[BIG] Item/Equip Balancing

from Demigod Forums

As a way of addressing HP stacking issues (along with others im sure), Ive got a list here that ive made so that hopefully now, all items are of equal viablility. Its a long list since it practically covers all the items/equips in the game (excludes artifacts atm). *Just so you all know, Ive modded these so i can instantly release it if wanted.*

Feel free to suggest changes for particular items or even just comment, but if you do have suggestions then lay out the details like i have in my list. If this goes well, we may even be able to get it to go mainstream. 

So, here are the list of changes:

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# Gloves
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Gloves are never rlly threatening so i made a few buffs
to the equips below and tweaked some costs.

Gauntlets of Brutality
- increased dmg to 35

Gladiator Gloves
- reduced cost to 400 from 450

Gauntlets of Despair
- tooltip now displays hidden 8% attack speed benefit
- increased proc rate to 20% from 15%
- decreased mana drain to 275 from 300

Wyrmskin Handguards
- increased dmg to 25 from 15
- increased attack speed debuff to 30% from 15%

Doomspite Grips
- reduced cost to 5750 from 6750
- increased attack speed to 15% from 10%
- increased cleave range to 2 from 1.5

Gloves of Fell-Darkur
- reduced cost to 3000 from 3500

Slayer's Grips
- reduced cost to 3000 from 3300
- added 10% attack speed

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# Boots
----------------------------------------------------
To minimise health stacking and make boots unique,
I will be adding movement speed passives across
majority of boot equips. This also keeps things consistant and
may make upgrading choices easier.

Footman's Sabatons
- decreased cost by 50
- increased max health to 300 from 200
- removed max mana
- added 4 mana regen
- added 4 health regen

Assassin's Footguards
- reduced cost to 1500 from 1750
- added 5% movement speed

Unbreakable Boots
- reduced max health to 400
- increaded health regen to 10 from 5
- reduced max mana to 600

Desperate Boots
- removed max mana
- added passive 200 armor
- added 10% movement speed
- added 20% movement speed to secondary effect (on proc)

Ironwalkers
- changed secondary effect to "you receive 10% less damage".
- removed all minion benefits
- added 500 max health
- added 500 armor
- added 5% movement speed
>> The speed passive is so that rook does not get
the secondary effect from his default speed. Slow rook
may now be a more viable option.

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# Chest
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I tried to justify the cost for the effectiveness of
these following equips. Armor is great but on its own
its less desired.

Armor of Vengeance
- reduced cost to 2750 from 3250

Platemail of the Crusader
- reduced cost to 4200 from 4500
- increased proc chance to 5%
- reduced secondary heal effect to 250 from 300

Groffling Warplate
- increased proc chance to 5%
- changed secondary effect to "you receive 10% less damage".
- reduced secondary effect duration to 7 secs from 10 sec

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# Helms
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Atm, we basically have a game of "deplete your mana"
then "refill at shrine" to say it bluntly. I dunno about everyone else
but i think that if you gonna invest in mana equips then you
should be rewarded with a noticeable change in regen rather
than just a set pool of mana. It would be more fun if you can stay
on the field without having to retreat all the time.

Scaled Helm
- increased mana regen to 6 from 4

Plate Visor
- reduced cost to 500 from 600
- added 200 armor

Vinling Helmet
- reduced cost to 3000 from 3300
- increased proc chance to 7% from 3%

Theurgist's Cap
- increased proc chance to 10% from 5%
- increased mana regen to 50% from 35%

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# Trinkets section
----------------------------------------------------
Rarely have i come across players who use majority
of the equips in this section. So i basically made a few
alteration with drops in cost aswell.

Bloodstone Ring
- reduced cost to 1500 from 1750
- reduced max health to 250 from 400
- increased life steal to 5% from 3%
- added proc effect
    - 10% chance to deal 50 damage each second
      for 3 seconds.

Ring of the Ancients
- reduced cost to 2000 from 2500
- increased damage to 40 from 30

Warpstone
- reduced cost to 4500 from 5500
- reduced cast time to 0.3 secs from 0.5

Nature's Reckoning
- increased cost to 1750 from 1500
- increased weapon proc chance to 20% (kept at 15% for ranged)

Twig of Life
- reduced cost to 2750 from 3000

Warlord's Punisher
- decreased cooldown to 25 secs from 30

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# Consumables
----------------------------------------------------
Ive taken a different approach with how potions could
be used. Ive dropped costs for more early game useage
and even spammability.

Health Potion
- reduced cost to 200
- reduced cooldown time to 4 secs from 8
- reduced heal amount to 600

Robust Health Potion
- reduced cost to 350 from 400
- reduced cast time to 2 secs from 3
- reduced health amount to 2250 from 3000

Mana Potion
- reduced cost to 175 from 200

Rejuvenation Elixir
- reduced cost to 250 from 300

Robust Rejuvenation Elixir
- reduced cost to 400 from 450

Capture Lock
- reduced lock time to 35 secs from 45

Restorative Scroll
- redcued cost to 150 from 250

Sigil of Vitality
- increased cooldown to 45 secs
- increased benefit duration to 30 secs from 20 secs.
- reduced max health increase to 30% from 50%

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# Achievement Items
----------------------------------------------------
Instead of having weak and strong items across the
board, I think a more balanced array of equips would be
more interesting instead of having redundant items in the list
that are never used. And as a result, theirs costs will be the same.

Saam-el's Cloak
- increased movement speed to 7% from 5%

Blood of the Fallen
- reduced max health to 600 from 800
- increased health regen to 10 from 5

Staff of the Warmage
- decreased max mana to 500 from 800
- increased attack to 25 from 15
- added 5 mana regen

Diamond Pendant
- increased max mana to 400 from 250
- added 80% mana regen

Symbol of Purity
- decreased cooldown to 25 from 30
- added 5 health regen

Amulet of Teleportation
- reduced cast time to 2 secs from 3

Dark Crimson Vial
- decreased cooldown to 30 secs from 45
- added 300 max health

Cape of Plentiful Mana
- decreased duration to 5 secs from 10
- increased mana regen to 600% from 400%
- decreased cooldown to 35 secs from 45

Charm of Life
- increased death penatly reduction to -30% from -10%

Magical Coin Pouch
- added 2 gold production

Brilliant Bauble
- added 10% Max Health increase
- added 10% max Energy increase

Furious Blade *new*
- removed max health
- added 20 damage
- increased attack speed to 10% from 5%
- reduced proc chanceto 10% from 15%
- increased proc effect duration to 7 secs from 5
- proc effect now grants...
    - 20% attack speed (used to be 30%)
    - 20% evasion

Wings of the Seraphim *new*
- increased cooldown to 60 secs from 45
- reduced affect radius to 5 from 8
- removed damage condition (doesn't cancel out on taking dmg).

Assassin Favor Items
Mard's Hammer
- added proc chance effect
    - 15% chance on hit to deal a 1.5x crit

Staff of Renewal
- removed max health
- removed max mana
- added 8 mana regen

Essence of Magic
- reduced cooldown to 35 secs from 45
- reduced mana regen to 5 from 7
- increased max mana to 420 from 210

Poisoned Dagger
- decreased debuff duration to 6 secs from 8

General Favor Items
Totem of War
- added 15% attack speed for minions

Tome of Endurance
- reduced max health to 300 from 400
- added 300 armor
- removed minion max health
- added 150 minion armor
- added "minions receive 10% less damage" effect

Pendant of Grace
- increased minion dodge to 20% from 15%
- added 5% movement speed
- added 5% minion movement speed

Ring of Divine Might
- increased damage to 25 from 15

Blood Soaked Wand
- decreased cast time to 1.5 secs


59,955 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

First of all, I suggest that you don't touch the achievement items and instead link your thread with morpheas' favor item balance mod which is pretty balanced after a long discussion.

Second thing, I think the most important factor which makes HP stacking powerful that you forgot to address is the heal mechanism of priests. As I suggested in another thread (reply 4) with other ideas, the heal amount should be a flat amount not a percentage based amount (200/400/600/800).

I like mostly what you have done with the items, although they need to be tested and balanced further if necessary.

About the two game breaking consumables, I think you have buffed them. Reducing the cooldown of the cap locks is a bad idea, I think this item should be kept as it is. For sigils I think the duration should be nerfed to 15sec not buffed.

 

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Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

First of all, I suggest that you don't touch the achievement items and instead link your thread with morpheas' favor item balance mod which is pretty balanced after a long discussion.

Well basically all i wanted to do here was give out a few suggestions as to how favor items could be, and try balance them out to each other so that there's no weak or strong favor item. Having weak items in the favor item list ultimately leads to them becoming redundant therefore "why are they even in the game?". But there shouldnt be any problem combining it with morpheas' thread if he's okay with it.

Second thing, I think the most important factor which makes HP stacking powerful that you forgot to address is the heal mechanism of priests. As I suggested in another thread (reply 4) with other ideas, the heal amount should be a flat amount not a percentage based amount (200/400/600/800).

I didnt want to touch these as of yet. Mainly coz i feel that players should be rewarded for how much health they have. As you can see in this massive list of tweaks lol, many of the non health benefit items have been buffed making them a more viable option than to just health stack. But i should be able to address the priest heals if you still want.

About the two game breaking consumables, I think you have buffed them. Reducing the cooldown of the cap locks is a bad idea, I think this item should be kept as it is. For sigils I think the duration should be nerfed to 15sec not buffed.

Im not sure, but i think uve misunderstood the changes. For cap locks, i reduced their "lock time" not there cooldown. So any one player cannot effectively chain lock a flag (unless they have cooldown reduction bonuses). 

Sigil - Well i nerfed the amount it gives and how long it takes to cooldown. If u want i can drop its lifetime to 20 secs again and leave the cooldown at 45 secs?

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

My mistake, I misunderstood the changes on the locks. Yeah 35 sec lock time sounds good. and 20 secs on sigils I think is better.

About priests, I really feel that the heals should be a flat amount. Im sure that I read in other threads people complaining about it.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

"About priests, I really feel that the heals should be a flat amount. Im sure that I read in other threads people complaining about it."

Question for you: Do you think that Sedna needs a nerf?

 

So. Let's make it a flat amount. Let's just say, for now, we do 200/400/600/800. It doesn't really matter, but let's just call it that for now. Currently, Sedna's Healing Wind II makes Monks EQUAL TO Bishops.

That is huge.

However, letting Sedna get 800 heals level 5 is also absurd. Typically you get around 500, and that's with the HP flag. You don't get above 800 for the good first 2/3rds of the game.

Alright, alright. That's OP. Instead, let's make her monks 50% more effective (which is another way of looking at it, and also matches what she has). So 300/600/800/1200. Now, Level 5 she is getting 300 heals when she used to get around 500.

If she wants to maintain the status quo, she has to invest several thousand gold into monks. That is really the big thing that Sedna has going for ever against other generals: for a 900 gold investment she matches other general's 2700 gold investments AND theirs don't work aroung her.

However, Senda typically get Currency. She can barely afford Banded Armor + Scaled Helm + Currency assuming there haven't been any kills. Now she is liability on the map because she has low damage output and her survivability has been effectively neutered.

Another way of looking at it if you do flat-based healing is that you neuter hp-stacking and instead get monk stacking. Which is better selling your current Monks and getting High Priests, which costs like 1400g (you're now getting 600 heals every 10 seconds or so. More if you are Sed) or buying Nimoth's and getting 500 hp pool. That is HUGE difference. Right now, Monks are an "investment". They help you hold lanes early game, and then they get gradually better as the game progresses since you get better items and level up and such. Flat makes it "just another item" albeit one only some demigods can get and heals for absurd rates. 

You could have Blood Erebus with Bishops in your face, level 5. Healing for 800 hp every 10 seconds. On top of Bite.

 

If you want to fix monks, you need to make them less useful IN combat while still retaining the ability for a person to not have to go to the shop. I propose that all Monks heal at half rates whenever their target has taken more than 100 damage in the last two seconds (this makes Spit really strong, however).

Healing Wind has it's normal effect when out of combat, and makes monks heal for full values when in-combat. (this is a dangerous nerf to Sedna when facing assassins, whoever).

Counter Healing allows Sedna's monks to heal like original Healing Wind II even when in combat.

 

This makes a person who goes Banded+Scaled be able to push someone with monks off of a flag, probably. However, after the person with monks stands by a tower for a minute, they can turn around and push THEM off. It makes item diversity occur more often in the game.

 

I also like what you did with Sigils. I think that's a decent way of balancing them out while retaining their use. Good job on that.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

okay about priests. I was changing em today and after doing rough calculations, using a set figure may even end up being more OP than what it is atm. 

Currently priests heal for 10/12/13/15% of targets max hp. Thats 750 health for a person who has 5k max health. Now you can health stack if you want to reap the best benefits from priest heals but with these current tweaks ive made to existing offensive items, HP stacking may not be much of an issue as I semi tested earlier today. 

(ive applied set figure for monks btw in the mod for now and see what more of a response i get on this issue).

 

This thread isnt getting as much attention as i hoped it would, is everyone happy with the current balance of the items?

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

I wouldn't mind seeing a big renovation to the item list myself. It would sake the game up a bit and make it almost new again. I would be happy with all of the changes you have suggested gkrit, they all are well thought out and nothing sticks out as odd.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

thx man... finally someone whos responded to this thread :)

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

This thread isnt getting as much attention as i hoped it would, is everyone happy with the current balance of the items?

The reason that you're getting such a lackluster response is that people like the imbalanced items. It's easy to destroy noobs who don't know bout' mah unbreakables vlemish, and nimoth. If you made this a mod on the other hand... you would get better results IMO. 

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

its is already a mod Split. check it out here item balance

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

yeh ... i thought id post it up here b4 i post the actual mod ... but i released it soon after int he end in the mods section. Thx izuz for providing the link.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

NP