Why is the AI so stupid?

It's the AI's interplanetary bureaucracy. Instead of doing their jobs, they spend most of their time cruising the galactic internet for porn. So you've got this one low level functionary who is just trying to get a check off on a form. She has tried to apply for a military escort for the constructors, but the forms land on someone's desk who finds the simplest way to deal with the task is just ignore it.

This AI needs more civics research most likely.

Well, my first question is, why are you blowing up Drath constructors if the only opponent is the Drengin? (sorry, typo nazi joke)

I've run into this a few times myself, and all I can say is that inevitably no AI is going to be perfect. There's actually at least four separate AI modules - I believe they're Terran, Drengin, Torian, and Altarian - which the rest are variants on (Torian and Altarian seem to be the strongest) so you could try playing against another one if the Drengin really seem weak. There is also a "Force Maximum CPU" option you could try - I've never done it, as the Tough AI is good enough for me (though I might be ready for Painful by now). Other then that, well, if your faith in the game can be destroyed by one AI weakness, perhaps you should find another game.

BTW - Is this on Dread Lords or the expansions? The AI is much improved in the expansions over the original DL AIs.

The AI isn't stupid. Your playing the dread lords (as stated in previous post AI is much improved in expansions) and on top of that your playing the second campain mission. Of course the AI is gonna be easy on the SECOND mission the advanced algorithms that tough AI normally has doesn't apply in this case because its a scriped campain mission and not a sand box game. Go to new game not story campain and generate a random huge galaxy with tough AI setting and you will see that in fact this game has some of the best AI ever put into a video game.

To clarify, I am running the Ultimate Edition so I do have the expansions.  However, I am playing the Dread Lords campaign.  Not sure if the original campaign gets to benefit from AI improvements released in the subsequent expansion packs but I would assume so.

Regardless, Tzukasa7, you make a good point.  One reason the AI may seem stupid is that I am running the second easiest campaign from the original game.  I'll give sandbox a shot.

I agree with Tzukasa7, the story campaign have certain limits on it that keep it within the story so it doesn't overwealm you. lol

But the sandbox one can overwealm you if you do not work faster.

I also agree with Tzukasa7 (except about galaxy size - I find the AI does best on smaller maps, although I like Gigantic galaxies for the epic feel) - the campaigns aren't really a good judge of the AI. Sandbox mode is the meat of the game, and that mission was particularly easy, as I recall (the campaign does get much, much tougher once the Dread Lords make their appearance). I will note that I've seen your original complaint happen in a war between two AIs - the Drengin blew up a Terran eco mining starbase and just sat there destroyed Terran constructor after Terran constructor. Again, though, some racial AIs can be very smart - the Torians, also at war with the Drengin, developed an enormous military and wiped them off the map.

(off-topic: Are you playing the DL campaign with one of the expansions or the original DL included with the Ultimate Edition? I ask because the expansions created a number of bugs, notably that a later mission "Apocalypse" is impossible as the victory condition requires you to defeat the nonexistant Krynn rather then the Dread Lords you're supposed to defeat.)

Btw qrtxian those bugs specificly the one about that mission with the krynn has been fixed and no longer is present in the current version 2.03

Good to know... I have the original DL and don't need to worry about the bugs anyway, but still glad to hear they fixed it.

Off-topic: I just tried the DL campaign again myself and am really struggling all of a sudden... mainly because my economy is constantly teetering on the edge of collapse. I barely staved off disaster in the first mission by keeping my taxes in the 70s and selling techs to my ally... while the Drengin just built ships like no tomorrow. Anyone know why the campaign economy is such a mess?

I AGREE THE GIGANTIC MAP WITH 10 RACES 8 LESSER RACES. bE GLAD THIS IS NOT DARK AVATAR THATS WHEN THEY GET REALLY STUPID. tHOUGH THE DRENGIN IS THE PROBLEM THEY JUST SUCK ON EVERY LEVEL WITH ADVANCED ALGRITHMS ON ANY GAME IN DREAD LORDS TRY AVVOIDING THE DRENGIN THALAN DOMINION OF KORX DARK AVATAR USE ONLY KRYNN AND KORATH CLAN AI TWILIGHT OF THE ARNOR DRENGIN ARCEAN AND DOMINION OF KORX AI I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THEY ARE SO STUPID I KNOW WHY THE ARCEANS ARE ABLe TO FIGHT THE DRENGIN EVEN THEY WONT RESEARCH WEAPONS WITHOUT HELP. KONA IS NOT A BRILLIANT TACTICIAN DRENGIN ARE RETARDED BETTER IN DARK AVATAR EVEN IF EVERYONE IS RETARDED EXCEPT KRYNN AND KORATH CLAN. BY THE WAY CIVILIZATION ALWAYS HAVE HAD A GOOD AI INSTEAD OF RUINING A GOOD AI TO ADVANCE OTHERS EXAMPLE DUMMYING DOWN KRYNN AND KORATH CLAN TO MAKE THE TORIANS ICONIANS AND THALANS TO LOOK GOOD CIVILIZATION ONLY MAKES AI'S BETTER NOT WORST. Also I do have to point out I don't like me or the A.I. to cheat, so I also play tough. Instead of a arbitrary bonus, they should set the goals for the A.I. higher on the harder levels.

Turn your Caps Lock off.  

Do not feed the trolls or they will grow stronger, Moosetek13.

I'm confused. I started the Ultimate Edition in April 2010. I used the update function in April and it says it's up to 2.02. After i saw your message, I tried the Update (from the initial menu) and it said it was installing 2.03 but when it was done it said I was still running 2.02?!

What am i missing?

BTW, I corrected the "Krynn error" using the Scenario Editor, and now I can't tell if the update corrected it or it's right because I manually corrected it.

I guess it really doesn't matter much to me anymore, unless there's something else important in 2.03.

I'm on "Exploitation" maybe the 8th or 9th Scenario playing at painful. I have the Ultimate Edition updated to 2.02. I have played a couple of Immense sandbox game on tough and painful. I haven't been disappointed by the AI, at least in general. But this was really bad:

In "Exploitation" the Arcean's took a Yor planet. There were 6 undeveloped tiles, three others with a starport, an initial colony and a recruiting center. When I got around to looking, the AI was building, in this order, Soil Enhancement (1), Habitat improvement (40) and Terraforming (50). The Soil Enhancement must have already been underway, but for heavens sake, it can't be right to spend 91 turns to get the undeveloped tile count up from 6 to 9 before building anything of use. The Torians didn't do much better when they took a Yor colony.

In general, I've noticed that the AI always goes straight for the newest "whatever". When starting a new colony in mid-game that's suicidal. It might take 100 turns to go straight to an industrial complex but only a half dozen to build a traditional factory that will be helpful in upgrading that same tile.

So true. You can easily use that to their demise. At one time of the game, somewhere shortly after the Colony Rush, or even amidst, pass them those 3 Terraforming-techs. They will go on and built the initial improvements, usually a Starport and facs or lab, then waste their effort in upgrading their planets. Once done, pass the next fac/lab tech - and they will upgrade the initial structures.. once complete, next stage.. and so on... while you easily beat them with first or second tier facs/labs cause your planets are already outbuilt.

That nerfs their ability to built ships for an est. 75%.

In one game I've given the Yor a lowPQ but highPop planet stuffed full of Embassis and Propaganda Centers. Thought this migh prevent him from culture-flipping. But he would constantly alternate between 100% taxation and low tax - which killed over 10b people leaving not even 1b there. Until now it puzzles me why N-1 needed bcs so badly - there was no Starport there to built ships, and no other races to trade techs with... needless to mention he didn't consider overbuilding an embassy with a Starport... strange...

Well, in DL, you don't have the option of building older factories/labs/whatever - you have to go with the newest version. I think they changed this in DA, but maybe the AI wasn't updated with it?

And given how highly the AI seems to value terraforming techs, you can swindle them out of lots of their stuff while you're at it. It's especially stupid for neutral races, because they don't even need those techs.

Correct me if I misunderstand this - but are you saying that 10 billion population "died" from high taxes? I've never had a 100% tax rate - is this a result or does it have something to do with the overhaul to the Yor in TOA?

Right, this all was from a DA game - where a planet will loose 10% of its pop when a turn is ended with 19% approval or below.

What do you mean with "overhaul"?

IIRC, their TOA tech tree was one of the most dramatically altered from the DL/DA base. I wondered if this loss of population was tied to some of their changes.

Neither I nor the AI have ever had a planet at that low approval, so it makes sense I wouldn't have seen this. The worst planet I've had was 28%; worst AI planet 25%, and they earned it (built farms on several farm bonus tiles with extremely high taxes. Information warfare paid off big).

Your population on your planets depend on your approval so if you keep a low approval it will lower your population over time this is probably a long game I don't want to know how to counter the computer for being stupid I want the computer to stop.

This is what I'm talking about why is some A.I.'s are really stupid fill up the square's before terraforming, and with the old improvements first. It's hurts everyone, but the Thalans in the long game more than 5 years.

That explains some things, when my Dark Avatar finally crashed, and I couldn't bring it up because my cd went bad I started playing Dread Lords. Dark Avatar was too easy, Dread Lords, especially the Terrans, Torians, Arceans, and Iconians were a challenge. Eventually I went out and bought the game, if I'm wrong how come they took Dark Avatar off the shelf and brought back the Dread Lords. The Dread Lords game was easier than the Dread Lords expansion game.

Yeah, had alot of CTD with DA on my old rig.... doesn't happen anymore so guess the fault was on my side.

Michael, if your CD is corrupt install Impulse and download the latest version. You only need to register the game with your serial.

BTW it seems the approval-zones when pop is lost/gained is the same in all three games:

0-19%: loss of 10%

20-44%: population stays how it is

100%: double gain

The other 2 zones (AFAIK 45-69% & 70-99%) are uninteresting, as their gain is inferior to a tactic that combines and switches between 100% approval (for popgrowth) & least 20% approval (for max taxes).

Well, I'm somewhat interested in the other two zones, as I try to keep my approval at least in the yellow (45% and up) as my roleplaying half wants my people to like me. What are the effects, if any, of these approval zones?

Well, if you compare these zones then it appears that the +45% zone will get you the "cheapest" popgrowth ie. you'll loose lesser money but still have a bit popgrow.

In the +70% zone the growth is only a slight bit better in growth - but in no way can it compensate for the loss of bcs vs. the +45% zone.

The 100% zone is little bit worse in terms of an Econ-income/Popgrowth-ratio than the +70% zone. However, population is general is the best investment you can possibly have in this game. So, if you focus on pop inititally, and attribute some points into it, or have Breeder SA - you'll need to invest a small amount of cash into growth - which will pay back multiple times once you've reached ~9b ppl and jacking up taxes to max.

I understood as much already. Like I said, I like to roleplay and want to have high approval, even if it means I'm not maximizing my taxes - because to me that's the point of the game. I'll never have 'optimal' gameplay, but to me that's not as fun. Different strokes and all that.

How exactly does the new Yor economy work, anyway?

They have access to their own economic system "Efficiency Studies", which gives the same racial bonus as the usual econ-techs (Xeno Economics, Banks, Republic-Federation). And these techs do have lesser cost and are sooner accessable, and that taken together with their +10% stock bonus is one side of the advantage.

The other advantage is that they can mine out resources pretty well - given they have their hands on some econ-resources can make a real difference.

However, they only have one econ-improvement, the Efficiency Center, the Yor's equivalent of a Stock Market. Although also very early accessable, it's only a one-per-planet building... and that's a huge loss.

So, if you're playing without tech-trading/-brokering or -stealing, you won't be able to create ÜberEcon-planets - which do naturally require a high population, which is also not really doable with them. So, thinking about "specializing" planets for production/research only is not really fundable.

Although their Stalks are very interesting structures in that they combine pop & moral - 2 Stalks 3rd grade give 6b ppl & 40% approval, while a combo of Advanced Farm/VRC gives 7b & 40% - 1b more. However, the Stalks are much faster researchable... and that's somehow a red line in the Yor's techtree - they are really strong from the beginning on while later become gradually weaker and fall behind compared to other races.

The same could be said from their labs & facs as well.

And while the loss of moral-tree can be mitigated by some well-outmined moral-resources, a high pop is generally not needed when playing them. If taken everything into consideration, the Yor are played best when they colonize a lot of planets, irrelevant of PQ. But they need to focus to have their planets in a status of low maint, and that's why their initial facs and all their one-per-planet structures are best. I'd even go so far as to leave tiles open on high PQ planets, their planets look virtually all the same, Starport, Research Matrix, Efficiency Center, a Stalk and as much facs you can support.

But if you leave techtrading etc on, this can pretty much affect the whole gameplay, because once they'll get their hands on a good reproduceable econ-structure they can fill in those empty tiles with them - which gives enough power to upgrade their facs to another class - their endtier fac has the highest base MP output in the game. 

The only downside is that they somehow lack the diplomatic tree, so techtrading is not that easy. However, most other races diplo-/moral-/econ-techs are tradeable - while theirs generally NOT... so, if you then compare the Yor's economy in full combination of own + alien techs, I'd say, they pretty much beat everything else out there.