Testing changes made to Capital Ships

Let's get all fifteen capital ships done and test it on the weekend!

I'm employed now (yay) so I won't be available during the weekdays anymore (boo), though I will drop by the forums at least once a day after work

Thanks myfist0, didn't even know about that....your links should make things a lot easier

The Weebly is brand new. I got tired of the forum booms trying to edit pages so I first started using a friends web space then moved to the weebly free hosting.

File sizes are up to 10mb I think.

I will try and keep up on mirroring for you and feel free to put the link in the main post.

Now you buff Kol....

Thanks myfist0!  I think I will implement your suggestion about the change log when there is a second version...I'm new to this so I really appreciate your help

Will you be online to test this?  If so, when?  My attitude to the community patch remains the same as it was- if the multiplayer community can produce a group of 8-10 players who are willing to put enough time and effort into it, then it will work.  If not, then no.  If you are going to lead the patch you will have to be online regularly at specified times for long hours of testing, is that a commitment you can make?

While I appreciate the spirit behind the changes you've made, many of which differ in detail from ones previously discussed but are along the same general lines, the alterations to capital ships are very much the easiest part of the patch.  After Scramble Bombers, the pirates are the focus of most complaints- this is the pirate mod I made a while ago: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-44dfee48.html  Is that compatible with the direction you want to go in?  Can it be integrated without problems?

One comment I would make on your capital ship changes is that I'm not sure that you have correctly understood how armour works in the game, though this does not necessarily imply that your change to the Radiance is wrong.  I suggested adding a shield regeneration aspect to Animosity, so that damage could be converted into shield in the same manner as the antimatter conversion passive from the armour.  This would avoid the aspect of your change that would make the Radiance the heaviest armoured ship in the game by a distance- which is not supported by the faction tendencies. 

Your rework of the Jarrasul and the Radiance could be interesting.  The rework of Scramble Bombers is one method of achieving an objective that I support, but is it generally supported?

I will be available most of this weekend...Saturday and Sunday afternoons/nights will be best, the things I have to do this weekend don't have to be done at fixed times so I'm pretty flexible...

I agree completely, but I'm thinking that they needed to be done first, as they definitely needed to be changed and may render other changes unnecessary....for example, lets say its established that "oh, phase missiles are soooo OP against caps"...well right now that may be very true, and maybe PMs need to be nerfed...or maybe if caps were more valuable, then PMs will suddenly be deemed perfectly acceptable...PMs don't have to be changed to balance the game, but the caps still do...just one example...

I've seen a lot of complaints about this as well...on one hand, it is usually only relevant to SP....but on the other hand, it is perfectly in the realm of possibilities, so why not improve it?  I have not looked at your mod yet but I agree with you that pirates do need to be changed...I downloaded your mod and when I have time will definitely try it out in SP...I don't know when pirates will be focused on, but they are definitely an element that needs to be fixed...

This is my understanding of armor...the expression 1/(1+.05*armor) is used as a multiplier against incoming damage...this approximates to 5% less damage per armor point for low armor values...however, each additional armor point provides less and less of a bonus, so 20 armor does not remove all damage but rather halves it...

A linear bonus of 1/2/3 armor would not provide a linear bonus in damage reduction, which I felt made abilities like energy absorption and Heavy SC weak at higher levels...2/4/6 isn't linear either but at least it provides more of a bonus...

I like this idea a lot...I want to test out animosity (just to see if it works) but I think its going to need a second buff...and I think your idea here is the best...I was originally in favor of a debuff effect on affected ships but shield regeneration is probably better...

I agree...unfortunately, the ability does add armor...the less changes on a conceptual level, the more likely this mod will become popular and accepted...some broken things like animosity are going to have to be changed, but if possible I think it's best to leave the concept unchanged and rework the numbers to balance it...

Now, if animosity does prove very viable (dependent on a second buff), then perhaps increasing the antimatter regeneration on energy absorption would be a better change than an armor increase...you are right, armor simply is not an Advent thing...

This mod will be used by more single players than multi-players, sorry to say. I would love the pirates to be toned down in this as well.

I tested the Kol change. It seems not too OP as I send it into a largely fortified terran, with like 10+ militia ships, and it did almost die

Okay... seeing as there hasn't been much progress in the other thread, I'm going to suggest a general change-list for the remaining six capital ships.  Take them or use your own as you will, but seeing as the remaining six are among the weakest I'd like to see them at least get something before we do some testing.

Marza:
Incendiary Shells:  Damage increased to 4/8/12,  now causes 2/4/6 antimatter loss per second

Vulkoras:
Phase Missile Swarm:  damage bypasses shields; max targets 24 at all levels (from 3/5/7); damage changed to 100/175/250 (from 200/400/600); area of effect changed to 3000/4000/5000 (from 5000 all levels)

Assault Specialization:  Phase Missile Damage bonus increased to 120/240/360 from 60/120/180

Revelation:
Guidance:  Target receives +5 antimatter regeneration for the duration (total of 75/150/225 antimatter regenerated per use)

Clairvoyance:  Friendly units in the target gravity well receive reduced bombard cooldown against planets; bonus improves at each level.  Can now target planets you currently have vision of (so as to provide the siege bonus)

Rapture:
Reduce antimatter cost of Vertigo to 50 and vengeance to 50. Reduce the cooldown of vengeance to 25 at all levels from 30/35/40. Reduce the antimatter cost of domination to 100 from 150.

Dunov:
Shield Restore:  Can now target self.  Sets the target's shield mitigation to 90% for a 10 second duration (does not stack with any other benefits).  Reduce antimatter cost to 45 from 65

EMP:  Reduce antimatter cost to 80/70/60 from 100/90/80, reduce cooldown to 30/25/20 from 50/45/40

Magnetize:  Reduce antimatter cost to 55 from 75.  Disables antimatter regeneration for the duration.

Antorak:

Distort Gravity:  Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds (from 45), decrease antimatter cost to 40 from 65, raise area of effect to 7000 from 5000.

Subversion:  Reduce antimatter cost to 50 from 100 at all levels, increases cost of planetary development upgrades by 10%/20%/30% for the duration.

These are more or less off the top of my head, but if we could get some changes for every capital ship going into the weekend, I'd love to have a few games.

P.S:  Let's get a time tomorrow night to go online and play with this.  If possible, I'd like to play with some custom maps: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/365777.  I get far too few opportunities to play with these.

Thanks Darvin!  So that all 15 capital ships can be tested this weekend, I have updated all links to the latest version of the mod...this includes the first release and then additional suggestions made by Darvin...IF YOU HAVE NOT DOWNLOADED THE MOST RECENT VERSION PLEASE DO SO...below is the current change log:

Official Change Log of Project Equilibrium

v0.11 -- Released 7/10/2010

Capital Ship changes

-Marza

--Incendiary Shells
---Damage per second increased from 3/4.5/6 to 10/20/30

-Vulkoras

--Phase Missile Swarm
---Number of max targets increased from 3/5/7 to 24
---Damage changed from 200/400/600 to 100/175/250
---Range changed from 5000m to 3000/4000/5000

--Assault Specialization
---Damage bonuse against structures increased from 60/120/180 to 120/240/360

-Revelation

--Guidance
---Reduces antimatter costs of target's non-ultimate abilities by 40%
---Can be used on self

--clairvoyance
---Duration increased from 90/120/150 to 90/180/270

-Rapture

--Vertigo
---Antimatter cost reduced from 75 to 50

--Vengeance
---Antimatter cost reduced from 70 to 50
---Cooldown reduced from 30/35/40 to 25s

--Domination
---Antimatter Cost reduced from 150 to 100

-Dunov

--Shield Restore
---Can now target self
---Antimatter cost reduced from 65 to 45

--EMP
---Antimatter cost reduced from 100/90/80 to 80/70/60
---Cooldown reduced from 50/45/40 to 30/25/20

--Magnetize
---Antimatter cost reduced from 80 to 55
---Max number of targets increased from 8/12/16 to infinite

-Antorak

--Distort Gravity
---Cooldown decreased from 45s to 30s
---Antimatter cost decreased from 65 to 40

--Subversion
---Antimatter cost reduced from 100 to 50


v0.1 -- Released 7/8/2010

Capital Ship changes

-Skirantra

--Scramble Bombers
---Duration changed from 120s to 60s
---Cooldown changed from 35s to 24s
---Antimatter cost changed from 50 to 45/50/55

-Sova

--Heavy Strikecraft
---Armor increase changed from 2/3.5/5 to 2/4/6
---Phsyical damage increase changed from 12%/24%/36% to 15%/30%/45%

--Missile Batteries
---Cooldown changed from 35s to 35/30/25

-Jarrasul

--Colonize
---Temporarily adds 1/2/3 constructors to planet instead of reducing structure build time
---Duration changed from 240/480/720 to 720s

-Kol

--Adaptive Forcefield is now a passive ability

--Flak Burst
---Damage changed from 30/45/60 to 40/50/60
---Range changed from 2400/3000/3600 to 3600m
---Cooldown changed from 12/10/8 to 10s

--Gauss Rail Gun
---Damage changed from 325/650/975 to 300/450/600
---Target's max speed changed from -100% to -50%
---Target now has an increased weapon cooldown of 20%
---Antimatter cost changed from 75 to 25

-Radiance

--Energy Absorption
---Armor increase changed from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6

--Animosity
---This ability was significantly reworked to make it usable.  The file AbilityTaunt applies
the buff BuffTauntSelf to the Radiance.  BuffTauntSelf affects all ships in range with the
buff BuffTaunt.  Both of these buffs were changed from instant actions to periodic
actions.  BuffTauntSelf is reapplied ever 4s so that ships entering the area of affect
during the ability also are affected.  BuffTaunt is reapplied every .020s, making it
(hopefully) impossible for a human player to change the orders of ships that are
force attacking.  This ability has no max # of targets, and now affects strikecraft as well.

Five Things:

1) I strongly think that incendiary shells needs a secondary effect, since we have to balance it on the presumption it's being used early-game, meaning it won't scale at all into the late game without some additional factors.

2) The damage reduction I gave to phase missile swarm was predicated on the presumption that it was getting a damage buff from being made shield bypass.  The damage should probably be 200/350/500 if you aren't going to implement that.  I also forgot about its antimatter cost last time.... I think 70 is more appropriate than 90, but its long cooldown probably should remain as its limiting factor.

3) I felt antimatter regeneration was a better purpose for guidance; what you've done makes it too similar to flux field.  While it's true we do have some abilities like scramble and anima tempest, I feel we should avoid overlap where at all possible.  I also feel strongly it should not target self.  This is an ability that's about boosting another capital ship, and unless you sink money into having two Revelations (which is fair; twice the price), I personally do not want to see guidance fueled reverie.

4) I think the Dunov's shield restore needs to grant a secondary buff; again, because it doesn't not scale.  Additional damage reduction would be good if we can't modify mitigation.

5) DO NOT change the target count to infinite!  Remember this ability is instant-kill to all nearby strike craft, and the target takes 25 damage per SC killed.  Even a mere 10 squads would give you 90 strike craft.  That's about 2250 damage.  Late game, this could turn this ability into a nuke and true SC slaughtering ability.  I do not believe we can make this ability scale indefinitely, which is why we need to approach from an alternate angle.

PS - what times are you guys available today?  I'll be available to play in about an hour (about noon PST, which is 3:00 EST, and 8:00 GMT)

I was just playing around with this mod a bit to see how it played.  Magnetize does not seem to be working.  It just shows up as an interrupt, but is no longer sucking up strikecraft.

You going to join us this evening Cykur?  You'd be most welcome.

I'm online right now, if anyone else is interested

Reducing EMP Charge's AM costs and cooldown isn't going to help it too much, if at all. EMP is mainly useful for dealing shield damage, which means after one shot, most of the enemy's ships are going to have 0 or very low shields. This is similar to the AM removal; only one blast is necessary to cripple most frigates' shields and AM. What I recommend is instead adding additional debuffs to enemy ships within the blast radius- preferably a 4/8/12% shield migitation reduction or an increase of 15/30/45% weapon cooldown. Possibly both. ^_^ However, the duration of the debuffs would have to be short enough to be worth firing off another EMP charge; 5/8/10 seconds at most.

Also, GRG still seems far too weak. Either increase the damage far higher (And revert AM costs to 75), or drastically reducing cooldown would make the Kol far deadlier. For the latter, a cooldown decrease from 6 to 2 seconds would at least allow the Kol to deal some sort of damage. It still seems like a brick, and not much for much fleet support.

I'll see about downloading this patch and helping with it, if needed. I have very little time for SOASE nowadays, but I'd like to help if possible.

Darvin I read your post and, I agree with you at least conceptually on most things...the problem is, I did all those changes last night based more or less solely on your suggestions....some of the things are second buffs that very much change the ability while other things I simply did not know how to implement...hopefully we can still get something out of testing them all, I will admit the last six ships were rushed but I felt you were right, it would be nice to at least test something....

Fair enough; I suspected that was the case, I was just bringing up that these were major points.  I think most of these turned out well (though we didn't test the Revelation).  That said, I was pleasantly surprised by how powerful Phase Missile Swarm was.  If the Vulkoras wasn't so easy to kill, that ability would be totally devastating.

It's already the Dunov's strongest ability, so it didn't need much changing to begin with.  I thought these things did improve it, and I'm happy with the ability now.  I'd sooner turn my attention to the other two.  That said, I'm not against buffing it again if we table something reasonable.

Here's the problem; we tested that and I'll agree that level 1 and level 2 GRG were very weak and ineffective.  I then hit level 3 GRG and it was doing its job just fine (similar to the old flak burst).  Then I hit level 6 and the floodgates of pain opened and my Kol was simply spitting constant streams of damage in the enemy's general direction.  The new Kol still suffers from the old Kol's problem; it sucks at levels 1-4, starts to mature at level 5, and suddenly becomes a titan at level 6.

This ability definitely still needs work.  I found the cooldown was not an issue, and unless I had Finest Hour running or was in a solar gravity well that even the 25 antimatter cost of the new GRG would deplete me very quickly.  The ability still needs work, particularly at level 1 and 2, but I'm hesitant of passing it too many buffs that would increase its power at level 3.

It's a better brick, but I'll agree that it's still a brick.

The thing is, the Kol was never a ship for fleet support; none of it's abilities have been area of effect or intended to help other ships, and I don't think we should change that now. What it has to be is the strongest single fighter in the game (or at least equal to the Kortul), and it is a very difficult ship to balance thanks to the huge boost finest hour gives to all of its abilities.

Its supposed to be a Brick.  I actually think 25 antimatter is too low in its current implementation.  It only has to spend antimatter on Flak Burst or GRG.  Unless it is in strikecraft suppression mode, it can run GRG to its hearts content.  Finest Hour actually nets more antimatter than it costs, so once you have Finest Hour, it can run the GRG near continuously.

I'm thinking raise the antimatter cost to 30...and raise the damage a wee bit?  Instead of 300/450/600, what about 400/500/600?

And by the way, thanks to Cykur, Darvin, and Waxworks for testing yesterday....good games!

Phase Missile Swarm may need some work...I'm not sure what direction to take it though...

Don't know if this has been suggested before, but I suggest making Dunov's magnetize also able to target the owner's ships and structures.  I spent a fair amount of time quite a while back trying to make Dunov counter strikecraft - this was when Advent was totally OP and I had left Vasari because they sucked so hard.  I was trying anything I could to counter Halcyon rushes.  At any rate, to cut to the chase, the only way Dunov stands a chance at countering any strikecraft is if it can target it's own ships and structures.

This could have some promise, especially as we can negate the abilities disabled effect for allied targets and maybe even add a buff of its own (much like phase out hull). However it would be a bit harder to implement than most of the changes suggested thus far, so if it is going to be done we should be sure it's the right direction to take (unless you have your old mod still on hand for testing).