superfleet

Stuff the community wants in Sins 2

Stuff the community wants in Sins 2

Warfleet here, this thread is for people who want to make suggestions to Stardock andIronclad about stuff we would like to see in Sins 2. In no way is anything said here official, including if they are even making Sins 2. I do not work for either company so i dont know.

Something that i want the most for Sins 2 is more ship classes to perform each fuction. As it is now, we are fairly limited in our choices of ships to perform certain tasks. want i am wanting is 2-3 ships for each fuction. Lets use the garda for example. So we want to clear out some enemy fighters, but we cant use our own fighters. We would use the garda to do this. later on in the game we would have access to a garda refit research making the garda all around stronger and better at its job. and in the late game when the Garda refit becomes obselete, we would research an entirly new class of flak ship. this would work well with the sins storyline as i dont see the exact same desighn of ships be still effective after the first 25 years of the war. perhaps more types of capital ships as well? id settle for just the frigates though.

The 2nd thing i think is that all ships should be atleast a little all around. say like all ship are armed with atleast point defense agaisnt fighters, but the flak ship is extremly good at the task. the flak cruiser would also be capable of taking on larger ships but not nearly as well as a direct heavy combat vessel. you would still need balanced fleets, but it would make them more realistic in my opionion. as it is i have a hard time as seeing a kodiak fill the description that i think of when i hear the word cruiser

75,370 views 34 replies
Reply #26 Top

3d.

64 bit.

multicore.

better physics.

turrets that rotate.

more nukes. cant have enough of those.

Reply #27 Top

Quoting Allquixotic, reply 9
IMHO all future Stardock/IC games should come with a 64-bit build. We have seen over and over and over that 4X strategy games have a sprawling nature to their data set that is very difficult to contain within the virtual address space of a 32-bit process, at least as far as Stardock's implementations have shown. Couple that with some kind of high performance on-disk database for caching less often used objects/data, and you should form the technical foundation for the future of Stardock/Ironclad 4X strategy games. These two measures would in principle get rid of the minidumps due to out of memory once and for all.

Technical issues aside, I'd like to see a more immersive customizability and personality to the units you create and the planets. GalCiv 2 would let you see the planet closer up, and throw out quotes from a database representing how the citizens feel about living there. That was pretty cool, but that represents just one step towards the kind of character-building that I'd like to see.

Next, I'd like to see a veterancy system for ordinary ships and starbases, so that they can improve their stats somewhat as they have more battle experience. They won't be able to get new abilities or improve their stats as markedly as a capital ship, but there would be value in retaining your ships rather than throwing them to their deaths. This would have to be balanced so that a player without veteran ships would still have a fighting chance (given proper strategy) to take out the guy who has been training up a fleet of veteran ships all game.

For planets, there should be one-off morale boosts for certain events, that only last a limited time. Morale would slightly improve the rate of construction, population growth and commerce. You would notice a morale boost if a planet gets sieged but survives due to a hard-won battle in orbit with your defending forces or fleets. You might also get a morale boost in a friendly system where your flagship (the oldest capital ship currently in service) is currently stationed.

I also like the idea of evolving technology, hinted at by someone in an earlier post. Keep the tech tree conceptually as-is, but also factor in that ships naturally and irreparably deteriorate over the span of years. For example, it is only possible to retrofit a ship so far, because design decisions like the shape of the hull and the space in the interior of the ship will eventually reach hard limits, and changing these limits would be too expensive or impossible without compromising structural integrity.

This concept of evolving technology would manifest as a gradual decrease in effectiveness of long-serving capships, eventually necessitating the decommissioning of a ship. When a ship is decommissioned, its service record is evaluated, coming up with a numerical "score" that represents the ratio of engagements attempted versus engagements "won" (where enemy losses exceeded friendly). The higher the score, the more of the crew of the ship will be re-commissioned into a new ship, which will be stronger, more current and more powerful than the old ship. This will manifest itself in things like flight speed, weapon damage, hull points, and the effectiveness of activated abilities.

So if your flagship reaches a very high level and has only rarely had to retreat from a losing battle, while on the flip side it conquered many planets, it would be decommissioned retaining, say, 90% of the experience points of the original ship. A new ship of the same class would be created with stats even greater than the starting values of the original flagship, and it would keep 90% of the experience.

Decommissioning wouldn't become mandatory at any given time; you could in principle leave an ancient ship in service forever. But after a certain point, additional credits would start to be deducted to keep the ship in service, presumably because obsolete parts have to be special-ordered, and crews trained on new ships have to be trained also on the ancient ship. The effectiveness debuff would cap out around 75%; e.g., an initial hull integrity of 1000 would stop deteriorating at 250. But you can't just decommission a brand new ship, either; decommissioning wouldn't be possible at all until, say, 20% of the initial stats have been lost due to ship age. It's up to the player to decide whether to keep an old ship in service, or to turn it around (at a significant strategic risk due to its unavailability) as soon as decommissioning is possible. Maybe also throw in a researchable tech to improve the benefits granted to replacement ships when you decommission.

The upshot of the decommissioning process is that, near the end of a very long game, capital ships would be extremely powerful. Having gone through 6 or 7 generations of improvements, your highly experienced crew could come out of the factory with a new ship at level 7 (out of 10) but with 3 times the firepower and hull points as the original design at the same experience level. This rewards careful strategists who make sure that their capital ships survive engagements, and provides the maximum reward to those who make sure that they actually win every engagement involving their cap ships. Eventually, this effect becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, helping to wind down painfully long games by providing the more skilled strategist with a fast, powerful behemoth of a capital ship that can roll in with a small escort fleet and conquer the enemy, regardless of the amount of resistance. But to get to that level, we're talking hours and hours and hours of play, accumulating momentum and field experience.

Aside from modelling the real life facts of design obsolescence, this system would also model the real life concept of operational knowledge, which is basically a whole set of competencies and rules that ship crewmen (in the modern Navy) accumulate over the course of their career. When the chain of command is unbroken, and senior officers are allowed to personally train green officers in the ways of the ship, the operational knowledge is preserved from generation to generation, even across new ships. If the ship is lost in combat, all that operational knowledge is lost. And we can assume that ships that do very poorly in combat won't have much valuable operational knowledge to share anyway, hence there would be a significant (50-60%) exp loss by decommissioning a ship that loses most of its engagements.

Just thought of something else: Maybe you can have the decommissioning process only apply for TEC, to add some flavor. For the Vasari, ships don't deteriorate, but you can invest materials / credits to unlock experience levels above 10, forming a sort of "super-elite" crew that can crank the ship stats into overdrive. Same result, immensely powerful capships, but without deterioration over time, instead bringing in a resource cost. Not sure what other unique system you could introduce for the Advent, but I'm sure someone could think of one.

 

This is a great idea.

I also think that you should be able to pick and choose which ship is your flagship since the oldest ships arn't necassirily the flagship these days. the ship could get a fight hader bonus since their trying to keep a high ranking milatary officer alive

Reply #29 Top

Quoting bluesuns, reply 28
Mechs!

 

ehh... no.

Reply #30 Top

1. Stable multiplayer that does not alienate potential players because of bugs.

Then on to the other stuff...

 

EXPLORATION

I'd like to see the phase lane network reworked. No lanes any more, just range. Heavily defended bottlenecks in space don't make sense. I'm not saying everything in a game needs to make sense but it doesn't hurt and in this case it would keep the game flowing better. I think I actually preferred Sins before Entrenchment introduced the heavily defended/mined bottlenecks and crazy Vasari starbase offensives. Blocked phase lanes tend to stall gameplay too much. It's just more fun when you have skirmishes and battles anywhere instead of just barricading your border phase lanes and teching to superweapons.

Basically I would like to see the Exploration bit done like MoO2 with a more realistic approach. Star systems instead of just planets. With more different kinds of planets, locations and outposts.

I would also like to see a new exploration mechanic: hidden locations that are revealed by extensive exploration or teching up scanners. Such as mineral rich asteroid fields and alien wreckages with lost technology or artifacts. Pirate base should also be hidden.

 

STARBASES

Starbases never really found their place. Save for using them against the dumb AI who feeds them endless fleets. But multiplayer is the true test of a feature and Starbases in multiplayer tend to be either completely useless or annoying.

The main function of starbases should change. First, they should be tied to fleet supply. Destroy an enemy starbase and their fleet supply cost would rocket, or they would have to downsize their fleet. So destroying starbases would be the key to winning a war. Starbases should also focus on housing labs, frigate factories, trading etc. They should be tempting targets instead of just something you always avoid.

Reply #31 Top

"I'd like to see the phase lane network reworked. No lanes any more, just range. Heavily defended bottlenecks in space don't make sense. I'm not saying everything in a game needs to make sense but it doesn't hurt and in this case it would keep the game flowing better. I think I actually preferred Sins before Entrenchment introduced the heavily defended/mined bottlenecks and crazy Vasari starbase offensives. Blocked phase lanes tend to stall gameplay too much. It's just more fun when you have skirmishes and battles anywhere instead of just barricading your border phase lanes and teching to superweapons."

 

This I completely agree with. Huge bottlenecks and chokepoints often stall the gameplay to endless boredom. I think the best solution would be moving phase lanes one level higher, Space Empires style - from interplanetary to intersystem lanes, with movement inside single system unrestricted. Of course that would have to be followed by more realistic system design - say 10 systems with 8 planets each instead of 3 systems with 25 planets each. But that would be only good.

Reply #32 Top

I just played Master of Orion 2 again and there's a lot of good stuff there that could apply to Sins or any other RTS. It's a great game save for the awkward and limited research paths and having no reason to build anything but the biggest possible starships.

I would also like colonization in Sins to become something of a bigger deal. It could be a huge risky investment rather than just another planet protected by a weird group of neutrals for no apparent reason. And perhaps less colonies overall would be good so you would have more time to focus on them.

Reply #33 Top

I want the Sins 2 game to become more like :

Homeworld: Real 3D tactics, formation, ship movement, and lego like ship interconnectivity. Sins is so close to topping the king. If you combine Sins empire management with Homeworld's 3D, ship movements (no bumper boats) and formations. I would be in heaven.  

AI Wars: This game has an incredible arsonal of tactics. Sins 2 needs to become deeper with more complex ships.

Galactic Civilizations 2: Oh god, could you imaging Sins with the ability to customize ships like GC2

Gatatuious Space Battles: The ability to customize ships with modules and assign tactics

Dragon Age: Origins: Yes an RPG, but it had the ability to add complex tactics with the simplicity of setting rules with drop downs in Outlook. Imagine setting rules of engagement commands like "If enemy stucture is within 400km and health < 30% attach enemy stucture if gravity well contains no enemy capital ships"

Stardock will need to push this hard especially if Relic is working on a Homeworld 3.

 

Reply #34 Top

Quoting mriguy, reply 33
I want the Sins 2 game to become more like :

Homeworld: Real 3D tactics, formation, ship movement, and lego like ship interconnectivity. Sins is so close to topping the king. If you combine Sins empire management with Homeworld's 3D, ship movements (no bumper boats) and formations. I would be in heaven.  

AI Wars: This game has an incredible arsonal of tactics. Sins 2 needs to become deeper with more complex ships.

Galactic Civilizations 2: Oh god, could you imaging Sins with the ability to customize ships like GC2

Gatatuious Space Battles: The ability to customize ships with modules and assign tactics

That sounds like things that would be better handled by mods.  The problem is that as you make the game management and options increasingly complex, it becomes less and less of an RTS and more and more like a turn-based 4X.

I like the idea of being able to have formations, perhaps race-based.  It would be nice to have a few more ships but they have to fit and not muck up the game's balance.  Realistically I think our best bet might be to keep the same numbers and classes of ships for each race and to add two more races if it can be done without mucking up the balance.

Dragon Age: Origins: Yes an RPG, but it had the ability to add complex tactics with the simplicity of setting rules with drop downs in Outlook. Imagine setting rules of engagement commands like "If enemy stucture is within 400km and health < 30% attach enemy stucture if gravity well contains no enemy capital ships"

I'd like to see the ability to be able to assign ship classes attack priorities.  "Kill the enemy LRMs first, then kill the light frigates."  I suppose it would be most useful for colonization since in a real battle you'd probably want to micromanage all of that.

One think I hope Sins 2 doesn't do is follow in Dragon Ages consolized footsteps by eliminating custom content and online multiplayer.  (If Sins 2 doesn't have online multiplayer, I won't buy it.)  Dragon  Age pissed me off because unlike Neverwinter Nights it completely lacked the ability to have custom content and online multiplayer which was one of the best things about Neverwinter Nights--being able to play Dungeons and Dragons online for free in persistent universe servers.  Instead they chose to consolize it and to follow a "pay us to download downloadable content" model.