Um, I'm not sure if you've been around since the beginning, but I don't see any inconsistency. When the game came out crashing like crazy for a lot of people they said they would give away the first expansion free for those who bought the buggy game. But that has since changed. They decided that it was buggy for too long or something, and they said the first expansion will be free for everyone (I'm guessing this is to restore their reputation overall - they don't want people to feel rip off that they intentionally released a buggy game and require you to pay for an expansion to fix it). They also said then that the second expansion would be free for those who bought the game to support them (before 1.1). I'm not sure what's so hard to figure out... but I hope I cleared it up.

To be honest I wish they would just cut it out. I'll gladly give them another $20 if they add a good chunk to the game with those updates.

I don't see the discrepancy.  Originally, only those that owned the game before 1.3 would get the first expansion pack.  Now everyone gets that, so that's better than it was before.  In addition, people owning the game before September 30, get the second expansion free.

What's the issue?

I wasn't talking about the 1st expansion pack.  They made an improvement on their initial offer, so thumbs up on that one.

For the 2nd expansion pack, Frogboy first said it would be free to people owning prior to v1.1 release. Now it is a Sept. 30th deadline.  That's the difference I'm pointing out. 

It may not seem like much of a big deal, but I am still contemplating whether or not to purchase this game (I own and have read the book) and reading the ongoing evolution of the game here isn't instilling a lot of confidence in me to go out and pick it up. :-(  And I really would like to, too.

I'm easy to please. These are the only things I would like to see at this point and they don't affect the current game playso hoping for "B"

-Dual Wielding with unit design.

-Naming geographical locations (forests/mountain ranges on the cloth map). B as well?

-More variety of mounts/weapons/armor

That's it. Keep up the good work, Stardock.

I see what you mean... perhaps they are aiming to get 1.1 out by sept 30th? No idea on that.

Here's an idea for A, B, and C:

Make a suggestions box that lets people anonymously send ideas in.  That right there will stop 90% of these retarded posts that read like spreadsheets because without an audience and the resulting +Karma circlejerk, most people would't care enough to offer ideas.

An anonymous box also lets you hear feedback without having to go through the automatic, totally human process of "he's a jackass, I don't care what he thinks" or "he's kissed my ass, let's read what he has to say closely" favoritism.  You've said you're aware of the Fan-Cult of Brad comprised of yesmen that just love how Elemental crashes after 150 turns because it makes them better players and anyone who doesn't agree is a trolling noob.  If you're truly aware of it, you need to build safeguards in that protect you from its idiocy.

After you've done that, stop reading your forums.  No, seriously.  Keep QA staff in Tech Support to help with bugs, make two Community Managers to read General and (rarely) post responses/previews/whatever.

But you, Brad, really need to step away from all of this.  It's reached a deeply personal level and it's time for you to put space between you and the game.  Until you do, both you and Elemental will be worse for it.

Patch 1.1 should be out by then, considering that patches have been pretty much coming out each week.

My idea for C: remake master of magic in the elemental engine :p

Quests to get heroes

update on sword of sovern and shield of sovern quests that when reciving the quests it spawns diferent spots where you have to fight mobs like a dummied down version of the epic quest

More interaction with neutral factions so they arn't just a dummy taking up space on the maps

More quests and posibly repeatable quests

Expanding marrage to include possible quests and/or marrying into neutral or other allied factions

I would like to see more depth in both city building and researching ie need to research blacksmithing and build a forge inside you city to make metal weapon and carpentry and such for bows and staffs

more depth in the idea of restoring the land not just hey I put up a city so the land is automatically green again

More depth to diplomacy and intrigue troops counts plays too big of a factor in whether ai considers you a freind or a target

more ai personalities and loyalty between faction doesn't seen right having kingdom ai sending me messages to join them in a crusade against another kingdom faction.

increase the cost of outposts or if you intend the game to be a massive see who can spam the most cities out the fastest update the UI so we can manage 20 - 30 cities better

i just hope expansion B will have more spells , skills for heroes and more depth dynasty system

I've been reading back and forth trying to figure out what the probable timeline for true random maps is.

Or even if it is a done deal that will happen or not. Is this something that would fit in B or C if it was to be made.

Thanks!

You can do them now with an external program.

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is enough information for us at the moment, and have posted a more detailed comment here https://forums.elementalgame.com/396951

Considering the status of the game I could not care less about converting my unbalanced resources!   There are more important things to address urgently, like giving the game more content and some balance for Christ's sake.

And fanboy's can save their flame-throwers and just continue enjoying the game. 

Just take every spell and every unit ability from MoM and implement it all (where applicable).

Add the To-Hit stat, magical attacks and various resistances.

Also, remove the researching for some of the more simple techs to make them a given (heroes, dungeons, etc.), and start the sovereign off with some spells.

In this way, you will bottle that priceless element - nostalgia. It fogs up the glass so that people can't see clear enough to really complain about anything.

After that, whatever you do, this game will have a huge pre-existing base of die-hard fanatics.

[EDIT] Ooh, also add all the applicable MoM wizard traits (channeler, artificer, etc.)

A few basic things:

Separate Run Speed from Attack speed (during a battle) ... increase these, and the correlated actions can use up less action points.

Good Combat (I've spoken plenty on this)

Good Magic

NPCs with their own AI/personality, and their own "purse" to hold their own personal money

NPCs spawning from both wilderness AND cities (late game cities will be primary spawn point)

//

Now, a few things that I *think* could be easily balanced into the game.

A Taxable population ... lets assume 1 face for every 200 people, and cities that have the potential for growing over 2000 population.

Say, perhaps Taxes can go from 1 "tax unit" per 200 population ... all the way to 6 "tax units" per 200 population.

These tax units can be divided into Gold, Knowledge, or Magic/Arcane.

Diplomacy techs that allow "Government Civics" (at least for Kingdom) ... You could only run 1 civic at a time, and its primary usage is what Percentage of Tax Units you could turn into either Knowledge or Arcane. (normal maximum is 10% Arcane and 30% Knowledge)

Alternatively, tax units could simply produce gold. After all ... large empires need gold (and it makes sense for them to have gold), but large empires researching magic faster is perhaps not as favorable for the Elemental population.

//

Also, City happiness/unhappiness ... the more unhappy faces, the more bad things happen, or the more *likely* bad things will happen. For instance, a City can only rebel/ leave you if there are more unhappy faces than happy faces. (among other things)

There would be ways to reduce unhappiness, for instance buildings and possibly what kind of champion is garrisoned there. And ofc plenty of ways to increase unhappiness, including raising taxes.

Cities with at least one unhappy face would begin to spawn bandits (from the city), and cities with several unhappy faces would be known for spawning bandits, thieves, and chaotic NPCs (perhaps some of them truly "evil" NPCs)

//

For the world, monsters, lairs, to slowly increase in danger regardless of Adventure tech ... just due to the passage of turns and the speed-scaling of the game. (as well as world difficulty)

and perhaps ... even to have these lairs start spawning monsters n baddies when they "appear" ... but not able to be explored or even properly seen until the right tech is researched. For instance, "un-seen" lairs could be a basic terrain tile, at least for those Factions that cannot see.

I think there should be a setting called "Chess Master" ... which is a difficulty of AI which gets no real bonuses, but gets a LOT of time when making AI decisions (like over 60 seconds)

... added to the Lairs, a system environment of Lairs, monsters, and Champions, with most of them killing each other, although leading to producing at least a few high-level Champions over time (that survived the perils, and that may sell their sword to a faction) ... therefore, you can buy a cheap newbie, or you can wait till later to buy a grizzled veteran Adventurer. AND ... they are playing out their lives turn-by-turn instead of randomly wandering :/

(probably built some-what into the Inn system)

//

Specialized Sovereign-only classes that make the Head Cheese have a few special traits (even if its as simple as Spells of X type cost less mana when he casts)

in relation to this, probably a class or profession system that can have some impact on NPC society (NPC interactions, NPC AI Career paths, NPC goals/ambitions, NPC economies), faction economies, and combat.

//

Perhaps ... cities having some "bonuses" to their economy based on surrounding terrain (river = food and gold, forest = materials, grassland = food, swamp or desert = no bonus, mountain = random/ possibly materials, or metal, or gold, or nothing)

these bonuses would just be small percentage increases ... if combined with Taxable Population, Rivers would make the most "productive" populations, due to having more food and *especially* gold.

This could work with a Hybrid economy ... where buildings/terrain/population compliments the economy built by the "resource sites." Resource Sites would still be important. Terrain would give bonuses ... buildings could do a variety of things, and resource sites give raw output.

Buildings can give a pure "raw output" ... only for elites, so its unaffected by population. (like an Archive or Monastery or Merchant or Arcane Lab)

Buildings can also give a "scaling output" ... like 1 knowledge per 200 population rounded up (like a School or a Market)

Buildings can also give a "percentage bonus" ... like most buildings currently operate (like a bank, or University)

Honestly, I don't care which buildings work like A, B, or C ... although I would like to see plenty of buildings in all 3 categories (and also buildings that do something else, like the War Colleges)

//

Have cities be smaller (possibly smaller building squares), and have minimum distance between cities be based ONLY on city walls, and have city wall distance be a LONGER requirement.

Or, to summarize, smaller cities that are farther away from each other ... but little towns could be close to cities (but its hard to justify little towns when a city square is gigantic ... it'd be easier to justify making towns separate entities with different graphics)

Or better yet ... smaller, farther apart cities (that can fit more buildings) AND instead of small towns dotting the landscape, it will be INNS!!! And you can found new Inns (not too close to each other though, and "town" Inns cost gold maintenance u know)

 [/quote]

This^ 

Seriously, some things are just ridiculous. Research should expand upon the world and unlock new opportunities, not game mechanics, never whole game mechanics. 

See here - https://forums.elementalgame.com/387267

It's depressing that so much of what was promised was not offered, but there is hope yet (in the distance),

Paradoxical

I agree with others who were disappointed that B isn't what we got at release.  So, if this plan is what it takes to get to B and C quickly, do it.

Expectations are important. While I like to know what's coming, I'd prefer major gameplay elements be playtested before they are 'floated' to the community.   I was in the beta but don't really think the communication was clear about major decisions.  Not the tweaking or the balancing, but the MAJOR elements.  For example, the stats (we don't have Resistance), the combat system elements (initiative), making the magic sweet not just functional (few buff spells, knowing what spells are on, etc.) 

Keep going; you have some beautiful groundwork now add the fun.  I'd guess most customers will come back in a few months and try again because there aren't many (any?) other games in this genre which have the same kind of potential (that I know of).  The current game really needs to be a lot more thorough to meet expectations.

One thing--the GURPS role playings system is really good at balancing some of these things. I think your proposed initiative might be like it's system, or another I've played in 20 years of role playing, can't remember.  But their system had a great deal of thought and logic in it you might benefit from.

I have been posting since the start, and in numerous threads, so let me just say this.

I completely agree with Tasunke's post #40.  Those suggestions add depth to the game, balance out the resource problems (namely the problem of you the developer's having to give everyone some of gold mines, lost libraries, ect on the map in order for them to accomplish anything) and most importantly, give the game that living world feel that it so desperately needs.

Diversity. I think Kalin was spot on on how the game should evolve with the "A" being the foundation of your kingdom/empire. In this phase, though, I think a lot of diversity should be added to define each faction. Campaigns and stories are great for painting the picture that depicts the personification of the faction.

Faction-unique units, technology trees, resources, and even AI algorithms. Just as an example, the kingdoms have refugee camps that produce extra population and the empires can not use the tile; I think it would be much more interesting to have empires with access to the tile as well, but change the bonus to add materials (slave-labor). Then even refine it even more and have only the Kraxis with that bonus. The Magnar, for example, could use it to speed up the military training.

The other main point, which is being addressed in every patch now, is just installing a strong foothold in mechanics that can later develop into more intricate paths. Be it by the modding community or an expansion pack, the grunt work is something that not only Stardock should enjoy, but us (the modding community) as well.

Everything I want to say has been paraphrased by Gorgon in this thread: https://forums.elementalgame.com/396951

Basically, we don't need more ideas, we need a very smart person at Stardock with an understanding of what makes MoM fun and what makes Civ4 balanced and challenging to draw up a masterplan for how all the facets of Elemental should interact to make a great game.

The problem isn't lack of ideas, the problem is lack of vision and coherence.

Fix the city building aspect of the game. Get rid of it, rebuild it, or just change it. The city building aspect is the biggest downfall so far fo me with this game. Tile caps and POP caps need to go and they are both unrealistic and bad.

Change the food production so every piece of land can grow food except for desert ,tundra and mountains but still have fertile lands that give a significant bonus. Remove the need for placing houses. Cities will grow all the time but have the option of producing extra housing so it will grow faster. Change how cities lvl but have buildings that give bonuses instead of cities lvling. You may have to re-search or have special resources that either well placed cities have access to or a well managed empire.

Cities start off taking up 9 tiles and when they grown bigger they take up more tiles. This would happen automatically so your city will grow and expand and depending which route you take building your bonus buildings what it will look like.

Sim-city style city building in a fantasy TBS based around empires and conflict isn't needed.

1.1 has always been scheduled to come in September; presumably by the end.   As September only happens to have 30 days or so, their offer has not in fact changed one bit from what they originally proposed.

Do not change the city building, I like the way it is now...it is one of the best things about the game now.

After a few hours of playing AoW:SM, I would tend to agree with you.  It felt good not having to worry about housing, food, building placement, etc.  I appreciate that they tried to add some depth to the city building but when compared to other games that don't have it, I'm not sure that it adds much to the game vs. the distraction from the rest of the game and the source of frustration that many players have with it.

^^^

^^^

This is the truth!!!

My idea is separate the RPG component and the Strategy a bit.

Let me use the King Arthur as my example :

I, as a gamer, create a sovereign with the name "King Arthur". Well, I just want to follow the tales of King Arthur and the Knight of Round Table". He happened to have magic (so, my Arthur is stronger than the "Original" King Arthur afterall, as he can "cast" magic spell, just like Merlin)

Now, at the beginning of the game, Arthur is just stand on the vast wasteland. Hope that he finds the holy grail to cure the land. But no more, he needs Holy Grail no more, as he could heal the land with his own magic. So he just create his own settlement. A... well, a house / an outpost. I think that a house / inn is better than an outpost as there are only one man living on it.

Because of the fertile land, people start to come and live in his first settlement. At that moment, an Inn will emerges near his first settlement. In there, there are people who need help. From looking for old relative in the wasteland, destroy the monster lair, to kill spesific monster. By doing the quest, Arthur fame will raise. Then, Bedivere, a wanderer who come to the settlement believe that Arthur will able to restore the land and give his oath of loyalty.

Now, Arthur has Bedivere. Together, they take quests from the Inn to help the villager. It just happen that the Inn has several quest category. the easiest one will called E rank, while the hardest one will called S Rank. When Arthur finishs all his E rank Mission, a special mission will emerge. A mission that will allow Arthur to take the D Rank Mission. When he finished the special mission, he will get good present. Ranging from Gildar, Spell, Equipment, to hero.

Let say when Arthur finished the quest, he get Percival, a hero.

After that, Arthur has things that he must tend on the village. So he let the level 1 Percival to resolve the quest problem

Then, something happen. A group of bandits come to attack one of Arthur's settlement. Without the help from the main army, the settlement will surely razed. But, Arthur has something else to solve. So he just put Bedivere to the newly armed militias he has to fight the enemy.

The above story is talk about the RPG

Now, about the Strategy component

At the beginning of the game, we'll see more RPG playstyle rather than the strategy one. You need to move your Sovereign to other land to conduct diplomacy. Well, only Arthur has the authorization to do diplomacy things after all. For the economy, You must hunt the monsters to get gildar as your settlement does not generate much money. (just consider the monster killing as hunting, as people need something from Spider and wolf body to make something)

But after the first outpost become a village, the play style has change a bit. When the population reach 25, you don't automatically get city level up. You need to build a manor for it. With manor, you'll get extra option for your settlement. Like to build the more advanced unit for your faction (militia). A new method of self defend give you the capability to train people and let them to guard the village to an extent. The Militia is the result of that. But, it is not the only thing here. Some people want to leave, make a new place called home. So, you can facilitate their want by creating pioneer and secure the other land.Then, you'll have some people who want to trade with another village. Plus, with Manor, you can put Arthur to the village to conduct diplomacy. This way, You should place Arthur to the village, if not walking around near place. his role has change from the surveyor / adventurer to the village chief. Well, he needs on the capital village when an ambassador come to meet him, isn't he?

The game style will change more when you have make a palace for your sovereign. As you can decide your fledgling kingdom style. If you want to make a military Faction, then you'll get a Campaign HQ on the capital. Here, you'll able to promote Knight and create better military unit on it. But if you want to play as a mage King, you'll able to create Wizard Tower on the capital.

These special building can only operate when your king is on the capital. With Campaign HQ, you'll able to use your sovereign skills to the frontlines army without even move your king out from the city (as long as the units are on your kingdom influence).  While the mage tower, allow your king imbue / enchant / empower any units on your civ's influence just like in AOW. you can also build a Forum if you want to make a merchant faction.

By this moment, you have no reason to use your king as your adventurer who hunt monsters for Gildar. But don't worry, Arthur has already Bedivere and Percival for that kind of task.

Then Arthur marry a woman. By having a queen, you can let your king leave the capital as you have Queen as Arthur's substitute. This way, Arthur can explore the land again, to do the quest, or lead the Army to destroy the enemy faction. Or, he just stay on his Capital and let his heroes leading the army to the enemy cities.

But, then, something terible happen when Arthur fights the another faction. Another evil faction just come to his capital and raze the City. Destroy everything on it, including the queen. By this time, just like the real life country, the political state of Arthur Kingdom has go into chaos. In order to restore it, Arthur should make another capital, by stay at another city and declare it as your capital.

After this, he improve the capital defend, to make sure that the capital will not destroyed again like before. At that moment, a quest to resurrected his wife is emerge. So Arthur move out to complete the quest

By this ideas :

- You can change your kingdom philosophy (just consider it as government style on the other Civilization Game). From Military Faction, Merchant Faction to Mage Faction with their own benefit.

- Your king / sovereign should stick on the capital as long as he could. Give him some reasons to not explore the land for adventuring.

- Kingdom Influence will become very important, give you a lot of reason to expand it to even the enemy land.

- You will consider the champion as a general, not a companion that follow your sovereign in a quest / battle

- You can only create a pioneer from your capital when it has evolve to a village. Make your capital more important to defend

The philosophy of this ideas :

- King Arthur was... a great hero. At the beginning of the story, he will act as another knight / hero / adventurer. But when he has become the King, he will always stay on Camelot, let the Knights of Round Table to do his bidding. Arthur will only leave his magnificient city when there is a very important matter he should accomplised personally. Just like a major quest or war against the other kingdom. Arthur is a king after all, shouldn't be distracted by monsters and trivial quest. That's why he needs Lancelot and other. To delegate the trivial matters to his followers.