Kemsley

Brad owes Stardock fans an apology...

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Brad owes Stardock fans an apology...

from Elemental Forums

Before i rant let me clarify that i love stardock and have always admired Brads and his companys attitude on many issues such as DRM but i really feel he made a terriable call with Elemental that breaches various promises that he constantly assures people his company belives in. Here are two lines from the gamers bill of rights that Stardock themselves came up with...

 

2) Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

 

5) Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

 

I agree with those statements as i do the whole bill of rights and no one can tell me that Elemental, Stardocks long awaited new game comes close to fulfilling them. Many many people are still completely unable to even play the damn thing and those that can run it are constantly running into bug after bug, the game is broken and clearly unfinished. What really annoys me however is that Brad and his company were clearly aware of these issues as evident from the whole "PC gamer" incident, he was told time and again it isn't ready. There isn't even an evil publisher like EA rushing them to release, they publish there own games and there's no excuse for this. All i hear from the Fan boys on this forum is "GalCiv was the same, they will patch it" and "Stardock will support it, dont worry the game will be fixed", i have no doubt that this is correct but it does not excuse the release of an unfinished and to many people an unplayable game. I waited since the announcement of Elemental, refusing to apply for beta so as not to spoil a game i was so massively looking forward to only to wind up in a beta anyway. The release version of this game barley deserves a 6 out of 10 on a reputable review site (Gamespot have tried to play it on three systems and are luaghably unable to even play it to write a review at all) imo and that's sad because that will stain forever a game that should have been remembered as a classic.

 

Ill wait this out and bear the frustration because i can see underneath is a gem but its a hard bitter pill to swallow, i feel Brad needs to admit he made a mistake and apologise esspecially to those that pre ordered the game. The wait for Diablo 3 is litterally killing me but i know it will be worth it because i trust Blizzard to release a polished solid product, Stardock and many other companies should take a page from there book.

elemental
25,737 views 59 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SqueekyRat, reply 24
I thought I heard the fap fap fap of a fanboi.




Quoting Annatar11,
reply 7
Your right #1 is to return the game. You should exercise that one instead of the continued whinery



Oh the classic fanboi repartee .. this forum is just for elite bradbois only right???

RAT

 

But it is true...if you really re that upset you can get a refund.  I read in another forum some guy played like 100 hours and decided he didn't like it anymore so he asked for a refund.  If it was ok to play it for 100 hours it begs to question why the hell did he think he got ripped off?  Stardock is really good about refunds...to some that is a better option then keeping it.  How that is fanboyish I don't know, its more logical.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

100 hours of play time in a 7-day period?  Dude must not have a life.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Whoes crying out for blood and who is overreacting here? my post isnt inflamatory or offensive just what i belive to be a fair expression of dissapointment.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

If you aren't willing to deal with release bugs don't buy the game right when it comes out. PC gaming has ALWAYS been this way. Where have you been? Personally I am waiting to purchase until I see that all the performance and ctd bugs are fixed.

Reply #30 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 26



But it is true...if you really re that upset you can get a refund.  I read in another forum some guy played like 100 hours and decided he didn't like it anymore so he asked for a refund.  If it was ok to play it for 100 hours it begs to question why the hell did he think he got ripped off?  Stardock is really good about refunds...to some that is a better option then keeping it.  How that is fanboyish I don't know, its more logical.

I think folks are wel aware of the ability to get a refund, to point that out over and over is sillt. That is my point. I think folks make a LOT of valid criticisms and suggestions. To reply to those with the simple repartee of "if you don't love it then GTFO - SD fans only" is at best disingenious. This is a very very common fanboi policy - have the opposition removed; a purge if you will. Indeed, saying "i'm sick of all the whining" is whining in itself. let's get along and learn to cope. There is enough room on this forum for both constructive criticism and praise.  

RAT 

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting alborrelli, reply 19

It's almost as bad as the billion "OOM" threads people make... lazy bastids. 

To be fair to the OOM people, anybody who includes a debug.err file while doing so is providing useful information to the developers even if it'd be better in a single thread. At least they mean well. :)

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Star, reply 29
If you aren't willing to deal with release bugs don't buy the game right when it comes out. PC gaming has ALWAYS been this way. Where have you been? Personally I am waiting to purchase until I see that all the performance and ctd bugs are fixed.

 

Yes PC games are always buggy but sometimes such as with elemental it goes way beyond the reasonable, people litterally cannot play the game exept in the cloth map. I followed the beta and belived from what i was hearing from Stardock and Brad that the game was going to be polished and playable on release, its that faith i put in there words which has caused me to be annoyed.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SqueekyRat, reply 24
I thought I heard the fap fap fap of a fanboi.




Quoting Annatar11,
reply 7
Your right #1 is to return the game. You should exercise that one instead of the continued whinery



Oh the classic fanboi repartee .. this forum is just for elite bradbois only right???

RAT

On the contrary, I've criticized the game quite a bit. The difference is it was rational, and didn't bring up some non-existant clause about the GBOR. It's hilarious how it's considered perfectly reasonable to bring up a line from it that hasn't existed for over a year and beat a dead horse, but as soon as someone points out that there other *other* rights on that thing besides #2 (such as the right to a return, gasp!), they immediately become a fanboy ;)

Grow up.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

I think folks are wel aware of the ability to get a refund, to point that out over and over is sillt. That is my point. I think folks make a LOT of valid criticisms and suggestions. To reply to those with the simple repartee of "if you don't love it then GTFO - SD fans only" is at best disingenious. This is a very very common fanboi policy - have the opposition removed; a purge if you will. Indeed, saying "i'm sick of all the whining" is whining in itself. let's get along and learn to cope. There is enough room on this forum for both constructive criticism and praise.

Yes, obviously it's perfectly okay to point over and over that people feel the game is unfinished, but it's not okay to point out that it's certainly possible to get a refund for those who really hate it. Hypocrisy is such a wonderful little thing. This thread is completely unconstructive.

Reply #35 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Star, reply 29
If you aren't willing to deal with release bugs don't buy the game right when it comes out. PC gaming has ALWAYS been this way. Where have you been? Personally I am waiting to purchase until I see that all the performance and ctd bugs are fixed.

True, very true. But there is point to be made that it shouldn't BE that way. There should be no reason that we have to accept kind of half-complete  product every time. This is NOT a condemnantion of SD or Brad; but rather the industry as whole, including customers. It is simply farcial that we willingly accept broken products and consider it business as usual.

I am not returning my EWOM; I do see the potential in the game. I am simply getting frustrated with the level of acceptance of this kind of workmanship - whatever happened to the idea of quality and a reputation for true artisanship. 

Next thing we know we'll by pants without  the zippers - to be released at a future date. How about an refrigerator that accidentally heats up every 4 hours. Peraphs you'd be happy with the car that only turns left - with promised "patch" in the works.

You are smart on waiting; but it shouldnt be roll of the magic 8-ball to make a software purcharse every-time.

RAT

    

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kemsley, reply 20
I love that when a game is released unfinished and buggy that the folks who can run it say "Chill out and stop crying", good for you that your having fun but a lot of people arnt. I dont hate Stardock, i dont hate brad and i dont want to return a great game. What i do want is that a product that i purchase has a reasonable chance of actually working, i dont feel im being a troll or a cry baby. You folks goin "Waa waa waa they cant make it work on every system" are fools, the game breaking bugs were KNOWN by the devs which is why myself and many many others are a little bit miffed about the whole thing. You cant release an incompleat product and say "Hey relax guys we will patch it eventually, thanks for the cash btw", i know Stardock will patch it and support it because despite my agititation i still belive there a great company. But they have made a big mistake here and just because your experiance is ok doesnt make releasing a shoddy product ok.

Speaking as a fellow miffed person, the problem is that we've been talking about little else around here for a week. At this point we know, they know, the reviewers know, everybody knows. They've posted what they intend to do to correct it. If that's not satisfactory, you have the option to get your money back.

Yet another thread about the launch just doesn't accomplish anything anymore. People want to talk about the game. If you've got feedback on how to reproduce bugs or ideas for how things should work, there's lots of threads where people would love to read it. But at this point all they can do about the launch is not make the same mistakes next time, and another thread about it won't affect that one way or the other.

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

 and those that can run it are constantly running into bug after bug, the game is broken and clearly unfinished.

Wrong! I can run it constantly without any bug after bug and the game is not broken and was stated it would never be finihed. So you are just trolling around like the rest of the trolls looking for your attention for today. Brad doesn't owe me or us anything. Besides he's already given what I consider an apology and made new promises of a better tomorrow.

So go away troll. You've done nothing to help improve the game.

Reply #38 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Storm, reply 34



Quoting charon2112,
reply 6
Jeebus!  How many threads like this do we have to see on here?  We get it...some of you aren't happy.  Guess what?  Many of us are VERY happy.  So do us all a favor and return your game...quietly.


 

You're free to post threads about how happy you are with the game, just like these people are free to post how unhappy they are. No need to jump into every thread and complain about the discussion. Just quietly ignore it and go to threads that match your feeling of the game.

Egg-ZACTLY!

The critic are criticizing the game; not the happy players. Yet why do the latter insist on taking it personally and criticising the critics??

RAT

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Yet why do the latter insist on taking it personally and criticising the critics??

Because the GOOD must alwasy DROWNED out the bad. ;)) You can go with them too. :))

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

Wrong! I can run it constantly without any bug after bug and the game is not broken and was stated it would never be finihed. So you are just trolling around like the rest of the trolls looking for your attention for today. Brad doesn't owe me or us anything. Besides he's already given what I consider an apology and made new promises of a better tomorrow.

So go away troll. You've done nothing to help improve the game.

 

Lol, ok m8 so it works for you so thats fine and all the people who cant play are fools who should get there money back and go away? Thats a great attitude you have there mate, very well thought out and intellignet.

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

But they have made a big mistake here

No they haven't made a big mistake here, you just have a crappy computer that you want them to fix the game to work on. hahahah

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting IBNobody, reply 8
I want my "year of free updates" to start after the game is released in a polished, stable, and somewhat balanced state. 
 

I don't want them to cut their development cycle short 6 months just to give us a year of updates. We lose 6 months of updates!
I agree with you but what is done is done. We, they or anyone else cannot change that. Sad? Yes, it is. I don't deny that. But right now the only thing I can ask from Stardock is to fix what is broken (be it problems that don't allow other players to play the game they bought or game bugs) and gives us that year of free updates. Even if Elemental makes Stardock lose money during that year.

Supposing that I were angry with Stardock (and even if I'm not, which happens to be the case), that would be the time that Stardock would have to prove me that they deserve more of my money. At least in the preorder section. In the worst case scenario, any of my money ever again.

I personally see all this "incident" as something positive for Stardock, as the experience with Demigod was too. We learn more from our mistakes after all. (usually at least, YMMV)

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 44

But they have made a big mistake here
No they haven't made a big mistake here, you just have a crappy computer that you want them to fix the game to work on. hahahah

https://forums.elementalgame.com/393532

Quoting Stardock,

2. Performance Issues


People with awesome rigs are getting crummy performance. This is the next major ‘bug’ on our list, and we’ve made some major headway. Most of the issue lies with the LOD on zoom technology that fades things out as a zoom percentage is reached. As overall zoom range, specific LOD levels, and new tile diesigns are tweaked and added, the game seems to be displaying many objects, in general, when zoomed out. Code is being tweaked to make batching faster and tile designs are being tweaked to simplify better as the user zooms out...

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with you but what is done is done. We, they or anyone else cannot change that. Sad? Yes, it is. I don't deny that. But right now the only thing I can ask from Stardock is to fix what is broken (be it problems that don't allow other players to play the game they bought or game bugs) and gives us that year of free updates. Even if Elemental makes Stardock lose money during that year.

Supposing that I were angry with Stardock (and even if I'm not, which happens to be the case), that would be the time that Stardock would have to prove me that they deserve more of my money. At least in the preorder section. In the worst case scenario, any of my money ever again.

I personally see all this "incident" as something positive for Stardock, as the experience with Demigod was too. We learn more from our mistakes after all. (usually at least, YMMV)

 

Indeed, i dont really expect anything to come of this thread i am mearly venting after a week of pain. The apology i mention is specifically for those who pre ordered the game and are unable to play as i expect they are the most annoyed and the most justified.

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Storm, reply 37

I beg to differ. In years past, and I have been doing PC games for 20+ years now. You could buy a game, take it home and play it for months without needing a patch.  It's a disturbing trend that not only plagues elemental but many of the more recent games that they get shoved out the door without being complete and need immediate patches.  Thank the internet I suppose.

I guess that is true.  I remember buying the first Civilization game and Duke Nukem and never needed to patch. Games are so complex these days though and hardware is so diverse that I don't think those days are coming back. Yeah many console games do it but that is the beauty of standardized hardware and operating system.

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

There is enough room on this forum for both constructive criticism and praise.

RAT

Then practice what you preach and perhaps offer the Forum some of your constructive criticism?

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SqueekyRat, reply 30

I think folks are wel aware of the ability to get a refund, to point that out over and over is sillt. That is my point.  

 

I think folks are also well aware that some people are unhappy with the game...to point THAT out over and over is "sillt".

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

It's a game. It has problems. Make it better. No more apologies necessary at this point.

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Storm, reply 34

Quoting charon2112, reply 6Jeebus!  How many threads like this do we have to see on here?  We get it...some of you aren't happy.  Guess what?  Many of us are VERY happy.  So do us all a favor and return your game...quietly.

 

You're free to post threads about how happy you are with the game, just like these people are free to post how unhappy they are. No need to jump into every thread and complain about the discussion. Just quietly ignore it and go to threads that match your feeling of the game.

 

If I post a thread as useless as "I like your game."...I would expect it to be locked.  If it's already been stated, then a new thread shouldn't be started, that's just good forum management.