Demiansky

The Astral Plane of Magic...? (idea)

The Astral Plane of Magic...? (idea)

Alright, this idea might appear strange at first, but bear with me.

In Master of Magic, you had two planes, both of which were more of less the same as far as physical properties are concerned.  I propose that Elemental have two planes as well: the physical plane and the astal plane.  Both planes overlap, and there is a corresponding site in the astral plane for every site in the physical plane (there is a toggle button to switch to the astral plane, which shares the features of the physical plane, but are blurred or distorted. 

The physical plane is basically what we see in the game already.  It's a place where you gather physical resources, build your cities, etc.  The astral plane, on the other hand, is a second plane that overlaps the first but has drammatically different properties: it is the source of all magic.  The astral plane, in fact, is where you channeler would actually "channel" magic from.  Your channeler may even be a native being from the astral plane that has infused itself into a mortal, thus being a middle ground between both planes.  None of your citizens or soldiers can enter the astral plane... except your channeler.  Likewise, there are other creatures endemic to the astral plane that you can muster to your cause, recruit or fight against, but they cannot enter the physical plane. The only place that both planes meet are at shards, and at these locations the beings of both worlds can encounter one another and fight.

The astral plane is where you build most of your magical infrastructure, acquire most of your mana, and make many of your spell discoveries.   In other words, magical dominance comes from dominance of the astral plane.  When your channeler enters the astral plane, he leaves his body in his tower.  So essentially your channeler would have two parts of his character progression as a astral walker and a material plane resident.  A "material progression" would help primarily with his strength in the material plane, and an astral character progression primarily with his strength in the astral plane.  So, want an empire of men with vast cities and armies with a sovereign with great martial prowess?  Leave your sovereign in the material plane.  Want an empire with magical mastery and a sovereign with vast magical power?  Commit your sovereign to the astral plane most of the time.  Most players would choose an inbetween route. 

So by this method, you could have empires that are very small on the material plane, but have vast magical strength because of their exploitation of the astral plane.  Your spells could even be heightened at specific locations on the physical plane if you dominate and develop it corresponding point on the astral plane.  In other words, casting a deadly spell like meteor swarm may not simply be a function of "ready, aim, fire."  One of the pre-requisited might be holding great power at the proper site in the astral plane, building a channel spire there, etc.  When you cast on a location in the physical plane that you have dominated in the astral plane, you spells could gain massive mana discounts, empowerment, etc.  So, if you can't defeat the worldly "Empire of Saradok'Nor" you could subdue the astral plane "beneath" the empire and run amok with spells.

Empires in the physical plane could still gain magical power without even entering the astral plane.  They can build libraries for research or capture shards (which gives you a straight and steady influx of mana.)  But without gaining an actual foothold in the astral plane, it would be difficult for even the largest of empires to keep magical pace with a sovereign that is prevalent in the astral plane but has a trivial presence in the material.  In the material plane, you gain mostly gold and physical resources while you adventure.  In the astral plane, adventuring and questing give you resources of a magical nature.  So in stead of entering that goody hut and getting "gold" you would enter the goody hut and get "research points" or "mana."

This wall of text is thick enough, so I'll let everyone comment now :-)

27,328 views 32 replies
Reply #26 Top

really really like the 2nd plane;

like it in MoM, hope for it in Elemental!;

 

for all others:

 

[ ] turn on/off astral plane

 

should help.

 

 

Reply #27 Top

  I like the idea of a 2nd or successive plane or some variation.  I think the game could be scaled for those who just want a single map experience and those who want more planes of existense aka added variety for single and/or multiplayer.  Planes of fire, water, shadow, astral, etc. are all fun, spice up gameplay.  Maybe just a 'checkbox' at start of game with games broken up into single map, 2 maps, 3maps, 4 maps or more. 

  Also,

Multiple Maps in a Single Session

By Posted December 17, 2009 10:56:51 AM 
  So from that I get it will be moddable and that in the "vanilla" Stardock version it will have one huge map(plane) with many interconnecting states, provinces, fiefdoms, regions, geographic features. Besides, with all the lore and creation ideas needed, having a 2nd map seems like it might become a real chore to populate.  Your idea of an overlay for the regular world with an altar world sounds like a good mechanic for fitting in another fun feature to me.
 

 

Reply #28 Top

It would be cool if a Certain Dungeon or Quest required entering an Astral Plane to defeat some Demon or Wraith that has possessed something or someone ... alot like the relevant "Fade"-related quests in Dragon Age: Origins.

The first time that sloth-demon entranced me into the Fade world ... that was quite fun. You can only use your Channeler, or a Powerful Mage, and its more about spell usage and Transformation (transformation was much easier in the Fade) than actual melee combat. Well, except for using your Tranformed self for Melee combat.

 

As far as giving the Whole map an astral over-lay, im not exactly sure. Although it would be nice if the Astral realm was ruled by a Pretender God, and you needed to summon the local denizens of the realm (ghosts, Wraiths, Spectres, Banshees, Angels, Demons, other Pretender Gods, wandering "trapped" mages' souls, et AL) aka win them over, to defeat the Pretender God and "take over" the Astral realm for yourself. There could even exist a Titan's Memory or two within. One would CERTAINLY NOT wish to encounter the spirit of an Ancient Dragon Lich-Lord. Much more powerful than your average dragon in the material world, with powerful magics and servants. Requires high level Channeler, and army of spiritual denezens to attempt combat. In general you would want to either physically avoid the Dragon Lich Lord or keep it pleased enough to not ROFLpwn you for offending it somethow.

The ancestors of civilization could exist over your lands ... so your own lands would contain the ghosts of your own peoples, somewhat more loyal to your side than the random wandering Spectre. An army that you killed, or cities of people you have destroyed would likely be rage-monsters or Wraiths or Banshees, and be extremely hostile to the Channeler or Mage that killed them. Say, an army you defeated would be hostile towards you, and an army you owned, that was defeated by the enemy would also be rabidly violent and fiercely loyal to you (optional). Not always loyal, but certainly violent, and certainly hating those that killed them the most. Those dying of a natural death would become more peaceful ghosts and spectres, and those with little to no Magical/Ether connection simply would be absorbed by the earth and not reside in such a place.

If you were to somehow gain dominion over the Ancestors of another Civilization, perhaps you could influence the relatively peacful spectres to haunt their own peoples ... for a price. Certainly they would fight wars in the Astral plane for you against Pretender Gods, Titan's Memories, ArchDemons, and Dragon Lich Lords.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting yti.Flash, reply 26
[ ] turn on/off astral plane

[ ] conserve/squander development time

... doesn't work so well as an option for end users.  Maybe an expansion can give this idea the attention it would need, but I don't think it belongs in the core game.

Reply #30 Top

same, probably better suited for the expansion pack "Elemental: Planes of Torment"

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 28
It would be cool if a Certain Dungeon or Quest required entering an Astral Plane to defeat some Demon or Wraith that has possessed something or someone ... alot like the relevant "Fade"-related quests in Dragon Age: Origins.

The first time that sloth-demon entranced me into the Fade world ... that was quite fun. You can only use your Channeler, or a Powerful Mage, and its more about spell usage and Transformation (transformation was much easier in the Fade) than actual melee combat. Well, except for using your Tranformed self for Melee combat.

 

As far as giving the Whole map an astral over-lay, im not exactly sure. Although it would be nice if the Astral realm was ruled by a Pretender God, and you needed to summon the local denizens of the realm (ghosts, Wraiths, Spectres, Banshees, Angels, Demons, other Pretender Gods, wandering "trapped" mages' souls, et AL) aka win them over, to defeat the Pretender God and "take over" the Astral realm for yourself. There could even exist a Titan's Memory or two within. One would CERTAINLY NOT wish to encounter the spirit of an Ancient Dragon Lich-Lord. Much more powerful than your average dragon in the material world, with powerful magics and servants. Requires high level Channeler, and army of spiritual denezens to attempt combat. In general you would want to either physically avoid the Dragon Lich Lord or keep it pleased enough to not ROFLpwn you for offending it somethow.

The ancestors of civilization could exist over your lands ... so your own lands would contain the ghosts of your own peoples, somewhat more loyal to your side than the random wandering Spectre. An army that you killed, or cities of people you have destroyed would likely be rage-monsters or Wraiths or Banshees, and be extremely hostile to the Channeler or Mage that killed them. Say, an army you defeated would be hostile towards you, and an army you owned, that was defeated by the enemy would also be rabidly violent and fiercely loyal to you (optional). Not always loyal, but certainly violent, and certainly hating those that killed them the most. Those dying of a natural death would become more peaceful ghosts and spectres, and those with little to no Magical/Ether connection simply would be absorbed by the earth and not reside in such a place.

If you were to somehow gain dominion over the Ancestors of another Civilization, perhaps you could influence the relatively peacful spectres to haunt their own peoples ... for a price. Certainly they would fight wars in the Astral plane for you against Pretender Gods, Titan's Memories, ArchDemons, and Dragon Lich Lords.

Well, you started the post saying you weren't sure if you liked the idea and ended the post quite the opposite :-)

Reply #32 Top

Well, if someone is going to go with an idea, you might as well make it the best sort of Idea. Im still not sure if I want that in my basic "core game" of Elemental ... but if my idea for the Astral Plane was implemented than it would be (imho) hella awesome. Especially combining the idea that the Big Baddies in the Astral Plane can be anywhere from a lowly ghost to the MOST POWERFUL THING IN ELEMENTAL!!!! type of deal.

For once, I could actually play out my desire to Storm the Black City within the fade and conquer it. Secondly, it would be kind of cool to conquer an Astral plane made of ghosts, spirits, and ethereal beings. I'd just hate to run into those guys that have the silver swords that can cut your string of fate. Those guys are gnarly.