gaunathor for extensive proofreading, playtesting, and feedback.  His contributions have played a big part in me continuing the work, fixing/improving even more than I originally intended, and finally putting out a (more or less) finished product after all this time.  It's fair to say that without him, this mod wouldn't be nearly what it is.  Thanks.

04-28-13: v3.5 release

 

Here it is, the more or less finished product after all this time.  It's been about a year since I put this project down, so I'm a bit fuzzy on what exactly I did before coming back to finish it up.  I'm pretty sure I've got the major things nailed down, though.  Let's see:

 

  • Fixed those minor but embarrassing typos that made it into v3.0
  • Standardized the cost vs maintenance vs output ratios for the various improvement.  Now every race can be content with their own improvements and not shop around for the obvious best.  You can now upgrade to Industrial Sectors without fretting about the inefficiencies.
    • In general, costs went down, sometimes a lot.  Maintenance costs were also reduced or eliminated on many improvements.  No more taking years upon years to develop a planet only to have the game end immediately thereafter.

 

  • Made starting techs that allow a bottom-tier improvement for many of the improvement lines.  The idea being to allow the AI access to each type of improvement and allow balanced planet development - no filling up planets before researching basic improvements.
    • eg. Races that use the "normal" economic structures (banks, stock markets, etc) now start with Market Economics, which allows construction of the Market Center.
    • If you make a custom tech tree, this allows you to select the base techs for your tree without needing conflicting "history" techs to unlock basic improvements.
  • Rounded out the Temple morale improvements, so Altarians and Drath have a progression of decent improvements unlocked by various techs, starting with Spiritual Happiness.
  • Did away entirely with farms, charging stalks, etc.  Replaced them with a universal, one-per-planet improvement that gives a bonus to pop growth and %food.
  • Did away with Advanced Extreme Colonization techs.  Now only one tech is required for each type of extreme planets.
  • Now every tech tree includes the Government techs and Planetary Defense Techs.  No good reason for some races to go without.
  • Omega Research Center: Now with more awesome.  No longer just a watered down tech capital, the Omega Research Center is a Galactic Achievement worthy of the title.
    • Speaking of watered down Tech Capital . . . I watered down the Tech Capital.  Kind of.  Bonus from 100% to 50%, but it now generates 14tp on its own.  Which leads to the next point . . .
  • All improvements that give a bonus to manufacturing or research now also generate their own mp or tp proportional to the bonus.  This is to counteract the sometimes painful misplacement of these improvements by the AI.
  • The evil races (Drengin, Korath, Yor) got a lot of attention during 3.5 development due to general lack of competitiveness.
    • Now have access to all 4 types of capitals (economic, technological, political, manufacturing) or an equivalent structure.
    • Drengin got a couple new unique techs - Superior Warships and Fleet Domination - which boost stats and unlock Galactic Achievements to speed their conquest of the galaxy.
    • Korath have a new Galactic Achievement - the Aul Incinerator.  Out with the one-per-planet suckfest and in with something that you'll actually want.
    • Don't think the Yor got any new stuff, but some stuff is easier to get and the Manufacturing Vortex and Distributed Energy Matrix got pretty big buffs.
  • Sprinkled a couple speed bonuses in the basic techs to speed things up a bit.  Basically, the AI never designs ships with engines and ends up late game with ships that move 3 or 4 per turn.  Now we're looking at 6 or 7.
  •  Uuuuuh . . . I think that's the major stuff.
  • Enjoy!

TechTree Fix v3.51 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here.  If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the  AI's ability.  I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade.  Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing.  They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them.  It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII MinorsThe MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors.  Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix".  That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload.  So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not?  If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod.  Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both.  Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice.  I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work.  (famous last words.)


03-04-12: v3.0 Release

v3.0 continues the work, this time focusing on starbase modules and planetary improvements, particularly Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods.  Also included is a wonderful conversation mod, kindly contributed by qrtxian.  His mod fixes the errors in the GC2_Conversations.xml, so now you can enjoy all the unique dialogue as intended.

Highlights

  • All fleet modules that were removed in v2.0 are restored.  That's the fleet attack/defense and fleet warp bubbles, etc.
  • Entire Starbase Fortification branch removed.  The attack, defense, and assist modules were spread uniformly among the appropriate weapons and defense techs.
  • Enhanced Battle Stations starbase modules and added equivalent Starbase Defenses modules.
  • No more easy pickings, expect to see some well armed starbases.
  • Addressed a limitation where the AI will only use the first 100 starbase modules in the xml file.  Rearranged, removed, and edited starbase modules to ensure the most basic and useful modules are AI accessible.
  • Evil weapons and good defenses are now available at every weapon/defense level, instead of only at the end.
  • Extensive changes to Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods.  I went after them with the idea that every one should be a "must have".  Costs reduced and AI values increased to ensure the AIs actually have a chance to build them, given their inability to plan planetary improvements.
  • Edit to add - All the trade goods now have a unique icon rather than a stack of boxes.  Except the Xinathium Hull Plating.  I figured that would still come in boxes.    I chose from among the unused icons that come with the game, so they may not be perfect.  They are, in my opinion, better than the boxes.
  • Two previously unused Galactic Achievements brought into play: the Life Force Extractor and Historical Preserve.  Two new GAs introduced: the Benevolent Research Center and Trade Nexus.  All four new GAs are unlocked by ethics techs.
  • Introduced new ethics techs to split up the multiple GAs and SPs unlocked by them.  Ethics techs now also provide a small bonus, so those who don't get the GAs don't waste their research.
  • Further optimizing and balancing.  My last playtests were some of the most balanced I've ever seen.  Sure, sometimes there are runaway monsters and pitiful also-rans, but overall it's pretty good.
  • All races are still set to AIPersonality 11, or Generic.  The Altarians, Arceans, and Korx default to their unique AIP when set to 11.  You can still use AIP 8 (Thalan, Human, Drath, Krynn) and 7 (Drengin, Korath, and Yor) if you want to mix things up, but there are special considerations.  First, AIP 7 is flawed in that it won't colonize outside of its influence sphere.  In order to stand a chance, you need to use Abundant Planets, Abundant Habitables, Abundant or Common Stars, and Tight of Loose Clusters.  Then, you need to Ctrl-n until you get a galaxy where the AIP 7s have enough stars within their influence.  Other than that, AIP 7 and 8 will perform pretty well.  Their research is somewhat flawed (no Xeno Ethics, for example) and they're hyper militant, but they seem to compete well.
  • Edit to add - While trying to improve the Arceans, I tested their TechTree with regular engines instead of their unique navigation techs.  I kept the navigation techs in the standard Arcean TechTree, but also left the Arcean-Eng tree in.

I think that's most of it.  Without further ado, here it is:

TechTree Fix v3.0 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here.  If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the  AI's ability.  I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade.  Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing.  They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them.  It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII MinorsThe MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors.  Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix".  That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload.  So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not?  If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod.  Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both.  Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice.  I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work.  (famous last words.)


Update 01-07-12: v2 Release

After nearly a year, here it finally is.  Details can be found in this post.

v1.1 Notes:

  • Extract the zipped folders into: C:\Program Files\Stardock Games\GalCiv2\Twilight\mods  This is the pathway for my Impule-downloaded version.  In any case, put it into the mods folder in the Twilight folder.
  • The TechTree Fix is optimized for AIPersonality 11 (Altarian, Arcean, Korx, and Generic).  AIPs 7 and 10 are pretty much broken, and AIP 8 has certain issues that require me to do another round of optimization and testing for any race that I want to set as 8.  I set all races to AIP 11 in the mod.  You can change the setting, but it will change the way the AI pursues research.
  • My detailed change log is included in the folder.  I'd include it here for everyone to see, but it's a 15 page Word file.  It lists all the changes that I made to the techs, improvements, modules and issues.  It also includes every iteration of AIValue for each tech, so you can see just how many times I had to tweak some of them.
  • Additonal Highlights:
    • Fixes broken UP Issue "Add two trade routes".  It proposed 2 trade routes, then called for a vote on 0,1,2,3, or 4.  That vote was broken and didn't work.  It's now yes/no for 2 trade routes.
    • Restores 3 Galactic Achievements by fixing Tech Requirements: The Galactic Stock Exchange, Galactic Monument, and Hyper-Distribution Center are once again available with the proper techs.
    • Fixes error in some starbase modules that caused attack bonus to be misstated in the starbase summary.
    • Fixes Temple of Neutrality, which was a cut-and-paste of Temple of Righteousness.  That means the tourism penalty affected good races.  Now it affects neutral civs and not good ones.
    • Fixes Planetary Defense improvement so it now actually gives +25% Planetary Defense.
    • Fixes a number of errors in descriptions of techs and improvements.  Unfortunately, I didn't fix the error in the Temple of Righteousness/Neutrality/Evil descriptions.  They don't affect trade income, only tourism.
    • Fixes a number of errors in the TechTree xml that prevented the entire TechTree from being displayed in the xml viewer.
    • There's a few more in there.

 

1,775,913 views 722 replies
Reply #101 Top

Getting very curious now.

Also, there's a way to see a starbase modules requirements before you try to put it on a starbase?

 

Reply #102 Top

Quoting MabusAltarn, reply 101
Getting very curious now.

Also, there's a way to see a starbase modules requirements before you try to put it on a starbase?

 

The module description shows up in the tech tree, when you look at the individual techs.  Putting the requirement in the description would allow you to see it there.  Space is limited, though, so you have to get rid of the fluff descriptions and stick to the facts.

 

 

Reply #103 Top

v2 Release

 

I don't even know where to start.  I've done so much and had this back-burnered for so long I can't just rattle off everything that makes it different from v1.1.  I'm pretty sure I've fixed all known bugs.  The majority of the work has been in further modifying the TechTrees to optimize them for the AI and, in my opinion, to improve them in general.  Let's see what I can think of . . .

 

  • The weapons were changed as described in this post.  The short version is that the 3 different weapon types are identical and that all races have the same weapons.  There were too many issues with the old weapons and it was just too great a task for me to try balancing them.
  • I changed the ethics techs a bit.  I never quite liked the flavor or arrangement of them.  I also added a galactic achievement for the neutral tech.
  • There are no longer any "spacer" techs that provide no bonus at all, acting only as a stepping stone to the next tech.  Every tech provides some kind of bonus or unlocks some weapon, improvement, or module.
  • I did away with all techs that provide fleet modules - Fleet Warp Bubbles, Tulon Focus, etc.  I kept them in literally until the last minute - like earlier this week -  because it felt wrong to take them out and also because I didn't want to deal with the complaints that are sure to come.  The bottom line is that they're very time-expensive techs and the AI just doesn't have any clue how to use them.  Not only does is take the AI away from researching useful techs for 10 or 20 weeks at a time, but since they don't actually use them it gives the player an unfair advantage.
  • The Drengin and Korath manufacturing techs pretty extensively rearranged, and I added an intermediate tech/improvement between Slave Pits and Slave Canyons - the Slave Complex.  They just seemed to need something in the middle.
  • Almost forgot - I buffed the heck out of the Trade bonuses.  The trade techs now give +100% rather than 10%.  I think I buffed every instance of a trade bonus from the custom abilities screen to the Korx race bonuses.  I just wanted trade to matter more.  It could probably stand a bit more of a bonus, but I didn't want to overdo it without more testing.

Well, those are the major things I can think of.  There are other things, I'm sure.  I'll just toss it out there for everyone to check out.  I do have a couple concerns, though.

  1. My new defenses may be too powerful.  It looks great when I watch the AI play games, but I worry that it may be too easy for players to exploit.  You'll just have to let me know how it works for you.
  2. After discovering that deleting the "temporary" xml files allowed the AI to fully utilize my changes, it occurred the me that the Drengin and Korath and perhaps Yor may actually be a bit overdone.  Maybe not.  Again, I rely on your feedback.
  3. I'm pretty sure there have to be some bugs running around in there.  Let me know what you find and I'll deal with it ASAP.

And without further ado, here it is.  After nearly a year, I give you Tolmekian's TechTree fix v2.

Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v2 - No colonizing minors, but I did add the code that should make them at least somewhat intelligent.

Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v2 + MOOII Minors - You know the drill.  Start the game, quicksave, and reload.  Bam. Instant colonizing MOOII minors.

Hope you enjoy it.

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Reply #104 Top

I had previous set all my Ais to generic..with this mod can i set them back and expect races like the dregin and yor to function and thrive ?

Reply #105 Top

Quoting enoeraew37, reply 104
I had previous set all my Ais to generic..with this mod can i set them back and expect races like the dregin and yor to function and thrive ?

 

Unfortunately, no.  AIPersonality 7 (Drengin, Korath, Yor) is fundamentally bugged.  That is, it's hard coded and not something that can be fixed by modding.  AIPersonality 10 (Torian and Iconian) is also bugged.  Our only hope is that they follow up the minimal 2.04 patch with a substantial update that addresses these known issues.

 

However, even when set to Generic, many races will fail miserably because of numerous bugs in their tech trees.  Bugs like designating Space Weapons as Point Defense rather than Weapons.  That means that 3-4 races won't ever research space weapons unless someone else has missiles and they try to defend against it.  Ever have those games where the Altarians or Korx never made a single warship, then got annihilated when the fighting started?  That's why.

 

If you want to know the full extent of it, follow the link in the original post to the Space Weapons Fix mod and read that thread.  It's actually really bad for some races, like the Iconians.

 

This mod fixes those issues and many other issues in the Twilight XML files.  You can use AIPersonaltiy 11 (Generic, Altarian, Korx, Arcean) or 8 (Thalan, Terran, Drath,Krynn).

Reply #106 Top

Just a heads up:  It looks like v2.1 will be coming out sooner than I expected.  Sorry for any inconvenience, but I wanted to finally get v2 out.

 

v2.1 tackles starbase modules and the entire Advanced Starbase Construction branch of the TechTree.  Short version: I'm getting rid of it.  Does anybody actually research their way through Starbase Fortification, etc?  The AI certainly never does, nor should it.

I took the starbase attack and defense and assist modules and spread them among the appropriate weapons and defense branches.  Net result is that all modules are still available, but you don't have a separate branch to deal with.  I also like that you need to research the appropriate theory and weapon/defense tech to put those kinds of modules on your starbases.

 

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm doing away with Terror Stars.  Given enough outcry I guess I could work in a way to save them, but it's the same principle that I've been following all along: optimize for the AI.  Terror Stars are fun, but the AI just can't use them.  Thing is, I haven't been able to get them to not research the tech.  Even at AIValue 0.  I guess I could designate them as Defense.  I'm pretty sure a Defense tech at AIValue 0 will never get researched.  I think.

 

Anyway, let me know what you think and expect an update soon.

Reply #107 Top

So you're confirming that the AI will not use Terror Stars? I'd seen reports of this, but I've never been completely certain as I haven't ever seen any AI finish research on all five techs.

It might be a worthwhile experiment to try building one, then giving it to an AI to see what they do with it. In fact, I might try this myself.

Reply #108 Top

Quoting qrtxian, reply 107
So you're confirming that the AI will not use Terror Stars? I'd seen reports of this, but I've never been completely certain as I haven't ever seen any AI finish research on all five techs.

It might be a worthwhile experiment to try building one, then giving it to an AI to see what they do with it. In fact, I might try this myself.

 

Well, when you put it that way, I guess I'm not providing confirmation that the AI absolutely won't use terror stars.  I haven't done any hard tests to figure it out.  I was basing my statement on my experience observing the AI, which tells me that there's no way it could build and use a Terror Star appropriately.  It would be pretty hard to make the AI research the techs in a reasonable way.  Even if we could, I have serious doubts that the AI could pull it off.

 

Let me know what you come up with.  I may try it out after I'm done with v2.1.

Reply #109 Top

Well, I've seen the AI research Terror Star techs, and I've even seen them focus on it, but I've never seen one actually finish researching all five techs. However, this is at least partially a matter of how long their research times are, so I haven't seen anything thus far that conclusively shows me an AI cannot use Terror Stars. I've read claims that they won't build or use one even if they research all the techs, but I have no evidence for that.

So I'm going to fire up a test game where I give myself all the techs, build a Terror Star (or auto-spawn one, if I can find the right cheat), give it to an AI who's at war, and see what happens. My experiment isn't really about how to get the AI to use Terror Stars, merely to find out if they're utterly incapable of it. If so, there's no point in trying to fix the problems with the techs in the first place.

Reply #110 Top

Update - my test experienced something of a setback when I realized that, as I was "playing" as a minor race, I wouldn't actually be able to trade the AI a Terror Star. I did, however, gift all 8 of them the techs required. Despite playing for three years, none of them built one. So I think we can safely conclude that the AI will not use Terror Stars.

Reply #111 Top

Hey Tolmekian.  Never posted in these forums before, but  I'm a big fan of your ToTA fix v1.1.  Last night I downloaded v2, but I haven't installed it yet and now that I read your notes a bit more closely, I'm wondering if I should.

 See, I like stuff like Warp Bubbles and Tulan Waffle Irons and all that.  And even though the AIs won't make proper use of these tech tree branches, I say screw them.  I'm not hardcore enough to exploit any kind of advantage these techs might give me over the computer - I'm just in it for the funzies, you know?

 Also, my custom race are traders, and even though I haven't yet played this new version, I'm wondering if these trade bonus' might not be just a little bit on the crazy side. I know a lot of people don't put much stock in the old trade values, but I never thought they were all that broken before.  Maybe in need of a little boost, but am I correct in assuming that each +100 will actually DOUBLE the value of each trade route?  So with all three trade techs (not counting Neutral Shipping - does that give +100 too?), the total bonus would be +300%, or four times what trade was previously worth?  As I said, I've yet to run the mod, and yeah my head might hurt, but is that right?  And what about my custom civ with it's +20% trade bonus?  Will that translate into another +200%?  That just seems like an insane boost to income and I'd be hard pressed not to feel like I was cheating.

 So how much "better" is v2 over v 1.1?  Is there a significant increase in the AIs performance, or can I keep the old version and not regret it?  After all, all I'm really looking for is a "fix" for a broken game.  I do appreciate all the work you've put into this mod though.  I wish I could make my own but it's all super science to me, so I must rely on the hard work of people like you.  Thanks!

  

PS, I don’t suppose there’d be an easy way for me to just add those deleted modules back into the game?

Reply #112 Top

My own tests showed the following.

The AI will research Terrorstars even if set to AIV 0 but never actually construct one. So, I build one myself and then let the AI take over to see what it would do. Answer? Nothing. It just sat there and then it disappeared.

Setting the TerrorStar to ID Defenses will pretty prevent the AI from researching them but leaving them there for a player have have a laugh with.

Also if you want the AI to research Starbase Fortification, set it to ID Weapons and it will do just that and it will upgrade its starbase. I've seen defenses up to 60 but again you're not going to fool a human player into endlessly sending wave after wave of ships to meet their death on a starbase so it's no coincidende Defenses/Starbase gets ignored.

 

 

 

Reply #113 Top

qrtxian and MabusAltarn: I guess that's that.  I'll try maybe changing Terror Stars to Defense and see if the AI leaves the techs alone.

MabusAltarn:  I actually don't want the AI to research Starbase Fortification.  It's a long, fairly expensive branch with low payoff in the grand scheme of things.  The consensus seems to be that arming starbases is wasted effort after a certain point - a fairly early point.  To make it worthwhile to invest in starbase weapons and defense, the modules need to be more easily available and not as costly or cumbersome to install.  Weapons and defenses also need to be more powerful.

I'm addressing these issues in a number of ways:

  • I made starbase modules free in v1.1.  No more paying to upgrade.  Not only is this nice for the player, but it's critical from the AI perspective.  AI money management is horrible, so they usually don't have extra cash laying around.  Ever wonder why the AI never adds modules to its influence starbases?  It's because the first module costs 500bc.  Players of v1.1 should have noticed that the AI will actually build up its starbases fairly well.
  • In v2.1, there is no more Starbase Fortification branch.  Weapon and defense modules are spread among the appropriate weapon and defense techs.  Since they're more widely available, they'll be more widely used.
  • I added a Starbase Defenses line of modules that mirrors the Battle Stations line.  Giving starbases basic defenses in all categories is much easier.
  • I removed the module requirement for all weapon and defense modules.  All weapons simply require Battle Stations and all defenses simply require Starbase Defenses.  Now, if you want to fortify a starbase in the mid-to-late game, you don't have to send 10 constructors to build up through hopelessly obsolete modules.  You can just build Battle Stations and/or Starbase Defenses, then install the highest level modules available to you.  In v2 I made the mistake of forcing you to build up through Starbase Fortifications.  Now that I'm focusing on starbases, I realize that I made a mistake.
  • I made the weapon and defense modules more powerful.  Battle Stations and Starbase Defenses now give 2,4,8, and 16 bonus in each category.  In addition, the higher end weapon and defense modules are more powerful.

I think this is going to be a big improvement in starbase fortification.  I'm running my first playtest currently.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

Next up - unintended consequences of making the stock, non-colonizing minor races too intelligent!

PS - I'll reply to you, too, Wetballs.

Reply #114 Top

In 2.0 it still costs money to build the first starbase..given that the poor AI is constantly broke from buying my crappy tech its no wonder they dont get starbases going. They should prob just be totally free as any cost was built into the constructor. The Ai really needs to jump more on the galactic resources..seems to just completely ignore them.

Reply #115 Top

Quoting enoeraew37, reply 114
In 2.0 it still costs money to build the first starbase..given that the poor AI is constantly broke from buying my crappy tech its no wonder they dont get starbases going. They should prob just be totally free as any cost was built into the constructor. The Ai really needs to jump more on the galactic resources..seems to just completely ignore them.

 

Funny you should mention that.  The unintended consequences of making the stock minors intelligent is that they build constructors and start grabbing up all the resources while the majors are still in the colony rush.  My playtesting shows that there is a sweet spot for constructor building - after the colony rush and before the arms race.  During that time the AI pumps out constructors and does the bulk of its starbase work.  During the rush and arms race constructors are a bit of an afterthought.

For the minors, no colony ships means they can start sending constructors out as soon as their scouts find resources.  Turns out they also rush Trade technology and start sending out freighters, too.  Near the end of year 2 in my current playtest, the Jessuins are the most powerful civ because they actually have a warship while the majors probably don't even have a weapon theory.  I get the impression that intelligent minors may end up being somewhat powerful even without colonizing.

Reply #116 Top

Quoting Wetballs, reply 111
Hey Tolmekian.  Never posted in these forums before, but  I'm a big fan of your ToTA fix v1.1.  Last night I downloaded v2, but I haven't installed it yet and now that I read your notes a bit more closely, I'm wondering if I should.

Please give it a try.  It's not like it will wreck anything.  If you don't like it, just switch back to v1.1 and be happy.

 

See, I like stuff like Warp Bubbles and Tulan Waffle Irons and all that.  And even though the AIs won't make proper use of these tech tree branches, I say screw them.  I'm not hardcore enough to exploit any kind of advantage these techs might give me over the computer - I'm just in it for the funzies, you know?

I understand.  That's why I never had the thought of taking them out until it hit me like lightening right after I started work to finalize v2.  It's not necessarily that the AI won't use the techs, it's the very long time spent researching them.  I haven't played a game of v2 myself, but i suspect players will find a leaner, meaner AI that gets further along in the tech tree because it doesn't divert to these other techs.

 

Also, my custom race are traders, and even though I haven't yet played this new version, I'm wondering if these trade bonus' might not be just a little bit on the crazy side . . .

Well, since I don't actually play my mod, I can't really see it from the players perspective.  It looks great when I have the AI run it, though.  I'm sure some crafty player could max out trading, pick a short, sweet route, and line it with trade starbases to get 1 million bc per round, but I just don't know.  How 'bout you let me know?

So how much "better" is v2 over v 1.1?

I think it's a lot better, but I'm biased.  It has a lot more of my personal touch than v1.1, but I also did substantial work to continue optimizing and fixing other minor errors.  In particular I spent a lot of time making the evil races (Drengin, Korath, Yor) more competitive.  My latest playtesting tells me the Yor really are machines and the Drengin are once again the scourge of the galaxy.  in v2.1 I'm also finding errors in starbase modules, particularly race-specific modules, that prevented them from being used.  So there will be yet another improvement in basic gameplay.

  

PS, I don’t suppose there’d be an easy way for me to just add those deleted modules back into the game?

Well, again, please do try v2, then v2.1.  And since you gave a good reply and asked nicely, I'd be happy to make you your own little mod that keeps those techs.  It looks like I'll also be leaving Terror Stars in, so I'm sure I can find a way to make the AI ignore them, for the most part.

Maybe I'll call it Wetballs 2.1.

Maybe not . . .

Reply #117 Top

Oh I'll definitely try the mod out - I just haven't had time to play for a bit.  Also, I didn't mean to come off as though I was complaining about free stuff on the internet, so I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like.  As I said I was a big fan of the earlier version, and not just the improved AI performance, but a lot of the other fixes too.  For instance, the new arrangement of the farm techs is far and away better than what we had before (and a lot easier to manage).  Plus, I never even knew there was such a thing as a Galactic Stock Exchange!

 

About the trade techs – I’ll certainly play the mod and let you know how it goes.  I think trade income might look more or less important depending on what kind of games people play.  What I mean is, because it’s a fixed wad of money, it might not seem like much if you play with maxed out habitable planet settings and so have dozens of colonies paying taxes.  On the other hand, if habitable planets are set to be more rare, trade income will be much more significant since you won’t have as much tax revenue.  In both cases, the game only allows you a maximum of 12 trade routes, and those routes are going to pay the same whether you have 4 colonies or 40 (as far as I know).  So maybe I’m just biased since I usually play with habitable planets set to “occasional” in a huge galaxy.  Or maybe it might seem to others as though taxes aren’t worth much since they play with habitable planets set to “common”.  And/or maybe they only play Good or Evil aligned civs, and don’t have access to Neutral Shipping (or waste customization points on extra trade routes), so they’re used to only having 8 trade routes available.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to playing, and will post a more informed opinion later (though it might not be very soon).  It looks awesome!  Thanks again!

 

 

 

PS,  Also, I dunno if you were joking, but please don’t make a special mod just for little ol’ me simply to include Warp Bubbles!  I’d feel like a jackass!  (Even though Warp Bubbles and Tulan Crock Pots do help to simulate carriers.  How could they not include carriers in Galciv2???  They said “carriers wouldn’t add anything to the game”, but then they go and add TERROR STARS?!?  What do Terror Stars add, except a bunch of confused AIs?  To quote Bugs Bunny “It don’t make no sense!”)

Another PS,  Sorry about the “Wetballs”.  I made this account a couple of years ago to download stuff, never thinking that I might actually post.  But now here I am apologizing for a ridiculous forum name.

Reply #118 Top

Incidentally, as far as that test game goes, during it I experienced what I can only assume to be a really strange bug, in the form of this unusual plea for help:

For the record, I turned them down, but it wasn't something I'd ever seen before.

Reply #119 Top

I've actually seen this a lot while testing default  AI research on auto play but never while actually playing. Kinda weird, probably a bug.

Reply #120 Top

Quoting Wetballs, reply 117
Lots of stuff

No worries.  I didn't take you as complaining at all.  I was being serious when I said I'd make a separate mod to put the techs back in.  The way I took them out makes it very easy for me to put them back in.  Besides, I'm sure there are others who won't be happy not having them.  I will have to try harder to make sure the AI doesn't research them.  I think I will keep Fleet Warp Bubbles out of the Minor Race TechTree, though.  Kinda silly that only Terrans can have them . . . oh yeah, and every single minor race.

 

qrtxian and MabusAltarn: I've had the pirate bug pop up quite a bit while playtesting.  I don't use mega events, so the pirates aren't even in the game.  Maybe it has something to do with playing as a minor race.  It would suck if the minor races are wasting resources helping the pirates.

Reply #121 Top

For the record, you don't need mega events to get pirates - there are a couple of "normal" events that spawn them, and then there are the pirates that pop up when a civilization is eliminated. Of course, none of that had happened yet.

Reply #122 Top

     My apologies for a very basic question, but how/where do you install the mod under windows 7?  I've got several stardock, Gal Civ II folders on the hard drive and not sure which one to use. 

     Also, is there a simple way to tell if the mod has loaded?  I've tried making a mod folder within the several "Stardock Games\GalCiv2\Twilight\" folders, but when I check the tech tree I still see warp bubbles listed.  Since I belive that tech has been removed in the mod, I'm assuming the mod is not being loaded.

     Thanks

Reply #123 Top

Under the basic Galciv2\mods folder -not- in the Twilight folder, then you need to go into the game and tell it to load it under options.

Reply #125 Top

Interesting results on playtest 1 of v2.1.  Minors end up getting crushed fairly easily despite a strong initial performace.  Definitely their best showing and interesting to watch. 3 of the 6 are still holding on by virtue of good placement, decent fleets, and strong starbases.  Not only did the minors capture resources and build other starbases, but the new module structure allowed them to fortify pretty well.  The Akilians have a starbase with attack and defense totals around 20.  The starbases themselves serve to draw a fair amount of flak and thin the incoming fleets.

I noticed that trade helps the minors immensely.  They may only draw tax revenues of about 100-125bc, but some had trade worth 200-300bc.  I also noticed that the majors put a lot more effort into researching trade techs and sending out freighters.  Usually trade is somewhat anemic and a number of races don't even bother.  This time around everybody has freighters out and a few had up to 6 trade routes going.  I can see how a player might completely break the system, but I love the way the AI  has been using it.

Once again the Korath and Yor are dominating the galaxy.  I think it has to do with their bonuses and the way I set up their custom points.  Time to go back to the method of making identical custom races to test the TechTrees.

More to come . . .