Dynasties

from Elemental Forums

This is an exerpt from my full post, but I think it deserves a post of its own:

My absolute favourite aspect of this game is the Dynasties, fantastic!  What I would like to suggest is that when your main character dies (yes, let them die! - in battle or from old age), you can chose a successor - if you don't choose the first in line for the throne, your other offspring may rebel or defect to another faction, plotting vengeance and to capture your throne by force, Mordred-style..  Let the family trees continue in this way - this would make me want to continue to play, regardless of anything else.  I really love this random factor, seeing the different faces that emerge from different unions.  Let it continue!  People often reload saved games if someone important dies, but this would give you more reason not to reload, just to experience the ups and downs of your Dynasty - it's the stuff that creates real and immersive stories within your game.

If your King was to die before you have children of elligible age - you would then need to chose a Hero to take up the mantle for your Kingdom - again, other Heroes may plot and revolt, but I think that this would create some fascinating sagas..  You could even have a traitor in your midst, spawned by your choice of leader and a disaffected rival - sabotaging cities and even plotting to assassinate the new king.  Not sure if this would be possible, but I like the thought of it.

elemental
80,656 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Hear, hear!  I completely agree!  Sovs need to die.  It would make the game sooooo much more interesting for all the reasons you mention.  As it is currently implemented, dynastic politics is artificially gimped for no good reason.   

Thanks for making a great post that succinctly summarizes what I've been feeling too. 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

If something like this was to be added I would like to see it as a toggle option so we could play it either way.. irregardless it is an idea we have discussed (not complaining about re posting as like all good ideas many of us see it) and could add a nice twist to some games.. ^_^

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, nations poofing into ether when your sov or ai sov bites the dust is extremely unsatisfying and ruins immersion. Some good old rebellions with factions vying for throne would rock, too.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah I think it would really add some depth to the dynasties. It already has the whole '...Next in line for the throne...' on their info panels only makes sense that they take over if you die. 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I personally don't want my sov to die. I like the role play I can do with that and it keeps it personal to me. Plus most of the time the random decision comes up with some pretty strange combos as far as look goes...

If you do, do that let me chose when my sov dies and let me design my own kids.  

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

You know, I could buy that the lore says my sovereign is immortal because he's a channeler, but if that's the case then why are Janusk and that random female NPC that I married also immortal?!

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Right now if the sovereign bites the big one then it's gg.  The eligible heir should take the throne and succeed him.  Of course none of the heirs would be timeless and must be eventually replaced so the player still has a very good reason to go the extra mile when defending the sovereign.

It works on paper anyway.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Twohawks, reply 2
If something like this was to be added I would like to see it as a toggle option so we could play it either way.. irregardless it is an idea we have discussed (not complaining about re posting as like all good ideas many of us see it) and could add a nice twist to some games..

A toggle option would be fine with me.  I understand why sovs, especially the player's sov, were made immortal - that whole RPG element would go puff when the player's sov dies - but I also think mortal sovs would be fun too.  The "you are in the game!" jazz would be moot, but it would be replaced with more of a "your family is in the game" type of approach.

One way or the other, I definitely want to see dynastic politics unleashed in this game by removing the immortality hobble.

 

 

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Thanks for your input guys - I'm glad that this suggestion already has some enthusiastic support.  It would need to be an optional toggle, yes - I understand that many players don't want to lose their main man, in whom they invested so much time and thought.  But for me, the story of my Dynasty is the important thing - being able to remember the reign of Kings through good times and bad.  Perhaps a history tome could be written, of all the great achievements, battles, wars, births and deaths, usurpings and treacheries - like a good old Shakespeare play.  This would give the game a great longevity, and write a different epic story each time that you played. 

One thing I have noticed is that the same 'random' offspring are being born - I currently have two grandchildren, married to two identical partners!  Something that can easily be fixed though, I imagine.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this one - either to be picked up by the devs, or by some nifty modder.  I'm guessing that it should be possible..

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

The "you are in the game!" jazz would be moot, but it would be replaced with more of a "your family is in the game" type of approach.

 

I agree and it could be fun to play a game where my Sov dies and then the heir has to ascend the throne.. especially if there was a chance for a faction to try to foist one of the grand kids for the throne... heh heh ahh the possibilities..  That's why  I favor the toggle so we can have depth and choice...

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mortenart, reply 9
Perhaps a history tome could be written, of all the great achievements, battles, wars, births and deaths, usurpings and treacheries - like a good old Shakespeare play.  This would give the game a great longevity, and write a different epic story each time that you played.

Ha!  It's funny you mention that.  I just watched Henry IV (part 1 & 2) and it made me think of this game.  ^_^   I recall Frogboy saying EWoM was inspired by Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice, a series that has a lot of dynastic struggles in it.  In retrospect, I am surprised that it wound up being so limited in the game.   

BTW:  That is a great idea about a history tome!  I wonder if that would be possible to implement?  I mean, even outside of this issue such a thing would add a lot of RPG epic-ness to the game!

 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree and it could be fun to play a game where my Sov dies and then the heir has to ascend the throne.. especially if there was a chance for a faction to try to foist one of the grand kids for the throne... heh heh ahh the possibilities.. That's why I favor the toggle so we can have depth and choice...

Exactly.  Machiavellian plottings throughout the factions would be superb..  And of course, you would get to watch and interact with this constantly changing political landscape, as minor princelings usurped their siblings after their father's death - perhaps even causing factions to split and fight against each other in civil wars.  This could create an epic story not only for yourself, but for the whole game world...

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Ha! It's funny you mention that. I just watched Henry IV (part 1 & 2) and it made me think of this game. I recall Frogboy saying EWoM was inspired by Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice, a series that has a lot of dynastic struggles in it. In retrospect, I am surprised that it wound up being so limited in the game.

BTW: That is a great idea about a history tome! I wonder if that would be possible to implement? I mean, even outside of this issue such a thing would add a lot of RPG epic-ness to the game!

Right, Henry IV is a great example.  I also thought of A Game of Thrones (the only one I've read), when I thought of this possibility for EWoM.  I loved all of that scheming and backbiting, set against the staunch loyalties of the 'good guys'.

It should be possible, when certain large battles and other notable events trigger scripts to say in Year X, the mighty Empire of Capitar defeated (whoever) near the City of (whatever).  Or so and so married the beautiful whatshername in the Palace of where-ever.. the kids they had, their famous adventures... the story would be written for you to read, if the urge took you.  Each event could be compiled into an Index list on the first page of the book (under headings like 'The Reign of King Noggin I, 1066-1142'), for easy accessibility.  Ok, so I'm getting carried away now.  But wouldn't it be a cool thing to have, not to mention a great resource for fantasy writers! ;)

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

I just started the game. I have not had children to create a dynasty. What is the quickest way to do this?

When you recruit NPCs of the opposite gender to your ruler, there is an option in their action icons to marry them (a ring icon).  Not sure if you have to have a certain Tech to do this first, but I don't see why you should..

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting dengracia3334, reply 13
I just started the game. I have not had children to create a dynasty. What is the quickest way to do this?
If your sovereign is female, you're in luck: on turn 2 a male NPC will join your kingdom for free and you can propose to him soon after killing a few spiders (Choose Janusk, open actions menu, click the wedding ring). If your sovereign is male, well, you will need to head out into the wilds and look for a wife. Just explore the map until you see a female NPC **TARGET LOCKED**. Now, head over to her and give her some money to "work for you" (wink, wink, you know what I mean), and after killing a few spiders, you can propose to her in the same way as previously described. Once married, wait a few dozen turns and you'll have your first kid (spending time with your spouse is not necessary because it is a magical mystical world). After you have 4 kids, your spouse is wore out and you'll need to expand your dynasty by marrying off the kids (They come of age after a bunch of turns). Fire up the diplomacy screen, choose "dynasties", and select a random son or daughter of the opposite sex for your child to marry. If it's your daughter, she joins the other kingdom. If it's your son, the other kingdom's really ugly daughter joins your kingdom. They start making babies and the cycle of life continues.

Beautiful, huh?

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

I was thinking (always a risky proposition): maybe the immortality trait could be made as something that needs to be purchased during character creation?  That way people who don't want immortality can spend the points elsewhere, while those who do can purchase it at the outset.  To each his own while keeping it within the character creation process. 

Another possibility would be to make immortality a high level spell.  This also has some merit as it would make immortality a choice as well as a magical goal (you could even make an entire quest out of it!).

As for the AI, perhaps just a option during game creation ("AI's are immortal at start: yes/no").

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

For anyone who has ever played the Total War series, this idea is pretty much spot on with their family tree. I agree that the sov should be capable of dying and a successor chosen. Personally I think having family member be capable of defecting would be cool. In general, I think it would be cool to implement an even more aggressive dynasty system so that not only does the sov have kids but npcs can marry and have families too. Recently I played a game where my sov had to basically kill half his grandchildren because of a war a former friendly state. This kind of brutality which should cause rifts in your dynasty actually did squat.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

This is an exerpt from my full post, but I think it deserves a post of its own:

My absolute favourite aspect of this game is the Dynasties, fantastic!  What I would like to suggest is that when your main character dies (yes, let them die! - in battle or from old age), you can chose a successor - if you don't choose the first in line for the throne, your other offspring may rebel or defect to another faction, plotting vengeance and to capture your throne by force, Mordred-style..  Let the family trees continue in this way - this would make me want to continue to play, regardless of anything else.  I really love this random factor, seeing the different faces that emerge from different unions.  Let it continue!  People often reload saved games if someone important dies, but this would give you more reason not to reload, just to experience the ups and downs of your Dynasty - it's the stuff that creates real and immersive stories within your game.

If your King was to die before you have children of elligible age - you would then need to chose a Hero to take up the mantle for your Kingdom - again, other Heroes may plot and revolt, but I think that this would create some fascinating sagas..  You could even have a traitor in your midst, spawned by your choice of leader and a disaffected rival - sabotaging cities and even plotting to assassinate the new king.  Not sure if this would be possible, but I like the thought of it.

Eh, this [successor system] has been suggested many months ago, but since it's against the game lore [Sov dies = game over], some decent coder will have to mod in this. That would be a very popular mod I guess. ;)

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

I would also like that random cities from a faction you conquered would at some point rebel and become independents with a random character (rather powerful) become the new sovereign for them.  And when I say cities, I mean more than one, and put them close together so they can support each other as if a region of the kingdom rebelled.  Have this happen to the AI as well so you can ally with the newly rebellious regions.. or if the original kingdom isn't fully conquered, they simply revert back to his control. 

The could throw out a few of your 'loyal' units so that you don't lose ALL that you built in that city but also keep some of their 'own'.  

 

Who knows, maybe even implement a thing where once a city rebels they also kidnap (a al "A Game of Thrones") one of your children with the risk of them dying when/if you attack them. 

 

There are so many possibilities, I just wish I knew how to code (if this sort of thing is even possible). 

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

I was thinking (always a risky proposition): maybe the immortality trait could be made as something that needs to be purchased during character creation? That way people who don't want immortality can spend the points elsewhere, while those who do can purchase it at the outset. To each his own while keeping it within the character creation process.

Another possibility would be to make immortality a high level spell. This also has some merit as it would make immortality a choice as well as a magical goal (you could even make an entire quest out of it!).

As for the AI, perhaps just a option during game creation ("AI's are immortal at start: yes/no").

Yes, this would be perfect Rooks.  In 'The Quest for Immortality', you could explore aspects of your ruler's personality, as Arwen had to question relinquishing her immortality to marry Aragorn.  Perhaps he/she falls in love with an immortal man/woman, and must choose the short road or the long one, with all the implications of each.  Sure, immortality would be quite fun, but imagine all the nappies you'd have to change! 8C   You could even go the other way, with your ruler beginning as immortal, but choosing mortality for the sake of his/her mortal partner.  Bring back the romance, I say.. :bebi:   

 

In general, I think it would be cool to implement an even more aggressive dynasty system so that not only does the sov have kids but npcs can marry and have families too. Recently I played a game where my sov had to basically kill half his grandchildren because of a war a former friendly state. This kind of brutality which should cause rifts in your dynasty actually did squat.

This would be great, I agree.  Or at least, your NPCs should be mortal too - or it would seem a bit weird with your royal family coming and going, and the other faces of court remaining eternal.  Whether they do marry and have kids could be random, to cut down on the number of sprogs running around causing mayhem.

 

Eh, this [successor system] has been suggested many months ago, but since it's against the game lore [Sov dies = game over], some decent coder will have to mod in this. That would be a very popular mod I guess.

Yes, I realise that this idea must have been discussed many times previously.  I'm sure that many people would love to see it implemented, in one way or another.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

I would also like that random cities from a faction you conquered would at some point rebel and become independents with a random character (rather powerful) become the new sovereign for them. And when I say cities, I mean more than one, and put them close together so they can support each other as if a region of the kingdom rebelled. Have this happen to the AI as well so you can ally with the newly rebellious regions.. or if the original kingdom isn't fully conquered, they simply revert back to his control.

The could throw out a few of your 'loyal' units so that you don't lose ALL that you built in that city but also keep some of their 'own'.



Who knows, maybe even implement a thing where once a city rebels they also kidnap (a al "A Game of Thrones") one of your children with the risk of them dying when/if you attack them.



There are so many possibilities, I just wish I knew how to code (if this sort of thing is even possible).

Yes, I'd like to see this too.  I think it's a credit to the dev team and the game itself, that they created such an open framework, with so many possibilities.  Whether half of what we envisage can be done, I'm not sure.. but you still believe that so much could be done.  And this is still just the first week after release..!