A Starbase Guide For Entrenchment 1.051

I must disagree with your assessment of Auxiliary Government being worthless. This upgrade will force your opponent to deal with the SB if they have any intention of taking the planet rather than avoiding the SB entirely and bombing the planet on the opposite side. On a neutral planet, it will deny the enemy colonization rights.

Safety Override Protocol, no question, will devastate an enemy fleet provided they are willing to enter the explosion range. The AI will gladly move into this range and allow you to blow its fleet to oblivion, but a human player that suspects in the least that an Argonev has SOP will attempt to stay out of range and let bombers take it down.

You're welcome to look at and use anything in this thread I did a while back Starbase 101.

 

I'll see what you say about Orkulus. I have so many tricks with this thing in my sleeves that I can't lift my arms anymore.

First thing first, you have some serious spelling issues.  Run your stuff through a spell-checker if you're trying to make a comprehensive guide.  

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you don't know how to use auxiliary government to protect your planets, you're probably not experienced enough to write a guide.

Auxiliary government is the starbase upgrade, among the most important in the TEC arsenal.  It's right up there with security override protocol in terms of importance.  A defensive starbase that's covering a planet must have auxiliary government, it's that important.

If you already have a starbase operational and it's not going to see combat, this isn't a bad investment.  Similarly, for increasing your trade route through uncolonizable gravity wells this isn't bad.  However, you should never build a starbase just for this upgrade.


Capital ships will survive if at full health, and at high mitigation values (which they will have if they've recently taken damage) they can survive even if their shields are depleted.  Soloing the starbase with capital ships is actually one of the counters to security override.  The ones to beware of in particular are the Vasari Kortul and Jarrasul, though any high-combat value capital ship can do it.



Wouldn't blow it against that few.  Always back up the starbase in order to lure in larger numbers of enemies.  People are also very suspicious of a lone unsupported starbase, but give it a little backup and they often charge head-first.  I actually once took out three people's fleets at once with this because they all got in too close.

You can also combine this with an Akkan with armistice for devious effect.  Move the Akkan so that your own fleet is within armistice range, but the enemy fleet and starbase are not.  Activating armistice will make your fleet invulnerable, but the starbase and enemy will be unaffected.  If you blow the starbase, your own fleet will be unharmed while the enemy destroyed.

Don't max out the starbase if you intend to make it a boom-base.  No more than 4 other upgrades.  I also wouldn't go over 2 hull upgrades in most cases if you're getting security override.  There's really no point since you should be using self-destruct immediately against any fleet that's strong enough to take down a starbase of that toughness level.



I wouldn't get both docking booms and security override.  Docking booms implies you have friendly units surrounding the starbase in large numbers, while security override implies you keep you keep your distance from your starbase.  They're kinda mutually exclusive.

I generally don't advise going for a full 8 upgrades on a starbase, especially for TEC.  The upgrade time is actually pretty quick, so if you leave scouts one gravity well ahead to give you some prep time, you usually have the opportunity to add two extra upgrades before they actually arrive.

You can actually skimp on auxiliary government.  The simple reason is that it will take some time for the enemy to actually bombard the planet, and so long as you finish the upgrade before they bomb it out you're good.  Just make sure you remember to actually make the purchase when the enemy moves into bombard position.



Definitely not!  This is putting way too many eggs in one basket.  Nothing wrong with double-factory or double-trade, but getting both is spending way too much money on a single installation.  As well, if you're close enough to the front-line to get value out of those factories, you're probably going to want at least one hull upgrade.

If it's not a front-line starbase, don't bother upgrading it with security override protocol.  There is almost always enough time to implement this upgrade if you have at least a one-jump warning on the enemy's approach.  You can research it once you scout them approaching, and it will be done by the time they actually get there.  Save the money; there's a better than even chance you will never have to use this upgrade, and every penny you can redirect to the offensive makes it even less likely you'll pushed on the defensive.

Against a TEC opponent in the late game, getting auxiliary government online on all your planets is a good idea, since this makes you very resistant to novalith strikes.  It'll still hurt your income, but the enemy can't actually cause you to lose control of planets, which is very important.

Generally you will need at least one hull upgrade, since a smart enemy will attempt to solo this starbase with capital ships, strike craft, or Ogrovs (if TEC).  You need to be able to absorb some punishment, and you will definitely need supporting units nearby to try to lure him in.  Smart players will quickly realize you have a boom-base, so you won't get much out of this at all if you don't have fleet to capitalize on the threat it provokes.



Kol is only useful for flak burst to kill strike craft.  You're wasting your money if you're using it for anything else.  If you want a capital ship for pure combat power, go Sova or Marza.

i was actually unaware that security override protocol also kills your own ships so i lost most of my fleet along with the enemy's when i used it lol

i still don't understand how to prevent or at least make it harder for enemy fleets to go past a starbase and on to the next defenseless planet. i suppose it helps to put it at the rear of the gravity well next to the phase lane, but it wouldn't kill them fast enough to prevent them from moving on and it allows them to just bombard the planet the starbase is at. the vasari starbase doesn't have this problem because it can reposition itself at will and chase/intercept ships to an extent, but the only thing i find thats somewhat useful for advent is mass disorientation, which is expensive

also, is the meteor storm only worth it if i get two levels?

Duh? The last time I've seen, I was kind of positive that Armistice worked for the whole gravwell o.O'

Starbases are not space Gandalfs shouting "You shall not pass!" and blowing everything that enters the gravwell. You make a starbase, give it aux. gov. and the enemy has to take it out to take the planet, that's one. If the enemy skips the starbase, the guy loses all antimatter and 30% (40% for Tec after upgrade) health, meaning the enemy fleet gets severely nerfbatted. The starbase won't stop them from flying by, but it will make the enemy fleet much easier to defeat in the next gravwell.

The end result is, you should always have a fleet to defend with. If the guy attacks the starbase gravwell, you should have your structures placed around the SB and auxilary government purchased - that way he has to attack the SB to take the planet (culture is another story). If he wants to skip the starbase, he will be severely weakened, which should aid you in killing him in the next gravwell.

It's not THAT bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm sort of a spelling nazi myself. I believe that, say, a resume with two spelling mistakes should be discarded, because it is clear the candidate did not take you seriously enough.
However, some people on this and other forums write so horridly, that the OP isn't really that bad .

Meteor storm is still worth it with 1 level but obviously somewhat better with level 2.  A lot of times I will only get level 1 to start with and upgrade it if its likely that they will enter range of it(eg. I have SB at a roid due to small grav well with mass disorientation to keep them still after jumping in).  It is entirely situational.  There is no sense in spending the extra resources unless you are pretty sure you are going to get to use it.  Just having level 1 is sometimes a large enough threat to make a fleet wary of attacking directly(multiplayer obviously because the AI is a retard and will attack anyways).

[_]-Greyfox

@InfiniteVoid; I agree, you could use Aux. Gov't on a Kamikaze Base, forcing the fleet to deal with your SB, and the way I deal with bombers is to have the SB have 8 or 14 Fighters, Plus a few (2-3) Hangars. The Con Yards can also help with AF frigates.

@Darvin3: on spelling I blame the Brain Fart. About Auxillary Government, I agree on second thought that it is better than I thought. However, I usually play against Advent and Vasari, so I have limited experience on TEC mirror match. Upped to 4 stars. On Eco SBs, I usually go for 1 Docking Boom And 2 Hull Upgrades, And I ALWAYS have a support fleet on hand. I use them to Save Logistics, and also as you said to trade across Uncolonizable Grav Wells. I have had an experience where an Eco Base with about 300 supply support w/ only a level 4 Marza held off a 1100 supply fleet because I just produced a lot of LRMs and Hoshikos and kept them alive with Docking booms. The Trade pays for itself in about 40 mins, which is usually enough for my SBs. Also, this frees up a slot for a Research building or Culture center, which I like better. Agreed you need a level of hull for a Boom Base. I keep a Kol (or Marza) To farm experience, getting Finest Hour or Missile Barrage. Sova is good for an Eco Base w/ Rapid Manufacturing. To deal with Orgovs I send in said Kol or Marza, than retreat and go boom. Fighters and HDs are the way I deal with bombers. With Defense build 2 I use my fleet until the SB is ~15% health or I only have Cap Ships left, then move away and go Boom. I always like to have on hand 2 ways to handle an emergency.

@N3rull: You have no idea what I can do with the Orkulus.

I will Probably get advent up this afternoon, and I hope it will be better than TEC, given I play advent about 2 times as much

Whoops. Double post.

I think I have, but I'll wait to see 

I have been improving my skills with entrenchment, and if the starbase has SOP or aux gov, I just bring in 10 Solanus and destroy it. You can kill a combo transcencia with 1 Solanus and a supportive fleet, provided the player is not trying to specifically target it, in that case you will need more!

 

Darvin says that the Solanus is useless, but I disagree. Solanus can be out of range of EVERY starbase weapon or ability (I just looked at Last Resort and the Solanus range matches lv.2 LR range). I micro them like crazy when dealing with an Orkulus. (Though it is important to note that they get massacred against a hangar SB. Just like any other antiSB.)

Sure, they are expensive and have a specific role that is useless for anything else, but they have the greatest weapon range of any ship in sins, a great amount of health, and a high DPS. Ogrovs can beat them in DPS, and still have a good range, but they have almost half the health of a solanus and their range makes them target of abilities and long-range weaponry.

 

I agree with the fact that just about(not a boom base or an offensive base) every SB needs aux gov.

The Orkulus' mobility is a detriment and an advantage. It allows the SB to roam and be adaptable(which really outweighs the bad part), but I have had unfair AI send in ogrovs or solanus and avoid my SB while running around the gravwell and destroying my extractors, labs, and factories. It is relatively easy to send in a small fleet to distract the Orkulus and move it away from the edge, and jump the rest of the fleet in afterwords.

Essentially, you can't.  However, the act of passing through the starbased gravity well weakens the enemy.  This cuts them off from fresh reinforcements and makes a retreat dangerous.  You still need a fleet to back up starbases, which is why starbases cannot be treated as stand-alone facilities.  They must be used with your fleet.



Nope, has a limited area of effect within the gravity well.  This localized effect is very useful when doing armistice antics.



I wouldn't raise the issue if this was a generic forum post.  However, as a guide, higher standards apply.  Spellcheck isn't that hard to use.



Solanus can easily be killed by fighters or bombers.  In fact, any defensive fleet on standby can wipe out these units with ease.  Ogrovs might prove a greater danger, but even then a good defensive fleet can cover the starbase quite effectively.  Their low durability ultimately means if the defender has a way of striking back, he can usually bring them down before his starbase takes serious damage.

My favourite combo as TEC is to use targeting uplink with the starbase.  With this ability, the starbase outranges Ogrovs and Adjudicators.  With some flak and fighter backup, this can make it nearly impossible to approach.



You can set it on "hold ground" stance if you like so it can't be lured while you're not watching.  

The greatest weakness of the Orkulus is that it lacks an uncapped area of effect attack.  This means that, unlike the Transcencia and the Argonev, there eventually comes a fleet that's large enough to simply walk up to the Orkulus and tear it down.  You can't do that with the threat of meteor control or security override.

"Starbases are not space Gandalfs shouting "You shall not pass!" and blowing everything that enters the gravwell."

Hahaha

+1

Starfish are terrible against starbases especially the orkulus.  They are made for multiple targets to begin with so their dps vs one target is already crap.  They are fragile and expensive.  As has been mentioned even a paltry fleet can wipe them out without much damage done to the sb or surrounding structures.  You would be much better served building bombers to take out anything that starfish can take out.

As to the OP, I have a hard time recommending hangar upgrades on a SB unless its an offensive orkulus that cannot be supported easily otherwise.  Sure its nice to have AM independant SC being built but there are generally better ways to achieve the same effect.  As an advent, I would suggest not even bothering with it.  You should be building hangar bays anyways for shield bestowal.  With defensive vasari, they should be building hangar bays too for phasic trap(won't even need any SC then).  I assume under your advent build section that instead of radiances you mean progenitors.  Radiances won't do anything useful combined with guardians.  I generally have a hard time recommending the allegiance upgrades as well.  They are not worth the cost of building a SB and 2 upgrades for econ reasons alone(if you are building econ upgrades then its almost surely a back world).  Trade port upgrades are really only worth it to extend a trade chain. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

lol I just personally created a mod and shared with my friends a mod that allow everyone to fully upgrade every starbase

Although every upgrade to a starbase is beneficial in some way, I see that the trade upgrade to any starbase is probably one of the top upgrades there is per starbase. if you take the income generated from each starbase, you can possibly use the total income generated from the starbase and the trade port to mitigate the loss of income from the fleet upkeep.

Thanks for all the great feedback and discussion! I will hopefully be putting up Vasari and my Big Bag o' Orky Tricks this afternoon. Please continue in your constructive feedback. I am also going to put up a Combo section in the Guide after Vasari are finished.

very wrong statement. Since orkies can move and are often used offensively, they don't have repair bays at hand. Worse, even if they do have repair bays, Vasari ones heal only 15hp/sec instead of 30-40 for advent and tec. And then comes the fact that Orky has no uncapped AOE damager, so it ends up in combat with big armies more often - needs more hit points.
You did give it 4 stars though, quite correctly.

Indeed, without weapons the orkulus is almost useless as a weapon. First two upgrades are relatively cheap (1800 credits) while the last one is more expensive (2700 creds). The first upgrade (disintegrators) also completes much faster than any other starbase upgrade. While it is a great idea to upgrade weapons twice - phase missiles are damn worth the money - the last upgrade is debatable. It gives 20% increase in damage, but costs a lot and it takes away a slot that could be used to save this orky from death or make it in any way useful beyond pew-pewing enemies too dumb to fly around it (without 3 defense upgrades and a frontal deflector/debris vortex, the orky won't survive anything mid-late game; that's four slots already).

Not same as TEC actually, due to phasic trap.

agreed. Colony pods suck. They're the worst eco investment in the game AND takes a starbase slot away. It's quite sh.. .

Not "much less". Less necessary indeed, but chasing enemy siege ships around the gravwell with a starbase is not a good idea. Either you have a defensive fleet and you don't need Enf Loyalty (just as tec wouldn't) or you don't have good support, in which case you should probably not sail too far away from repair bays and hangars and other things the orky is protecting. This is particularly important when you have frontal deflectors, since falling back to repair bays will require the orky to turn and show its back to the attackers.

What? Have you even used it?
Level one frontal shields work for 45 seconds with a 90 second cooldown and reduce frontal damage by 50% (as in, divide it by 2) while they're active. This means a 25% damage reduction over the 90 second cycle.
Level two frontal shields work for 60 seconds with the same 90 sec cooldown and reduce frontal damage by ~67% (as in, divide the damage by 3), which comes down to a roughly ~45% FRONTAL damage reduction over 90 seconds. (mind, with two out of eight, 25%, starbase upgrade slots used up!)

I may be slightly mistaken with the duration/cooldown progression, but the end result is that while the damage reduction is formidable, it does NOT make the orky "invincible", not by a long shot! It also has a major league of drawbacks:
- the research is late in the tech tree
- the frontal shields have a cooldown. A smart opponent will wait it out.
- frontal shields use antimatter. One DA in a right moment may suddenly cause your orkulus to surprisingly... die.
- in protects the front only, which includes:
-- the orky mustn't maneuver too much, lest it will not keep its front to the enemy, taking away at its mobility advantage
-- the orky mustn't ever have to "fall back" (e.g. to the repair bay range), because it will then show its unprotected backside to the enemy
-- the orky cannot let itself be surrounded, which is a major drawback because having enemies around means having more guns firing; since the orky's guns are its only damage dealers, it basically means that choosing frontal shields as the source of protection limits the orky's offensive capabilities.

All in all, frontal shields are GOOD, but it's not "teh shizzz". I'd give it ****.

Once you have a large empire and stabilizers, it's a very good upgrade. If you don't, it's useless, quite obviously. It is also very late in the tech tree AND requires a civic tech first.
I know these are all obvious things ("bah, I *know* phase stabilizer on a starbase is useless unless I have some elsewhere already!"), but what throws this upgrade much further down on "best upgrade list" is exactly the same thing that makes the Marauder a crap cap. It also has a free phase stabilizer (yay!) but it takes 15 planets and a hundred extra asteroids alligned in a nice picture of justin timberlake to justify taking the marauder above another cap in the first place. The starbase upgrade slot can also be used better.

And it's 10 tactical, not logistic slots .

This upgrade is my favorite. It is true that if the orky is left alone against 30 ogrovs or 40 HCs with hohos, the vortex won't do it any good. However, if the orkulus is to defend a planet against a big fleet, with repair bays, hangars and some fleet as a support (or is a part of an attack force) - this upgrade is GREAT. The enemy faces a dilemma: should I focus the Orky or take out its support first. If he focuses the orky, the orky has repair bays, overseers and whatnot protecting its bottom, subverters disabling enemy ships, all making the fight last much longer with more attackers killed and more debris to heal with. If the attacker decides to kill the repair bays, overseers, subverters and whatever else is bloody irritating to have floating around first, this also takes time the orky will use to pound on the attackers and leaves debris by itself .

Bottom line is, if you expect your orkulus to shrug off a late game 1000-supply fleet by itself... take frontal shields instead, it will let the orky survive a few seconds longer. If you plan on using the orky as a part of a bigger "something", debris vortex really kicks ass.

 

That was my 2cents.

PS. Where are the orky tricks you promised? You aren't trying to tell me that those two things on the bottom are all the tricks I anticipated?

Yeah.  I've tanked fully upgraded Orkuluses with Advent battle balls and lost few ships by using Guardians and two Progenitors for shield restore.

Not really; the high cost of this upgrade means that you don't get a great deal out of this.  It's not worthless, but certainly not a high-priority choice.


These really aren't any better the TEC or Vasari variety.  You do have one extra upgrade level, but I have never wanted to spend four upgrade slots on strike craft alone.  Maybe in a solar gravity well where I can have  a cluster of starbases covering each other, but I just can't see doing it in a regular gravity well.


Debatable.  In terms of brute power, it's definitely the best, and the movement capabilities open up a lot of options and make it difficult to counter.  On the flipside, its economic and auxiliary potentials are virtually non-existant and it has no way to deal with massive super-fleets that characterize the late game, making it a much less formidable defensive line.


This upgrade is completely worthless.  Don't waste your money on it.  Not even worth 1 star.


Still useful, especially when faced with superior firepower from the enemy or securing a contested planet, but with mobility on your side it's definitely not critical.  On the upside, it's cheaper to research for Vasari.


Lets you hammer out more hangars with phasic traps, which is nice.  However, if phasic traps take a nerf next version its utility is going to go way down since starbase slots are typically more valuable than tactical slots.


Offensive starbases should probably have overseers on hand if you have the labs to support it.  Very good way to keep them alive while under constructio and upgrade, as well as generally good for keeping them alive throughout battle.


I've never been a fan of this upgrade, and I've never used it in multiplayer. It's not terrible but at that price it's just not worth it.

the phase stabilization ability does not seem to work with a solar starbase

@N3rull: Thanks for the feedback. I got lazy and forgot to read the entity files for FDS *knocks head*. I have also added 3 more tricks for an Orky in the main post . On debris vortex I have never found it necessary for either Offense or Defense. On Defense I have Repair bays, and on Offense lots of Overseers. That said the Upgrade is often good on Offense bases while the fleet is using the overseers to heal itself. I use Phase Stabilizers on My SB as a counter to the fact that a large fleet can come and tear down the Orky. If said fleet comes I just jump in several hundred supply of fleet to destroy and counterattack the attacker. I always keep 2 or 3 "Staging Worlds" where I can keep said fleets while waiting to attack or be attacked.

@Darvin3: On Advent Hangars I can on Defense Eliminate all enemy bombers with 3 or 4 hangar upgrades and 2 HDs. Then he has to come up close and meet Meteor Storm/Mass Disorientation. On Offense 20 extra bombers for your fleet allows you to destroy all fixed defenses in the system free from risk. I ment by the Best starbase that the Orky has the most tricks and Brute force, and It is most versatile for Attack or Defense. It is definitely my favorite.

[quote who="ls612" reply="21" id="2745836@Darvin3: On Advent Hangars I can on Defense Eliminate all enemy bombers with 3 or 4 hangar upgrades and 2 HDs. Then he has to come up close and meet Meteor Storm/Mass Disorientation. On Offense 20 extra bombers for your fleet allows you to destroy all fixed defenses in the system free from risk. I ment by the Best starbase that the Orky has the most tricks and Brute force, and It is most versatile for Attack or Defense. It is definitely my favorite.
[/quote]

 

4 hangar upgrades doesn't leave much room for anything else.  If you add in 1 level of meteor and mass(not ideal generally) that doesn't exactly leave you much room for hp upgrades or anything else for that matter.  That leaves your SB an easy mark for any decent sized fleet.  Even if they had to tank a meteor, they could still finish off the SB in short order.  Plus all that could have been accomplished by drone hosts, halcyon or hangar bays and be mobile, telekinetic push or give shields(thus adding mitigation to repairs and other structures).  I am not saying hangar upgrades are totally useless because there is some utility.  They are not however as important as you make them sound and are near the bottom of the list on a military oriented advent SB.

[_]-Greyfox

Mines don't trigger on structures, so they won't trigger on an Orkulus. They are also phased out until triggered, so they can't be attacked by the orky.

However, this is very close to the first of my tricks that I haven't shared yet. It's the most obvious of them, so some may already have used it and it ain't worth keeping secret. Anyway, what you do is you make one navigator, turn all auto-whatevers off on it except revealing mines (autoattack off, scouting off, capturing off, revealing mines ON) and rightclick on the orky so that the navigator follows it. Then just select the orky and shift-queue it for a trip through the middle of the enemy minefield. The mines will be revealed just as the orky is between them and it will one shot them all instantly.
What makes this trick valuable is that it works (98% of the time) on homing mines. Everyone knows how irritating homing mines can be. You send a navigator to kill them, they boom the navigator instead. Well, if you do this trick, the orky will be killing the revealed mines just before they reach the navigator, effectively wiping the minefield.

This is only true for Psi homing mines. And the Psi homing mines will damage structures and starbases. TEC and Vas mines will trigger and damage structures and starbases. Personally, I think this is an oversight by the devs to not have Psi mines trigger on structures and starbases.

My bad. I never really needed an orky to clear normal mines, I just send a navigator against the regular ones ^^'.
And the homing mines damage structures only if they explode next to one whilst attempting to destroy something else. With my 'trick', they never manage to reach the navigator to detonate. Killing them as they fly by the orky deals no damage, I would have noticed.

Anyway, this is not an oversight. It was intended and it even is in one of the patch changelogs. Homing mines were changed to this behaviour so that planting a bunch of homing mines around a starbase from the other end of the gravwell wasn't the advent's flawless anti-structure weapon.