You're really grasping at straws here. When's the last time you saw a vegan/vegetarian celebrity chef? Michelin star chef? You could easily google for the first one. I googled the second one and there are no Michelin star vegetarian only restaurants.

Is a guy who plays Halo 3 seven hours a day more of a gamer than someone who plays a game from every genre one hour a day? Maybe, maybe not. Breadth and frequency obviously factor into the discussion.

You're completely free to call yourself an avid reader after having read the Twilight series back to back at least once a week over the past year. Technically, it's true. But I don't think our conversations would last very long.

Oh, so now it's chefs? Funny, your original analogy was "lovers of fine cuisine." And they have to be celebrities, too? Oh, I forgot, you can't be a good chef unless you're famous and have a TV show.

And again, since when do you have to play all the AAA titles to be a gamer? If someone doesn't like the Fallout series and skips New Vegas; "Oh, I'm sorry, you don't have enough breadth to qualify as a real gamer, you're just a casual gamer."

Except you wouldn't be skipping just New Vegas. If you actually listed all of the Steamworks games, your last point wouldn't be very effective.

The key point is this: I will play every game you play, and more. I judge games based on their merits as games, not whether they support some future monopoly, and not based on whether or not the CEO of the company is a Republican or Democrat, and not based on the fact that one of the art developers was convicted of manslaughter. I play games, and judge them based on their merits as games. Unfortunately, you can't say the same.

Yep, if they were as honest as CliffyB instead.  But that kind of honesty doesn't sell big numbers. ;)  And it's a moot point anyways, since it is possible to pirate a steamworks game, a SP game more so.

I'm not a "true" gamer anymore?

Er, sorry? I'll just hang out with the "fake" gamers over here. : )

Cooking, travel and twilight. I gotta say, this is the strangest of the anti-Steamworks threads.

It's all DeCypher00's laughable analogies. Don't forget cell phone stores too, from the other thread.

Yeah that was a BS statement. Glad someone pointed it out. I am speaking as a gamer who uses steam... sometimes. True gamers, to me, is anyone who plays a game and enjoys it and would like to play more games.

Impulse Reactor doesn't have a single killer feature everyone wants to have. It may have things that are on par with Steamworks but not on release. It takes time for such an service and many many updates. The only selling point Wardell uses is, that it isn't bundled with a storefront, unlike Steamworks. But that's actually something publishers like, they love to have access to this big audience of potential customers.

I don't think there will be one single major AAA title preferring Reactor over Steamworks or GfWL.

Valve's Gabe Newell actually is a Democrat.

Indeed "true" gamer is a silly comment, which is why its well used in this case. Everyone seems to have thier own definition of 'gamer' and since it has changed in someway consider themselves to be "pure" and thus "true". I've seen every kind of gamers apart from casual gamers (I don't really know any so who knows) call themselves 'true' gamers.

My comment which I explained later (the first one was a bit obscure really...) is that steam has a huge amount of awesome in its databanks. If you don't do steam you don't get that awesome - this only matters if you consider such gamers to be important (but the people who play them think they are, thus 'true gamers'). You are going to miss out on some stuff and because you missout people are going to be like "You didn't play X because you don't like steam? WTF?"

(Thats right, its perfectly viable to be a gamer, even a sexy gamer with lots of chest hair, and not have steam! The horror!)

So, your point is to buy PS3 version just to fuck Steam?

Not supporting "endangered" PC gaming and encouraging console mass market . Far worse "sin" than buying something with Steamworks integration for me, to be honest.

Also, I'm totally fine with Steam. They have probably the best service today available on PC. I hate much more fiercely GFWL, which you guys seem love so much cause obviously Microsoft is not evil like Valve.

Mafia 2 looks simply Amazing. It's the other big release I'm looking forward too next month. Everything in the game world is physically represented the right way. Wood splinters like wood, glass breaks like glass, tiles chip off of walls when you shoot them, you can shoot out the tires on cars....man i can't wait.

Let me be clear here that this is my personal opinion alone.

On principle, yes I would rather buy the PS3 version rather than being forced to use Steamworks.  To say I'm not supporting PC gaming is nonsense.  I spend more on PC games than console games hands-down, with the great majority bought from Impulse.  I personally feel vendor-neutral solutions like Impulse::Reactor are far more valuable to PC gaming as a whole than locked-in solutions.  I will put my money towards the better one, which I do.

Not really sure what your point is.  I don't think Microsoft or Valve is "evil" in any type of way.  To say a business is "evil" in that manner is quite silly honestly.

Right, that very Impulse Reactor not yet available for developers/publishers.

And will probably have a big advert for the companys other stuff on it since you can skin it lol.

Common Stardock!  Please win some for Reactor.

But being forced to use PSN or Xbox Live is particularly better?

Consoles are a closed platform entirely. The PS3 version will do what Sony allows, when and how Sony allows it. You're flat out not allowed to compete with PSN if you want to make a PS3 game.

Steamworks on the other hand is simply the best offering in an open market. Valve can't force companies to use it, and other companies can create a competing solution (as Stardock is doing). Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how buying it for a locked down console is better. You're in effect saying "I won't buy Steamworks games, but I will buy something even worse for competition."

Doesn't make any sense to me, at all.

But there is competition between consoles. Depending on the game you can choose to buy it on the Xbox 360, the PS3, or sometimes the Wii. Yes, there are exclusive games for each, just as there are exclusive games for Steam, Impulse, etc. Granted, it's not quite the same kind of competition, but there is still competition.

Interesting. So Stardock employees actually have to buy games on Impulse with their own money? At Valve they get so called Steam master accounts which are worth about $15,000 with every single game on Steam unlocked.

I'm sure Stardock employees get a discount of some kind or a discount card. I know back when Stardock did PAX I saw someone with a video and they bragged about having a %20 off discount card.

SD folks get a big discount. Only the few lucky people who work with testing the games for distribution get 'em for free (and usually from the publishers that they deal with).

They were just passing out the 20% off cards to anyone who stopped by to chat, basically. I ended up with like 10 of them or something.

omg steam not getting it now! jk.

i have no problem with buying Values OWN games from steam but nothing else. team fortress 2 is rather addicting but steam hates my net when i am capped.

Apples and oranges in regards to the topic of discussion here.

How long are those good for? Any chance you still have one you don't want?

Nope, don't have any left. And no, I didn't use 'em all. Gave out a bunch on IRC to sweeten deals for people who kinda wanted to get something but wanted to wait for sale. DA:O Collector's edition was a popular one 'cause that 20% shaved off a lot