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A quick note from Brad on Elemental

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A quick note from Brad on Elemental

Edge...network...painful..

from Elemental Forums

Greetings!

I'm pretty far from a good net connection so I'll keep this brief  :-)

Let me say that I'm glad that most people seem to like the game.  This message, however, is for those who are disappointed with Elemental so far.

Stardock is not just a game studio but it is also a publisher.  What does this mean?  Well, historically, the way it works is a game is released and if people don't like it, they're supposed to buy some expansion pack for it that "fixes" things that people thought should be in the original version. 

We don't have to do that because we're both the studio and the publisher.

That means we can release free "expansion packs" for Elemental until such a high percentage of players love the game that only then can we discuss sequels or paid expansions.

Having had the opportunity to finally get out of the office for the first time in months has let me look at the game (and ahem, play the game for crazy amounts) of time from a new perspective.

I should also say that regardless of sales or reviews, our commitment to Elemental will not be affected. As some of you know, most of our company's revenue doesn't come from developing games. Even if the game didn't sell another copy, we would still continue our update schedule. 

So what will be the concrete results of this?

1. In September we will release v1.1 which will be the first major revision to the game that takes into account the feedback we're getting from players. This will be a  pretty substantial change. In particular, character creation, magic (think, shared mana pools), 

2. We are going to go ahead and make a more traditional tutorial. I'm not a fan of tutorials but some of my grognard friends have had trouble figuring out the mechanics which means to me that we have to do something about that.

3. We are going to move Book 2: Magesa out of a future expansion pack and into the base game in a future "mega" update, likely late Fall.

4. As mentioned on the forums back in July-ish, we plan to make a new DVD gold master available to those with limited Internet connections later this Fall.

5. As discussed (I think) last Winter, I will be taking a sabbatical this Fall specifically so I can dedicate time to AI and modding so that others, long after me, can use the Elemental engine to create other things (you will need to know Python to really go crazy with it).

6. I will NOT be ceasing my postings on other forums.  The guys on Qt3 and Octopus Overlords and elsewhere are my friends. I'm no more going to stop posting there then I would stop going out with my friends to movies and other "public places" where, heaven forbid, someone datamining my comments might find a "gotcha moment". Those people are my friends both on the forums and outside the forums. Interacting with you guys is a major reason I like making games in the first place.

7. To those reviewing the game: I would urge you to review the game prior to v1.1. I say this because v1.05 (the release day version) is the version of the game that was originally released and if that version of the game is considered flawed then my view is that Stardock should suffer the consequences for that. We appreciate the kindness and patience many people have shown.  I just think game studios, including Stardock, need to be conscious of what they release and not expect to "patch themselves out of trouble". I do believe Elemental is, by far, the best game we've ever made but I also agree with most of the criticisms I've read too. The state of PC entertainment has changed since 2006 (when we released GalCiv II) and it is our responsibility to stay with the times. 

In short, we love this game. And we love this community.  We're not going to be leaving this game to work on some other game.  We're with it and you guys for the long haul. 

I won't be around to answer questions until next week so I hope this answers some questions.

 

elemental
1,061,222 views 333 replies
Reply #151 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting onomastikon, reply 141
I'm not sure that's the way it works, though. Normally, people buy a game and if they don't like it, they NEVER buy the expansion pack. The expansion pack is for the people who LIKED the game.

It depends.  Sometimes an expansion pack improves a game significantly enough that it's worth giving the game a second look even if you didn't like it the first time around.  Expansion packs are also used to add features that the fan community has been requesting, or to make balance changes.  I don't know how many realize that the primary impetus behind StarCraft: Brood War was to address some arguably significant imbalances that couldn't easily be resolved without adding new units.  Same thing with WarCraft III: The Frozen Throne.  Instead of offering these fixes for free, Blizzard put them in a box and charged you $40.

Another thing to consider is how many times have you seen the feature list of an expansion pack and realized that many of the changes should have been in the game from the beginning and could be easily added with a patch?  I remember in Age of Empire 2, fans were complaining about the fact that you couldn't cue up farm production and had to manually return to your village and replant the farms yourself, which was a real pain in the neck when you were off fighting a battle only to realize that you couldn't create reinforcements because all of your farms stopped producing food while your attention was elsewhere.  I'll give you three guesses what feature was available exclusively in the first expansion pack.

Personally, I approve of Stardock's way of doing business.

Reply #152 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting szeratuls, reply 151

Quoting caeldrin, reply 149


 
 

Cant' remeber of comparing or neither talking of elemental single player campaign. Again you are pointless.

 

 

''Dragon age as you mentioned it has few monsters and creatures cause it is multiplatform. However there are a lot more creatures in that multiplatform game than in elemental. (spiders are nearly 60% of nasty creatures in elemental)''

 

in this regard i see more problem for dragon age(that is based on the campaign and only in the campaign) that elemental,where you can add more variety in sandbox mode,my opinion.

Not just elemental but all this type of strategy games :)

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #153 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting caeldrin, reply 153

Quoting szeratuls, reply 151
Quoting caeldrin, reply 149


 
 

Cant' remeber of comparing or neither talking of elemental single player campaign. Again you are pointless.

 
 

''Dragon age as you mentioned it has few monsters and creatures cause it is multiplatform. However there are a lot more creatures in that multiplatform game than in elemental. (spiders are nearly 60% of nasty creatures in elemental)''

 

in this regard i see more problem for dragon age(that is based on the campaign and only in the campaign) that elemental,where you can add more variety in sandbox mode,my opinion.

Not just elemental but all this type of strategy games

 

well, again and for the last time.....what are we talking about? we have a finished game, a sandbox one with an evident lack of variety.

Now you are saying that this is a bigger matter for games like dragon age than elemental or 4x in general.

Are you trying to recall other games just to hide a big fault of elemental? I repeat that we are talking of elemental not comparing ot to games that perhaps, aren't n the same genre.....

Mods will address this problem?? maybe but NOW the game lacks of variety.

 

 

 

 

Reply #154 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 138
Oh, I was just thinking, there really should be Cities on the tactical map when you're fighting in a siege. There should be City Walls that the player can put units on like in Age of Wonders. Just a thought. It would do a lot for tactical combat I think. Also it seems that units can walk through a lot of things on the tactical map. Like rocks and trees and cactus's. Units should have to go around these things and not be able to walk through them.

 

I absolutely agree Raven....in fact I thought that cities/walls will be displayed on the tactical map in the v1.0 release. This is a must have feature for the first expansion.

Reply #155 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting szeratuls, reply 154


 

 

 

you say that brad  was lying when he said that they dont have to dumbed down elemental because is not multiplatform.

I have said that is the engine and the potential that they/modder can use to add how much variety they want. We was speaking about the engine and what brad said about mulltiplatform limit.

I have take some example because i think that the variety lack now cause they put more effort to make the base of the game.

said that,the game need work and is basic in many features but i didnt speak about this,just the engine and the argoument about multiplatform limit.

Reply #156 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh and just for information,how do wall interact with combat values ?

Reply #157 from Elemental Forums Top

Its always nice to get developer communication but this post does not take ownership of the legions of issues with the current version of the game or the fact that so many people were dissatisfied with the release.

https://www.elementalgame.com/journals

The poll on the official site shows 44% of people 'disappointed' with the game.  That is a lot of disappointed customers.

Also, the release version was *not* 1.05.  That is not the shipping version and anyone that sat down to play on release day could not play 1.05 until like 23:45 EDT.

 

Reply #159 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting caeldrin, reply 159
by the way mister szeratuls,i have to go to buy english dictionary

 

Yes sure, in fact i didn't reply cause it was very difficult to traduce your post from the babylonian language you used to english.

Talking dead languages shouldn't be admitted in this forum

:grin:

Reply #160 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting hairrorist, reply 27
Brad,

 

I have been a very outspoken critic of Elemental, in fact, on the verge of a return.  Today I played a bit more and keep seeing more and more of the game's potential.  Some of the design decisions are incredibly brilliant--I love how cities expand visually, and I love the aesthetic direction your art team chose to take.   I would agree that this could be Stardock's magnum opus with a thorough examination of the core combat mechanics to add more tactical depth to the game.  The more I play, the more I "get" Elemental, and I see the vision popping through.  I still believe it was released prematurely, but looking back on launches like Empire (which every major publication failed to mention was literally unplayable) puts things in perspective.  Elemental needs some significant balancing and interface interrogation, but count me in for the ride.

I look forward to being an active member of the modding community and the future of your work.

 

Illegitimum non carborundum, domine salvum fac, Brad.

Thank you for this post, hairrorist.  It's much easier to pile on than to "potentially" have a change of heart.  I think you are starting to see some of the things that many of us saw early on.  This is probably why there were two strong factions as to the state of Elemental.  Once people take a deep breath and really start looking at what Elemental has to offer, they really start realizing its true potential.  I am glad that you didn't return the game and decided to take a second look.  I am even more glad that you decided to post your most recent thoughts.

Reply #161 from Elemental Forums Top

Difference of opinion, wow, good stuff nonetheless.

Because I know nothing: of programming, business, and public relations; I don't judge too harshly.

Anonymity, entitlement, and the ability to always be right makes for entertaining comedy. More right morer righter mostest correct  omnisciently righteous

Frogboy, stop looking at the internets while on vacation, you cwazy!8P Not to mention leaving your material alone for a while for a fresh perspective. With writers it's six weeks. With programmers it's what, eleven minutes?

Here I will digress

Anyone remember Dungeon Lords;)

This all makes me think of the Diablo2 release(for instance)and how the forums were ablaze with the usual troop of posters going on about this crash and that bug and the injustice. I got my copy at lunch(launch heehee) and had to go back to work, and proceeded to read these posts filling my head with gloom and doom.

Such is the case with Elemental. A day one purchase turned into 'I don't know when'. Any other company, it would have turned me into 'Forget about it'. Anyway I got my copy on the 26th after v.1.05. By the time I got home and installed v.1.06 was out. Coolness.

I installed Diablo2 and expected the worst, I was even running WindowsME at the time(i was a tech and trying it out for my job)but D2 was fine on my system. I installed Elemental and expected the same, it runs mostly fine on my system. With such disparate configurations of various hardware and drivers, I cannot imagine trying to release a PC title.

So far Elemental is playable, has some quirks, as the enemy and I build our cities, my performance seems to drop. After about 90+ turns the drop becomes noticeable(10-15fps guestimate). That is continuous play. I should load them up again and see if it was just the memory thing.

I am having some issues with combat, like killing a few enemies in Tactical, then killing the last retreating enemy with Auto Resolve, and only getting credit for that last kill. Is that an intended penalty?

I don't like Auto Resolve using all my mana either. Since AR is used(by me at least)against a no brainer type fight it should be resolved with melee, not strongest attack(hurl boulder)first. But I know nothing of programming;)

Now I have really digressed

Like Diablo2, I think Elemental will still be enjoyed in ten years, or at the very least well remembered in ten years. Maybe more because the game also reminds me of Lords of the Realm2 which I still enjoy. Unlike Dungeon Lords.

 

 

 

Reply #162 from Elemental Forums Top

Just a quick reply about how the city are growing,i think that building are kind of too small if you zoom out dto fully understand the game,and cause of this i kinda never see what building is where(not that it import much).For me the cities just look like a big mass of build put next to another without real differenciation.

Reply #163 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 138
Oh, I was just thinking, there really should be Cities on the tactical map when you're fighting in a siege. There should be City Walls that the player can put units on like in Age of Wonders. Just a thought. It would do a lot for tactical combat I think. Also it seems that units can walk through a lot of things on the tactical map. Like rocks and trees and cactus's. Units should have to go around these things and not be able to walk through them.

 
I liked when back in the time of only two people on the forum, there was the idea of the physical placement of city buildings being important in tactical battles and the need of conquering the city centre/square to make the city yours, forcing you to conquer first other city tiles until you reach it. I think that was awesome. That made the city tetris uber cool (to me). :pout:

Reply #164 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 85

I don't think troll or fanboy should be thrown around, its childish and solves nothing, other then getting the other persons goat.

Quoting Rune_74, reply 86

Ok you added that last part....what the hell is wrong with you?  I never said it was perfect, I'm actually commenting and reading about ways to improve.  Take yuor childish fanboy crap and go hide back under that rck you crawled out from.  kids.

*sigh*

Just take a bit of your own advice and ignore it, Rune.

Reply #165 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Dale_, reply 135

If you noted the "editor's note", they pointed out MP was not available at the time of review, and that he was quoting the Elemental website's feature: Robust multiplayer.  The reviewer was saying that a shit AI CAN be redeemed in a "robust multiplayer".

Editor's notes, particularly in this fashion, are nothing more than a Cover Your Ass technique used by writers that were too lazy to do the job correctly (if at all) the first time.  It is completely evident that the author did not play Elemental for any length of time, if at all.  He didn't even use original screen shots, he took them all from the official screen shots from the Elemental site.

Reply #166 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh and btw about the walls, why shouldn't they be broken prior to a city capture, this would make archers interesting.

Reply #167 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 150

According to the almighty Wikipedia, the term digital rights management "is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content not desired or intended by the content provider. The term does not generally refer to other forms of copy protection which can be circumvented without modifying the file or device, such as serial numbers or keyfiles." Emphasis mine.

Sure, you need to register to get the patches, just like you need to register in order to post on these forums, but once you've downloaded a patch, there is no mechanism in place to prevent you from copying the install directory and transferring it to another computer.  For that matter, you can go to anywhere.impulsedriven.com and download an up-to-date standalone version of the game that can be installed without restriction on any computer you want.

In short, Elemental is not protected by DRM.

Knowledge is power.  Well played.

Reply #168 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting HozzMidnight, reply 158
Its always nice to get developer communication but this post does not take ownership of the legions of issues with the current version of the game or the fact that so many people were dissatisfied with the release.

https://www.elementalgame.com/journals

The poll on the official site shows 44% of people 'disappointed' with the game.  That is a lot of disappointed customers.

Also, the release version was *not* 1.05.  That is not the shipping version and anyone that sat down to play on release day could not play 1.05 until like 23:45 EDT.

 

 

That might be a reliable depiction of people who have actually come to the website, but if you'll notice it is only just over 1000 people, which is pretty tiny for a poll.  Maybe that is all Stardock has to go on or maybe they also have emails from folks who aren't willing to wade into these heated forums.  I don't know, but 1000 people isn't really accurate of everyone who bought the game if indeed they broke even (as was said at some point prior to release). 

 

Nevertheless, simply going by the poll, that is sizable chunk of people. 

Reply #169 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 150

Quoting Dale_, reply 137Actually, DRM is NOT a specific form of copy protection, it is ANY protection method.  Forcing customers to register to receive patches IS DRM.

According to the almighty Wikipedia, the term digital rights management "is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content not desired or intended by the content provider. The term does not generally refer to other forms of copy protection which can be circumvented without modifying the file or device, such as serial numbers or keyfiles." Emphasis mine.

Sure, you need to register to get the patches, just like you need to register in order to post on these forums, but once you've downloaded a patch, there is no mechanism in place to prevent you from copying the install directory and transferring it to another computer.  For that matter, you can go to anywhere.impulsedriven.com and download an up-to-date standalone version of the game that can be installed without restriction on any computer you want.

In short, Elemental is not protected by DRM.

I'm going to back you up on this. Forcing people to register for patches isn't DRM. It's bandwidth management. The patch servers are for customers. There's nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing stopping me from downloading a full patched copy of the game and installing it on an offline computer from a USB key. In fact, Stardock provides a web site to help me do that exact thing! That's the opposite of what DRM is meant to do.

Reply #170 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Zazen13, reply 46
Very Classy post. There's only two developers I trust implicently when it comes to long-term product Support...Stardock and Paradox Interactive.

 I've been a gamer since computer games were invented, the complexity has increased almost in direct proportion to computer power. I pay to be entertained. Some games can only entertain me for a few hours or days, for example shooters or limited scope adventure games, so I expect a very polished released product. Then there's games that developers like Stardock and PI make. When I buy one of their products I know I will be entertained for months, if not years to come. I am always more entertained by the product delivered over time than I was originally, because they accept feedback so readily and keep improving it, so I will accept a work in progress. 

 

I am so sick of "fire and forget" developers that toss games out there, throw a courtesy release day patch on their gold version and call it a done deal. I am quite willing to play a paid beta if it means my 50 bucks will buy me another year or two of perpetually improving entertainment value rather than a more polished inital release of a game that will never improve.

 

As Froggy alluded to, PC gaming as a platform has changed dramatically. It's almost a niche market now with console game taking the forefront. The single biggest attraction to the PC platform for developers and players alike is the amorphous nature provided by continuous support, patching and expansion. PC gaming allows the players of a game to help continue its growth and design well after release. No formal beta, however long, can ever compare to complete release product scrutiny and constructive critisism.

Froggy, keep making good games and supporting them vehemently as you have in the past and we'll keep buying them. If you don't make a fool out of us for giving you our money we won't make a fool out of you for taking it...

 

 

This.

k1  

 

Reply #171 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 164



Quoting Raven X,
reply 138
Oh, I was just thinking, there really should be Cities on the tactical map when you're fighting in a siege. There should be City Walls that the player can put units on like in Age of Wonders. Just a thought. It would do a lot for tactical combat I think. Also it seems that units can walk through a lot of things on the tactical map. Like rocks and trees and cactus's. Units should have to go around these things and not be able to walk through them.

 I liked when back in the time of only two people on the forum, there was the idea of the physical placement of city buildings being important in tactical battles and the need of conquering the city centre/square to make the city yours, forcing you to conquer first other city tiles until you reach it. I think that was awesome. That made the city tetris uber cool (to me).

Yep, yep! :thumbsup:

Reply #172 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Dale_, reply 131
After reading this thread I feel like throwing up.  To many sickening sycophants patting Brad on the back for a disaster.  His post shows nothing but severe damage control, and point #7 is just disgusting (reviewers should review what's pressed on the disk since that's when the developer says "it's ready", not the game after 5 patches).





quoting post

Let me say that I'm glad that most people seem to like the game.


I think you are mistaken.  Even reviewers hate the game.  I think the 1UP reviewer sums it up:


 this game just isn't fun.


http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3181116&p=1

Call me a "steam fanboi" and call me a "troll" Brad, but you gotta admit, I was right.  
That review was god awful.

I can't believe people actually quote 1up on purpose, they're some of the worst reviewers on the internets.

Reply #173 from Stardock Forums Top

I have to say this is a great post. I've usually enjoyed the Stardock games I've played in the past. While I've been weary of checking out Elemental due to what I've heard this makes me more likely to take a chance on it. I'm a fantasy fan and a fan of strategy games so a mix is always welcome. Next week I'll most likely buy it as this week the gaming budget has gone to Metroid Other M and The Witcher (via Impulse).

 

Edit: Didn't get Metroid in the end so I might end up with Elemental sooner rather then later.

Reply #174 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting jshores, reply 104

Quoting fatindian, reply 98
Quoting jshores, reply 93
The state of PC entertainment has changed since 2006 (when we released GalCiv II) and it is our responsibility to stay with the times.

 

What hubris. 

 

 

 

Psst... 

("Hubris" doesn't mean what you think it means)

 

 

It does. The comment in the original context conveys they did a good job, but the times (gamers / industry) have changed, becoming more demanding. In reality, the state the game was released in would not have been acceptable in 2006, or even 1996. The Hubris refers to writing an apology and punctuating it with a sentence that suggests they didn't do anything wrong, it's really the fault of the industry, gamers, whoever. They need to let go of that pride and fix the product! 

Good explanation, and now I agree with you.

 

Reply #175 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 150

According to the almighty Wikipedia, the term digital rights management "is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content not desired or intended by the content provider. The term does not generally refer to other forms of copy protection which can be circumvented without modifying the file or device, such as serial numbers or keyfiles." Emphasis mine.

Sure, you need to register to get the patches, just like you need to register in order to post on these forums, but once you've downloaded a patch, there is no mechanism in place to prevent you from copying the install directory and transferring it to another computer.  For that matter, you can go to anywhere.impulsedriven.com and download an up-to-date standalone version of the game that can be installed without restriction on any computer you want.

In short, Elemental is not protected by DRM.

 

Thanks for the concise definition of DRM.   k1