thats what i have been thinking, is that we are not playing the final game.  i don't understand people... it has been said many many times that the beta's are not the final game.  we have had discussions about

damage types: piercing, crushing etc.  these will make the weapons different.

final modifier balance: att/def/combat speed values are not the final in beta 4.

cost: price is gonna change, something this simple could change many things about weapon choice in the game.

mix these things up and yes the weapons will be very different. they are giving us a great game with the framework for people to make their own game. what more could be asked of?

If you have a fire shard, your fire spells are 2X effective.  Not in beta 4 but in our build.

In our build, swords tend to increase your combat speed but do less damage per hit so your units have to be more survivable.  By contrast, Battle Hammers are very slow but do a lot of damage so your focus is killing them quickly.

So if you go up against one big nasty monster, you'll want to use units with swords. If you're going up against lots of weaker units, you'll want guys with slower but nastier weapons.

But in beta 4, the values are jsut place holders. We don't try to balance items in the public betas because if you attempt to balance in beta, you end up with battles between fans and critics which causes splits in the community.

I figured that the final game would be different in regards to weapon balance that is why I said according to Beta 4. I think the races are just fine and I am looking forward to seeing how effective different weapons will be.

But they're what people have. Tyrion posted feedback about beta 4, after being gone for a while. That's the only build he has. It's not like he can give feedback on last night's internal build.

Because it also applied to mounted units. Maybe that changed, but the last time I made a mounted unit the same rules applied. It seems very odd that the weight of a mace would slow down my horse by 15% a turn in tactical combat over the weight of a sword.

Ultimately thats why I'd prefer to see two stats. One of them can impact attack speed (daggers can stab faster then polearms can), and the other movement speed.

Thanks for confirming this.

I totally disagree with this argument, but its good that you're aware that there is a TON of balancing work that needs to go on relative to the beta4 build.  Very glad you're working on this internally.

id like to point out there is a trained dragon siting beside a lord/wizard inside a castle on your cover !

Yes, but you can get a dragon in the game. 

As I have done closed beta testing in the past, I am quite familiar with large amounts of placeholder data.  Just looking though the XML data shows many such obvious discrepancies that are there for either testing purposes or just for fun.  Like the summoned bears strength compared to other summons for example.  I expect many things like that to change, and thus don't worry myself over them.  Nor can I comment on the mechanics of the current tactical battle system since it has many times been indicated by the devs that they are doing considerable work on that aspect of the game currently.

The lore never did concern me and I have zero problems with a human-centric lore.  It never bothered me in the Conan world, or the aforementioned Martin books, and it doesn't bother me here.  On the contrary, I like that it is different from what seems to have become the formula for a fantasy setting with elves, orcs, dwarves, etc.  I also believe that with the open nature of the game toward modding, that given a few months I wouldn't be at all surprised to see someone come up with a mod that does include other fantasy races. 

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that at this stage of the games development there can be little hope of their being any major changes to the core game mechanics.  That was for much earlier in the beta process when there was more time to take in and possibly implement ideas that were coming forth.  It doesn't of course help though that there are several important differences between what the devs are working on and what beta 4 has shown us.  I would recommend checking out the Elemental Dev Journals area to get some idea of what the devs are planning for the final release.  Still, I don't think such posts should be taken in an entirely negative light either as they raise some interesting points that may be something to consider for the future.  Also, it seems to be true that in many such cases here, these posts are made by folks that are genuinely excited about the prospect of their finally being another 4X strategy game that's fantasy based, and want to see it succeed in all possible ways.

I do like the idea of Wargs adding more to attack, while Horses could move a little faster. Additional variation between the two available mounts would be nice. Cosmetic differences are one thing, but a statistical difference makes sense when the change is something as stark as riding a carnivore instead of an herbivore. Of course I am also of the opinion that there should be differing mounts within the two categories. Not every foal is cut out to be a warhorse. Heck, I'd like to see a chance for the biggest meanest warg mounts to take a bite out of you and cost you a few HP every now and then.

And it would seem more than plausible that Balancing of weapons and armor, building outputs(Research/Gold/Prestige), Map based resource levels etc. etc. etc. etc, can, and better be, an ongoing process and can be done quite neatly over Impulse. 

Also, given that E:WoM will provide players MP there will always be someone griping about this weapon vs this armor... ad infinitum. What I can't wait for is when they open the resource sharing section, beyond Maps, in Impulse. Then we will get some seriously good Fan made stuff, that can and will, make available the differentiation the OP seeks under all aspects and in-game based materials and assets.

When 1.0 arrives, first thing I am going to do, to Test, is cast "FireGiant" and see if I get a Troll. Then I will create a unit and see if I can Way Point them into the front lines from a City.

Those will tell the tale... LOL

So let me get this straight. A beta tester gets on these forums and gives input in hopes to improve the game and the dev basically says too bad - we aint changing it go play another game. I bet your one of those "can i have ur stuff" kinda people.  More than once I have seen that same response from frogboy. Sure you may not change everything the poster said - but why come here with a sharp quip and dismiss the poster. He has some good points as others have mentioned. Sorry it is just an arrogant stance that you have taken. I am concerned less about whether the points the poster is making are legitimate concerns or not - I am more dissapointed on how if you aren't a fan boy then you get no air time on these forums. 

As you can see frogboy - according to this thread - it has sparked a discussion on the OP's points. So obviously your the one in the minority? Go play civ? By no stretch is the OP trying to make the game like another game. He is just wanting it to be fun and include choice and variety. Tell him to go play another game? If I had seen a post from a dev like this months ago I would have never preordered.

Months ago was a whole different world.

That is something that a lot of people seem to not recognize. 

It would seem obvious that the OP got his "air time". Logic would dictate, especially at this late stage, that a Lock Down has to be done so the Disks can actually be made.

Frogboy has stated over and over how much he appreciated the Testers feedback going back 12-14 months.

But short of being a "Fanboy" myself, as anyone who thinks the game will be OK is called, we are at the "wait and see" stage.

This was a Beta Test and the Test has ended!

Wow, talk about arrogance.  Do you realize that just because a beta tester says something over Frogboy or another Developer it doesn't instantly mean the beta tester has a valid point.  He's not creating this game and, I'm willing to bet, he doesn't speak for every single customer.  What exactly gives a beta tester, even a group of them, such exalted status?  Oh wait, that's right, you likely share the same opinions and damn what anyone else (be it other beta testers or the developers) may think.

 

Really?  Less than two full pages of discussion in a thread and the minority party in the thread is instantly a minority amongst the community at large?  You should go into politics, they love people with math like that.

Its not about invalid or valid points. You miss the point entirely. Its about allowing freedom to express opinions in a forum environment without bashing their topics. From a dev I think its unprofessional. Only bring it up cause he does that on several posts in these forums. On one hand he exalts the beta testers as a great help to the process but on the other hand he picks and choses. I think to automatically write off a poster points and tell them to play civ5 is about the lamest thing. I don't think every point he makes is valid - because its not about that - understand? I bring up the fact that other people agree with the OP. Despite it being a majority or a minority that has no significance. Its not about numbers its about respecting every voice.

For example in another thread someone gave their opinion about MoM's superior tactical battles to Elementals, the dev made him feel silly to the point that the poster felt he had to apologize to the point of groveling. https://forums.elementalgame.com/390127/page/2/#2710999

I think you misunderstand what Frogboy was saying in the post you linked. From what I gleaned he was saying "Is this really the first time you felt the need to bring this up?" because at the point that that thread, and this one, were made the beta build was eons beyond the internal build, and the internal build was about to go gold.

It is much akin to saying "You know, that would have been a great thing to bring up about a month or two ago. . ."

It's a valid question. Did the person in question address his grievances back when they were actively soliciting information from a fairly current build for proper implementation? If the answer to that question is no, well then... I guess they should have, right?

A month, two months ago, that was an entirely different world. That's where the beta testers make a huge impact in the growth of a game's development, because that is what they're there for. At this point in time you are using a build that is lacking some functionality, various factors are filled with simple placeholder data that is dramatically different from the final build, and other similar issues. At this point, not a lot is going to change, because you're not playing the same game that's being released.