Frogboy Frogboy

Sorry guys, not this week

▼

Sorry guys, not this week

from JoeUser Forums

I’ve been playing the beta 1Z candidate all day today and it’s around 9pm as I write this and while it is a vast improvement over beta 1G, it just isn’t put together enough for the public.

The criteria for beta 1Z is that it has to be good enough where we think it’s ready to go to beta 2.

So new date is sometime next week.  Since that will push back our internal schedule, we’re going to let new people into beta 1Z next week so that they’re not stuck waiting.

To get a scope of how much has changed since beta 1G here is the change log we have so far:

 

- Elemental 1Z Change Log -

***********************************************

** New Features **

***********************************************

- Economy Overhaul -

Overview: The major resources in the game have been switched over to being GLOBAL (per-

player opposed to per-city). Building materials, metal, and crystal are added, per-turn, into their pool overall pool, while food is stored as a players 'net-food', whch gets spent on housing as the player wishes to expand it's cities.

+ Improvements now use ConstructionResourceCost modifiers for their up front costs when placed, and refunds when destroyed
+ Started cleaning up old code for gathering resources for constructing improvements
+ Added support for improvements having a <PerTurn>0</PerTurn> resource game modifier that they apply, but only for global resources (for now).  They will apply it when construction is completed, and apply the reverse when the improvement is destroyed.

+ Fixed bug where one-time resource modifiers would be used for per-turn city resource calculations after the resource data had been refreshed more than once
+ Started making construction cost refunds on improvements more flexible, so some costs can be refunded even if the building isn't under construction

+ added entries in the global pool area for population and for food.  
+ Entries with a value of 0 are not added.
+ global pool listgrid is resized based on total entry width, and then the global pool area is sized just big enough to fit that listgrid and the buttons

+ One-time resource modifiers now displayed in a city's resource list
+ Added food construction costs to the housing improvements that upgrade from hut

+ Switched food to be a non-stored global resource acted on by per-turn food modifiers in improvements again
+ This way, food can be acted on by trade and ability modifiers
+ Added ability for player to refresh their non-stored resource values in the middle of a turn, and called for a refresh at various times when improvements are being placed, destroyed, or finishing construction, to ensure it stays up to date

+ Fixed some bugs where the global resource amounts for non-stored resources and the global pool UI wouldn't update in certain cases, like when housing is upgraded mid-turn by choosing a tech breakthrough
+ Player values for per-turn resources should be up to date whenever they are asked for
+ Removed trade through capital city bonus for the capital city itself, though the resources produced by the capital city are still taken into account for other cities connected to it through a road

+ Fixed bug where pioneer improvements would be placed in the bottom left corner of the tile you built them in
+ Fixed bug where the graphics of loaded improvements under construction would not show up on the map at all
+ If cities' net resource production is less than or equal to 0, it will still be displayed in the city details screen, so you can tell if your city is actually being a drain on some global resource
+ Added pioneer improvements to the kingdom details screen
+ Global resource pool UI now shows the net per-turn production of a given resource when you mouse over its entry
+ Added calculation of per-turn amounts of each global resource alongside the calculations that were already being done for non-stored resources, though if the player already had and was using a different per-turn calculation function, I just call that instead to set the per-turn value
+ Fixed bug where global resources spent training a unit weren't reflected immediately in the UI

+ AddUnitBeingTrained refreshes global resource display if any global resources are spent

+ Added net tooltip for mousing over global resource pool entries+ Added m_apPerturnResources (and saving/loading of it) and m_csPerTurnResources
+ Added GetPerTurnResourceProduction
+ RecalculateDirtyPerTurnResources now calculates a per-turn value for all resource, not just non-stored ones, but uses existing net calculation function if they already exist (like for gold and research points)

- Pioneer Units -

Overview: Players can now build 'Pioneers', who can place improvements on the major resources to feed into the global pool.

+ 'BuildOnResource' Unit Action

- when an improvement is done, it will not exude ZOC for the player
- in basic mode, completed improvement icons will show up no matter what zoom level
- action will build the best possible improvement on the resource the unit is standing on
- improvmeent takes the appropriate number of turns to build
- hide resource being tapped
- for testing, readded the action for all units...will remove next
- improvement will take the required resources when built
- Update the main ui when resoruces are used
- if a trained unit builds: destroy that unit
- allowed pioneers to tap shards (needed a special IF cause for resources that were of a shard type)
- tweak pioneer kit to cost 50 gold and 5 materials

+ Resources from pioneer improvements are now taken into account in the player's global pool of stored resources, and their calculations of non-stored resources per turn
+ Fixed asserts when trying to select a pioneer improvement and broken info cards when mousing over them, the info cards now work completely and selecting a pioneer improvement shows the generic context used by goodie huts and such, though it's lacking in anything but a name right now
+ Fixed bug where calling DeductConstructionCosts on a pioneer improvement with a non-stored construction resource cost would have kept the player's pool from updating, actual deduction code should take care of it now
+ Fixed some leaked refs in the generic context wnd

+ Added saving/loading of a player's pioneer improvements
+ Added info to pioneer improvement generic context when selected about turns to finish building and resources produced

+ Resources should store wether or not they can be built upon without a city
+ All 'BonusTile' resources should be off-limits to pioneer units
+ remove the weird mine that gets build by pioneers if Mining has not been researched (Mine_Improvement)...needed to remove MINING.XML file

+ Pioneers are a default unit for all factions, like Peasants

+ Added Kingdom_Pioneer unit type that's available to all factions by default, has a pioneer's kit equipped

- Minimap -

Overview: A resizable and movable minimap is now available for the player to utilize.

+Minimap can be dragged
+Minimap can be clicked to move the camera
+Minimap can be zoomed in on to move the camera AND zoom in

+ Fixed dragging on the minimap. Dragging on the top bar now moves the whole map, dragging on the minimap itself moves the camera as expected.
+ Blended in a parchment texture to the minimap so it looks more aesthetically pleasing.
+ The minimap updates when fog of war tiles get revealed now.

+ The minimap can now be hidden and unhidden using the hide arrow in the upper-right of the minimap and the main window.
+ The minimap can now be docked in the upper-right part of the main window by dragging it there

- Bonus Tiles -

Overview: Various bonus resources (that require an adjacent city) will improve different aspects of any city that claims them.

+ Senic View (Prestige Bonus)

+ Wild Game (Food Bonus)

+ Oasis (Food Bonus)

+ Lost Library (Research Bonus)

+ Gold Deposit (Income Bonus)
+ Rematched Bonus Types for Claimed Tile Improvements and Special Resources

+ Special Tiles now have proper Medallions attached to them

- Event List Started -

Overview: As events occur, small pips will appear on the right hand side of the screen and will disappear after 2 turns (still needs polish).

+ Make, clean up MainGameWnd_EventList.cpp for all event list code
+ make CMainGameEventEntryWnd class
+ hook up to ReportItems...when a report item is added, add an event entry as well
+ entries time out after 2 turns
+ right clicking removes entries from the list

***********************************************

** Fixes **

***********************************************

- Units -

+ Fixed bug where caravans would move to the next tile between turns, then drift to the bottom-left corner of the tile

- AI -

+ fixed some issues with AI not building cities, I had them trying to use AUTO_EXPLORE when they can't find anything else to do, so they can clear some FOW, but it doesnt' actually work for AI, so I just wrote my own wandering code.
+ AI-controlled sovereigns now get sent to their closest city if they are defeated in battle. If they have no cities left, they are killed, and their faction is destroyed.

- Battles -

+  Fixed a divide-by-zero crash in the battle engine

- Cities -

+  Fixed improvements appearing to be buildable on resource hoards when the player has no tiles.
+  Fixed tooltips to now show in red the reason the player cannot build an improvement.
+  Added many more icons to tooltips to make the benefits and costs of each improvement more explicit.

+ Implemented more resource flags to show improvement costs and benefits in the citybuilding menu. The remaining improvements that do not have benefits showing do not have benefits in their XML yet.

+  Improved the citybuilding screen's "Cost" and "Provides" entries.
- All entries that can be XML driven are.  Entries that cannot at least have detailed tooltips.
- If an entry does not have an icon, the space for that icon is used for text instead.
- The spacing between entries has been tweaked so that even the longest entry list will not go outside the space provided.
+  Fixed placing improvements across rivers, the player can no longer do so.

+ You may now demolish a four-tile improvement by clicking anywhere on it.

+  Fixed some four-tile improvements being slightly offset after building, causing them to overlap other improvements.
+  Suppressed the notification of auto-upgraded improvements building so the player doesn't get 20 "Construction completed on our house" notifications when their city levels up.

+  Fixed Jakob's broken city walls case.  The size of the buffer was not getting calculated correctly, leading it to not have enough room to store the improvements before building the walls.

+ Fixed bug where improvements would still attempt to gather resources after placing them and pressing turn, causing them to take longer than advertised to build

- UI -

+ Right clicking the center medallion will now focus the camera on the selected unit
+ SHIFT-S will not select the sovereign, and focus the camera on him
+ Change the calculation of Might to Power Rating and changed it to use Brad’s formula from the Beta 1-Z document.

+ Train unit screen lists the resource requirements and population requirements of the highlighted unit, coloring a requirement red if it is not satisfied by the city and therefore keeping the unit from being trainable
+ Costs for items now show up in a separate string that's easier to see, hidden if the item doesn't cost anything (like skin or hair)

+ Player can now select more than one stationed unit.
+ When multiple stationed units are selected they can be unstationed as one.
+  Put in strings for improvements with non-standard bonuses so that they can be customized yet data-driven

+ Added strings for tooltips when mousing over the new per-turn points displays for research and spell points in the main UI

+ Fixed bug where changing the skin color in the create sovereign screen and customize faction screen would not update the skin color in the preview unit scene view graphic

+ Spell points and research points per-turn displayed near the buttons, says it's a per-turn value on mouseover

+ Fixed issue where unit scene view windows were "blowing out" the lighting on characters

- Gameplay -

+ Updated Improvement Quantity Limits
+ Watchtower no longer costs materials to build
+ City Hubs store 20 Pop
+ Huts/Houses now cost 4 food
+ Market no longer costs materials to build
+ Improved starting gold to 500
+ Created "the Dark Concoction" Quest
+ Updated various improvement tile designs
+ Removed K_Apartment from the repository

+ Updated Quest "Strange Noises" trigger chance

+ Updated Wild Wheat Production Value to 1.0

+ New Medallion png's for the special tiles, claimed tile improvements, and work camp
+ Resource gathering improvements now ignore duplicate imp limit
+ Only one wall improvement is allowed per city
+ Quarries now reduce build times
+ Resources and special tiles now have descriptions for tooltips
+ Created Granary Improvement to boost food production

+ Checked in a number of new medallions for the new bonus tiles

+ Updated Granary improvement to only allow one per city

+ Created Equipment Cache Goody Hut that Rewards Equipment

+ Items/Weapons/Accessories no longer give more than .25 Combat Speed
+ Meditative talent now produces 1 SP per turn instead of 4
+ Armory Improvement now decreases troop training time instead of multiplying IronOre resource + Created List of Champion Names

+ goodie huts that do not disappear from the map after being cleared now have their icons set to semi-transparent to differentiate them from unvisited goodie huts.

+ marrages should no longer happen randomly...have to go on quests to get proposals to prompt

+ City Improvement Limits adjusted
+ Removed Siege_Workshop.xml, added Siege_Foundry.xml as replacement
+ Updated Materials output for Lumbermill

+ Created Workshop Improvement to generate Materials
+ Added IgnoreDuplicateImpLimit tag to Garden

+ Outposts now store 20 Pop
+ Can now only build 1 Command Post per City
+ Market no longer costs materials to build
+ Updated Tax Office and Arcane Society improvement tile designs

+ Added a limit to the maximum number of active quests a player can have at any one time. The limit is defined in ElementalDefs.xml as MaxActiveQuests, and is currently set to 3. When the quest limit is reached, no new quests  will be presented to the player, and they will not be able to acquire new ones by visiting quest locations until they complete some of their active quests. Visiting a quest location while at the quest limit will not clear the quest location.

+ A number of quest locations are spawned for each player in the turn after they get their first city, to give them access to quests early on. The number of quest locations that get spawned is set via NumStartingQuestLocations in ElementalDefs.xml, and is currently set to 1.

+ Upon completing a quest spawned from a quest location, the quest location is removed from the map to reduce clutter.

- Memory Leaks -

+ MainStatsSubWnd.cpp
- fixed leaked ref for population resource in FillWithCityStats()
+ KingdomReportSubWnd.cpp
- in AddTextForPlayer(), fixed leaked refs in a while loop of resources and some more in that same function but further down in a forloop of resources
+ ItemModTypeManager .h/.cpp
- added function VOID ClearItemModTypes() which is called from the dtor()
+ ImprovementType.cpp
- fixed a leaked ref in some commented out code within GetTurnsToConstructInCity(), in case it gets uncommented
+ ImprovementConstruction.cpp
- in ConstructionCostHelper(), fixed leaked refs in a for loop of resources
+ Improvement.cpp
- in DetermineImprovementContiguity(), fixed leaked refs when leaving the function early
+ GameItemType.cpp
- in UnloadGameItemTypes(), cleared the vector after safe releasing its contents
+ FlavorTextManager.cpp
- in dtr(), now calling Clear() to clean things up
+ DungeonType.cpp
- in UnloadDungeonTypes, now clearing the vector after safe releasing the contents
+ CityTradeInfo.cpp

- in RecalculateAllTradeInfo(), fixed leaked refs to resource types in a for loop and calling FindResourceTypeByTypeName() each time

- in CheckTradeRoadConnection(), fixed leaked refs to resoruce types while iterating and calling FindResourceTypeByTypeName() each time
+ CityResourceData.cpp
- in Load(), before setting value of m_pResourceType to a new value, fixed leak ref by calling SAFE_RELASE on it so it will release any previous value

+ Fixed a number of memory leaks in CMainMapViewWindow::CreateLODGroundcover( ) (multiple return cases where objects were not being released, though this function is not currently being called, as the LOD ground cover is disabled), and CWorld::IsTileEmpty( ) (wasn’t releasing the unit).
- Engine -

+ Goodie huts can now be assigned a preferred terrain, which is the only terrain it will be randomly placed on.

+ Hooked up the ground cover spinner in the options window to the new world prop ground cover system.

+ Fixed an issue with the ground cover spinner that was preventing it from saving your setting.

+ Ground cover props now get placed when terrain is modified in the map editor, to give a better idea of how things will look in the main game.

+ Changed the ground cover prop density so that on the highest level every unoccupied tile will get a piece of ground cover.
+ Fixed bug where restarting the game from within a game (in basic mode) caused the main map not to render

+ Implemented new CAnimatedLeafNode class to render a single animated tree leaf
- Use CSceneNodeUtil::CreateAnimatedLeafNode to create the node
- This gets us one step closer to forests using tile designs

+ Fixed issue that was preventing the terrain and water from rendering when starting a new game up after one has already been created.

+ CMapData is now reference-counted, and gets passed along to terrain graphics objects (currently CTerrainGraphic and
  CCliffGraphic, and will be expanded to include CWaterGraphic, CRoadGraphic and CRiverGraphic) that need to access information
  about the map. These objects will now use their pointer to CMapData to access the required information rather than the access
  functions in Elemental.cpp or CWorld.

+ Fixed some crashes that would occur when attempting to exit the game via the main menu after having used the map editor.

+ Fixed problem with ground cover world props that was preventing goodie huts and resources from being placed if the ground cover spinner was set to the highest level.

+ Changed rendering order in main map and map editor so props and characters render under the water

+ Re-wrote CDecalGraphic’s vertex and index buffer code to be much more efficient, in terms of both memory footprint and processing time (it was allocating four times as many vertices as were needed).

 

Stay tuned.

36,472 views 51 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Overview: The major resources in the game have been switched over to being GLOBAL (per-player opposed to per-city). Building materials, metal, and crystal are added, per-turn, into their pool overall pool, while food is stored as a players 'net-food', whch gets spent on housing as the player wishes to expand it's cities.

I bet this'll get a lot of hate, but I kind of like it myself. Shuffling resources from city to city is the kind of pointless complexity a game like this can do without. It doesn't specialize cities, it doesn't stop each city from being able to make whatever, it just adds extra clicking and waiting to be able to do it.

+ AI-controlled sovereigns now get sent to their closest city if they are defeated in battle. If they have no cities left, they are killed, and their faction is destroyed.

um

I take it this is just a stopgap so that the incomplete AI stops getting eliminated when its sovereign does something stupid, so we can troubleshoot it easier?

- Bonus Tiles -

Overview: Various bonus resources (that require an adjacent city) will improve different aspects of any city that claims them.

Solid. Wonder how common they'll be? These kinds of things were fairly common in civ games and mods, but real rare and special in GC2.

+ Items/Weapons/Accessories no longer give more than .25 Combat Speed

Heh... I heard the rings that gave +1 CS were pretty over the top for early head-bonking, but any chance they'll be back in the form of lategame super-goodies that you need a high level/kickass materials to make, or somesuch?

- Memory Leaks -

HUGE WALL OF TEXT

Good, good.

Regardless, nice to hear that I won't have to wait for Beta 2.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

+ AI-controlled sovereigns now get sent to their closest city if they are defeated in battle. If they have no cities left, they are killed, and their faction is destroyed.

I hope we have now a way to raze a city. In beta 1G, the only way to be able to have a conquest victory with lots of opponents was to kill their sovereign outside their cities to have their cities disappeared and avoid the exponential city cost.

DeskScapes - Bring your desktop background to life.
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Good one...we all fell for it.

When can I start downloading the patch

 

 

 

 

:pout:

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Lavitage, reply 26
Overview: The major resources in the game have been switched over to being GLOBAL (per-player opposed to per-city). Building materials, metal, and crystal are added, per-turn, into their pool overall pool, while food is stored as a players 'net-food', whch gets spent on housing as the player wishes to expand it's cities.


I bet this'll get a lot of hate, but I kind of like it myself. Shuffling resources from city to city is the kind of pointless complexity a game like this can do without. It doesn't specialize cities, it doesn't stop each city from being able to make whatever, it just adds extra clicking and waiting to be able to do it.

 

I for one am all for global resources as it greatly opens up the possbilities of how an empire can grow as well as does away with what I see as tedious logistical management.

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Peace, reply 27

+ AI-controlled sovereigns now get sent to their closest city if they are defeated in battle. If they have no cities left, they are killed, and their faction is destroyed.
I hope we have now a way to raze a city. In beta 1G, the only way to be able to have a conquest victory with lots of opponents was to kill their sovereign outside their cities to have their cities disappeared and avoid the exponential city cost.

 

The exponential city cost was an acknowledged bug that will hopefully be done away with. I do agree that there still needs to be a way to raze a city, coupled with an instant gain in resources and hopefully some kind of prestige loss.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Yestin, reply 23

Quoting Rishkith, reply 22The global resources still sooo don't enthuse me. Regardless I'm actually kind of glad this is the weekend for delay as I've got so much going on I'd be very pressed to test this one. Next week I'll have a lot more time for seeing if quests actually appear, how well magic is working, how stable the game is, and how much I decide I hate implementing a RTS global resource economy in a TBS game.
 

Just out of curiosity, how is the global resource economy "RTS" style instead of "TBS" style?

 

Thinking about a couple prominent TBS games off the top of my head, they both have global resources:

Civ 4 has global resources, if you have one city with a gold mine you gain the "gold" resource. The only difference is that Elemental is modeling a production and storage model instead of the massive abstraction that Civilization uses.

Master of Magic uses global resources for magic, and the only local resources I remember (beyond simple a simple bonus to the nearest city like deer) are the various metals which granted the nearby city that metal for any troops built there. Consider; Elemental has a much more sophisticated unit system with customization of gear. In MoM there was no "adamantium" resource in the city to be used up, just a blanket bonus to new troops. In other words, less like a resource and more like a bonus.

Actually these games all had a lot of local resources in addition to the global resources. In Civ4 food is not a global resource, the tiles of irrigation matter to the city they're near and not cities on other continents. Same with all tile improvements actually. MoM is the same way with Nightshade, forests, roads giving bonuses to the city which has them in its tile set. They also had a set of global resources due to the simplicity of their code.

An all Global resource model is like what Starcraft or Warcraft use where you see Vespene Gas or Gold in the corner of the screen and it doesn't matter at all WHERE you have it.

and I'd actually be fine with having a set number of resources be global like in Civ and MoM, but in my opinion making all the resources global not only breaks immersion (Hey Serf, through that yogurt into the inter-continental transporter now!) but lame as when you don't have local resources and can use pioneers to grab any resource tile then city placement becomes largely irrelevant and the tactical choices involved in having a map are greatly reduced.

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, Civ 4 didn't have global resources, except for gold/research.

 

Instead, they simply shared resources with everyone connected somehow. Whether it was by road, by river, by coast with sailing, or by ocean with navigation.

I would suggest a system like that for elemental, but also including high magic choices like teleportation circles to cart resources abstractly around. Maybe resources that are limited are stored in cities until needed by another nearby city, and then they're carted off immediately through the transportation networks.

For UI simplicity, you can have the number of resources on the top of the screen display the resources you have in the connected network, with the resources that you have but aren't connected to that city are greyed out.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Since that will push back our internal schedule, we’re going to let new people into beta 1Z next week so that they’re not stuck waiting.

Huzzah!  I re-did my preorder with a credit card that should work this time, so hopefully I will actually be able to play finally!

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Rishkith, reply 31

Actually these games all had a lot of local resources in addition to the global resources. In Civ4 food is not a global resource, the tiles of irrigation matter to the city they're near and not cities on other continents. Same with all tile improvements actually. MoM is the same way with Nightshade, forests, roads giving bonuses to the city which has them in its tile set. They also had a set of global resources due to the simplicity of their code.
An all Global resource model is like what Starcraft or Warcraft use where you see Vespene Gas or Gold in the corner of the screen and it doesn't matter at all WHERE you have it.
and I'd actually be fine with having a set number of resources be global like in Civ and MoM, but in my opinion making all the resources global not only breaks immersion (Hey Serf, through that yogurt into the inter-continental transporter now!) but lame as when you don't have local resources and can use pioneers to grab any resource tile then city placement becomes largely irrelevant and the tactical choices involved in having a map are greatly reduced.

Ah I see what you mean there, very true about the difference between shared empire Gold and a tile being farmed by a town. One game that I think did a good job compromising these two was Master of Orion 2, with it's auto-shipping based on the number of shipping vessels you build. Elemental seems poised to model that using a global resource pool combined with raidable Caravans, which in game terms do not actually carry around food so much as abstract food shipping. Therefore when a caravan gets raided you simply lose a certain amount of resources from your pool, again abstracting the imaginary localization of resources without actually making the player allocate caravens every turn. As I said before, I am not against that model of economy (ala Patrician III), but it seems that Stardock has chosen to compromise that aspect so as not to lose the majority of players, who simply do not find resource movements fun (again, I hope this is moddable so that someone *could* create a Patrician III style Elemental mod).

A big difference I see that pushes Elemental this direction is that the scale is so much smaller than Civ, with populations in the hundreds instead of hundreds of thousands. Fantasy in general has this small-ish army conceit, making individuals more important and underlining truly massive battles (the battle of Minas Tirith or Helms Deep vs Fights the Fellowship has in Moria or Isengard). When you are dealing with 3 man scouting parties or 50 man armies you don't have to worry about supply lines or clean water or any of the logistical difficulties that WWII games (or a realistic medieval warfare game for that matter, if they existed) would address. This same idea applies to towns made up of refugees streaming in from the countryside, there are simply not enough people for macro-economics to take effect, so having a complex model for resource movement seems like it could be a lot of work for little benefit, especially if caravans are still in as the equivilant of targetable mini-treasuries :)

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Whaaa!!! you're having way too many memory leaks! Either your coders don't think things out or I've grown way too sensitive about new and delete...

 

Also you should plan for a new release every two weeks, especially this early on. We've been sitiing around all day doing nothing with this broken build.

That sounds great! I look forward to your game.

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

LOL Frogboy. :grin:  

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Whaaa!!! you're having way too many memory leaks! Either your coders don't think things out or I've grown way too sensitive about new and delete...

Also you should plan for a new release every two weeks, especially this early on. We've been sitiing around all day doing nothing with this broken build.

Dude! You apparantly doesn't have a clue about what you are talking about, and especially not about coding!

I spent almost 4 months creating a life-sim game which consisted in about 7.000 lines of codes. It turned out pretty cool. My final build still consist of a few minor bugs. But i'm a fairly rookie coder, so i finally gave up the debugging. Feeling satisfied with my first true project! (If i was a better coder i would love to apply for a job at Stardock, cuz they are such an unique company, with awsome products). ;)

We are still at beta 1, getting closer to beta 2. But why expect something really stable, when this is an EARLY beta.. (which other game companies migth would have considered an alpha, which probably wouldn't even been a public beta yet).

You should find something to do, not just sitting around waiting for the betas.. "Mr. Frogboy" and his awsome crew of GOOD developers and artists are creating a unique game! Possible a game that will become one of my all time favourite, and i've been playing games from the very early 90s.

I've been following the game journals for almost 8-9 months now. This is my first post! Thougth i'd join in with some feedback!

Really quick about beta 1G. (Sorry, probably wrong place to add this. but i'll do it anyways). I've tried the beta several times on my laptop: AMD turion X2 64-bit/4 GB Ram/Win 7 machine.
Yesterday I was able to research a bunch of technologies. My chaneler became over 300 years old and my 4 children became close to 200 years old before the beta "Blacked out" on me. I have been able to play until i became victorious. I have also been able to play beta 1G until i lost (wich was pretty easy, since i didn't build any cities).

One input from me.. Not really a bug fix. But it would be cool, if, when you click on that round circle in the middle, when you already have clicked on your town, that the "card" would be visable until you click anywhere else on the map. So that it's not a "mouse-over = show/mouse-leave = hide" kinda code.. Maybe you guys have plaid around with it and figured out that the way it is now is the best way to go already..

To: Frogboy and the rest of the Elemental team. Keep up the awsome work your doing with Elemental. Your doing a great job. And i'm impressed about how fast it is going. I know you guys are working hard. (And i think it will pay back in time). Two thumbs up from me! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I'll try to be more active in the forums and also trying to help out with actually doing some beta testing and reporting bugs! =)

+1 Loading…
Reply #38 from Stardock Forums Top

man they giveing us the gameplay at least to let us test it out, so really this early on the crashs don't mean much till getting closer to the finished game, still the possabilitys of this game driving me crazy. love the way the art work is heading really makes elemental stick out.

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Don't worry guys, it'll be worth the wait. :thumbsup:

 

I hope everyone has a nice, relaxing Easter break.

+1 Loading…
Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Didn't Stardock have road construction completely up in the air?

Global resources seem to remove a layer of complexity from the player, in that there obviously then must be roads with caravans of goods being transported that either A) we don't see and thus we don't need roads in the game or B) we see the roads being built automatically as new transport routes evolves, and we can use them if we so choose.

With B follows C that we should somehow be able to influence road building, like the Romans, French and Germans have done in times of unrest.

 

EDIT: Option B is apparently also the "cool" option according to the AI of the forum software. ;)

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

I'll repeat I am happy with the direction of the economy - I can't wait to see it in place. I do NOT like Civ IV type of global resources, but I really LIKE a global stockpile to work from. It makes the world seem more real than just having a list of resources that are available.

I see that there is a section of the main UI that tracks the amounts of the basic resources. A couple of things that I would LIKE to see in addition:

Clicking on that small portion of the UI, I would like to see a full page of ALL known types of resources. I am hoping that there are many, many uncommon, rare, and unique resource items. maybe keep the metals all listed together, etc.

I would also like to see on the unit creation screen a list of the needed "ingredients" with any that are not in the global warehouse listed in red.

I also would not mind having certain spells require a physical component or reagent. These could jsut be pulled from the globabl warehouse as well, and the spell would not work (i.e. no man consumed, etc.) if the physical component was missing. Of course, maybe the required shards is enough of this type of thing, and anything else would overly complicate things.

Right now stability is probably going to be the acid test of voting for or against beta 2. Keep up the great work!

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

I've been watching this product for awhile now and finally decided to jump in with a preorder a couple of weeks ago.  I'm excited that it has been decided to let new testers in, and I look forward to providing feedback.

In the meantime, one thing that concerns me is that I bought the game here through the website instead of through Pulse, so I hope that doesn't exclude me from the process.

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm in no rush! No problem

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting reyawn1, reply 42
In the meantime, one thing that concerns me is that I bought the game here through the website instead of through Pulse, so I hope that doesn't exclude me from the process.

This website sends you to Impulse's website to complete the order, so you should be good to go when the next set of testers is let in. Welcome aboard. :)

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

In the meantime, one thing that concerns me is that I bought the game here through the website instead of through Pulse, so I hope that doesn't exclude me from the process.

I was kinda worried about that when I pre-ordered my copy! I jouned the 1G beta. You will be good. I'm guessing the beta 1Z will come out upcomming thursday. And that day, you will probably recieve that serial or whatever so that you get accsess to the beta..

When i pre-ordered my copy I had to wait quite a few days. But sometime afternoon on the releaseday of beta 1G, i got my accsess code.. I also think that with your login info fot this forum/site. Is the same login information as your Impulse.. So if you haven't installed impulse, I would just do that as soon as possible. And then offcourse on the day beta 1Z os released. You should be pretty much good to go..

No worries reyawn1. You will grant accsess to beta 1Z.

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

+ Improvements now use ConstructionResourceCost modifiers for their up front costs when placed, and refunds when destroyed

Climber:

Suggestion 1: If a city mines ore, it becomes available everywhere and goes into storage.  If that city is connected via roads (network) then need LESS ore to make your armor.  

Suggestion 2: If a city mines ore, it becomes available everywhere and goes into storage.  If that city is NOT connected via roads (network) then need MORE to make your armor.   How much more depends on how far away it is, or whether it is on another island (and hopefully depends on how perishable it is).   Caravans will do the actual shipping of material from the closest network that has the resource, so its delivery time is not instant.

Yay!  Looks like Brad has listen again!  ConstructionResourceCost modifiers seems to be the answer of my request above, especially if it is related to distance or its remoteness to the resource production concerned.

Instead of just "Improvements", can all other form of Troop or Manufactured goods utilize this modifier as well?  

+ added entries in the global pool area for population and for food. 

I would like to add "Money" to the global area as well, if ConstructionResourceCost modifiers also applies to money.  What this will mean is that when you construct improvement or build a troop far away from large cities, costs goes up.   When you construct an extra farm in rural area (& close to other farms), costs goes down.

+ Switched food to be a non-stored global resource acted on by per-turn food modifiers in improvements again 

+ This way, food can be acted on by trade and ability modifiers

This, I do not understand the rationale behind why food become non-stockpileable. I expect  food (and any other resources) is produced in X per turn anyways.  To give them per-turn modifier should not related to whether it is stockpiled or not.   A bit more info describing this will be appreciated.

If what I perceived from the "ConstructionResourceCost modifiers" is as flexible as I've hoped, i am overjoyed!

- when an improvement is done, it will not exude ZOC for the player

Does it means ZOC is in for the overland map?!  Overjoyed!!  Overland Forts, Great Walls will have real function in this game!

 

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting PoPsuX, reply 37

Whaaa!!! you're having way too many memory leaks! Either your coders don't think things out or I've grown way too sensitive about new and delete...

Also you should plan for a new release every two weeks, especially this early on. We've been sitiing around all day doing nothing with this broken build.
Dude! You apparantly doesn't have a clue about what you are talking about, and especially not about coding!

I spent almost 4 months creating a life-sim game which consisted in about 7.000 lines of codes. It turned out pretty cool. My final build still consist of a few minor bugs. But i'm a fairly rookie coder, so i finally gave up the debugging. Feeling satisfied with my first true project! (If i was a better coder i would love to apply for a job at Stardock, cuz they are such an unique company, with awsome products).

We are still at beta 1, getting closer to beta 2. But why expect something really stable, when this is an EARLY beta.. (which other game companies migth would have considered an alpha, which probably wouldn't even been a public beta yet).

You should find something to do, not just sitting around waiting for the betas.. "Mr. Frogboy" and his awsome crew of GOOD developers and artists are creating a unique game! Possible a game that will become one of my all time favourite, and i've been playing games from the very early 90s.

I've been following the game journals for almost 8-9 months now. This is my first post! Thougth i'd join in with some feedback!

Really quick about beta 1G. (Sorry, probably wrong place to add this. but i'll do it anyways). I've tried the beta several times on my laptop: AMD turion X2 64-bit/4 GB Ram/Win 7 machine.
Yesterday I was able to research a bunch of technologies. My chaneler became over 300 years old and my 4 children became close to 200 years old before the beta "Blacked out" on me. I have been able to play until i became victorious. I have also been able to play beta 1G until i lost (wich was pretty easy, since i didn't build any cities).

One input from me.. Not really a bug fix. But it would be cool, if, when you click on that round circle in the middle, when you already have clicked on your town, that the "card" would be visable until you click anywhere else on the map. So that it's not a "mouse-over = show/mouse-leave = hide" kinda code.. Maybe you guys have plaid around with it and figured out that the way it is now is the best way to go already..

To: Frogboy and the rest of the Elemental team. Keep up the awsome work your doing with Elemental. Your doing a great job. And i'm impressed about how fast it is going. I know you guys are working hard. (And i think it will pay back in time). Two thumbs up from me!

I'll try to be more active in the forums and also trying to help out with actually doing some beta testing and reporting bugs!

You take me way too seriously, both of you. :D I meant no disrespect!

I was just teasing, but it is also true that I feel that they could have released new betas every 1 or two weeks. Even if they were still problematic I wouldn't mind since I would have something new to try, test, and comment.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not coding any games yet, but I would like that to change in the future. As far as new and delete are concerned, perhaps I've grown way too sensitive about them over the years, coding DB apps for the private sector. Things are way too tight when you are dealing with accounting/financing/Project management Apps. :(

And I'm not looking down on Brads or anyones coding skills. If anything else, I've already bought Elemental (along with galciv2 +exps and sins + exps) so actions speak louder than words.

 

 

 

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

Maybe its just too much of a hassle to release a "snapshot" of the internal build every week or so, and instead prefer to release monolithic patches.

I for one am just tremendously glad that they are opening this process to the player base at all ... however I suppose to be "that" intimate with the beta builds would ethically require some form of payroll, therefore the Monolithic releases are a middle ground.

I don't know anything about coding, so I don't know wether or not the current release system is more practical ... or if infact its a Design Feature. By Design Feature ... I mean a sort of "self imposed" timeline.

Essentially, even though they "could" release many piecemeal patches, each public patch is a coding benchmark that they wish to achieve certain standards prior to release. In this case, the main benchmark was being ready for multiplayer beta.

It sounds like many game mechics were completely overhauled ... and probably alot of doubts expressed about voting to continue for a raw no-polish version of 1Z influenced their decision to Postpone the launch.

Probably last Wed-Fri, and upcoming Mon/Tues, they are working on putting together their ideas already in place and functional last Monday ... and bring them to a position of "completion" so that it wasn't a spotty rush job. Maybe it was even a lack of certainty (of stability) and these days were used to guarantee stability as well as Polish the "meta-game" or how strategies interact with each other (stats, mechanics, , ect).

Again, I have no idea what Im talking about so this is just made-up conjecture, but it was at least Cathartic in the typing, and might help someone else come to peace with the delay, as it was helpful to me.

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

The main problem with releasing versions frequently at this point is that stuff is changing so rapidly that:

A) Nothing is stable. Major changes create bugs that the developers quickly find but haven't fixed yet. Wading through 500 beta posts about bugs they already know about isn't helping anybody.

B) Mechanics are being tried, and in some cases rejected. Releasing something that they know they're going to totally change tomorrow doesn't make much sense either.

I actually went through a process like this with software I was writing last year. Releases were relatively fast by our normal standard, but they were also at points where I had something new ready that I wanted feedback on from the group. I didn't put out a new build when said thing was mostly broken just because there hadn't been one lately, that would just waste everyones time.

In Elemental's case, we know that they're drastically overhauling the resource system from 1G, because they told us. If that system isn't in a working state yet, releasing a version where the goal is to test that is pointless.

Patience, folks. They want our feedback. Once they have something that we're going to be able to give useful feedback on, they'll give it to us. :)