Arthanis

Capship balance list

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Capship balance list

from Sins Forums

It is mine copy-pasted post from general balance topic, because that thread is dominated by many other balance problems, IMO making dedicated thread for caps is good idea.

1. I am going to edit first post after reading feedback

2. Thread purpose is simple: to give as accurate balance suggestions as possible

 

 

Global changes:

- Damage taken by Caps from ANTI-MEDIUM (LRF) reduced to 50% (from 75%)
- Damage taken by LIGHT ARMOR (LRF) from COMPOSITE (HC) increased to 200% (from 150%)
- Damage taken by LIGHT ARMOR (LRF) from CAPITAL (Caps) increased to 100% (from 75%)

- Shield regeneration rate on all caps increased to 4/sec (from 3/sec)
- Hull repair rate on all caps increased to 2/sec (from 1.5/sec)

- Capships Max trainable level increased to 4 (from 3)
- Capships Max trainable level after upgrade increased to 5 (from 4)
- Capships Max level trainable by Advent Mass Transcendence increased to 5 (from 4)



Capital Battleships:


Kol Battleship:
- Health increased to 3300 (+300, from 3000)
- Shields increased to 1450 (+200, from 1250)
- Beam DPS increased to 14.0 (from 9.0)
- Laser DPS increased to 13.25 (from 8.25)
- Armor increased to 6 (from 5)

- Railguns: Antimatter cost decreased to 60 (from 75)
- Railguns: Cooldown increased to 20 (from 6)
- Railguns: No longer slow target
- Railguns: Now reduce target max mitigation by 5%/10%/15% for 10 seconds
- Railguns: Damage changed to 300/600/900 (from 325/650/975)

- Finest Hour: Duration increased to 90 (from 60)



Radiance Battleship:
- Health increased to 2400 (+200, from 2200)
- Shields increased to 2050 (+300, from 1750)
- Beam DPS increased to 20.0 (from 15.0)
- Plasma DPS increased to 15.0 (from 10.0)
- Armor increased to 5.5 (from 4.5)

- Animosity: affected ships now are not controllable by their owner
- Animosity: Now give Radiance 1%/2%/3% bonus to shield mitigation
- Animosity: Duration reduced to 15 (from 20)



Kortul Devastator:
- Health increased to 2900 (+250, from 2650)
- Shields increased to 1675 (+250, from 1425)
- Wave DPS increased to 17.0 (from 12.0)
- Phase Missiles DPS increased to 10.8 (from 5.8)
- Armor increased to 6 (from 5)

- Jam Weapons: Affected strikecrafts get 1/2/3 damage/second in addition to already existing effects

- Volatile Nanites: Area Radius increased to 4000 (from 2000)
- Volatile Nanites: Damage on death area radius increased to 2000 (from 1000)
- Volatile Nanites: Area damage on ship explosion increased to 200 (from 150)



Capital Support:

Dunov Battlecruiser:
- Health increased to 3000 (+200, from 2800)
- Shields increased to 1225 (+100, from 1125)
- Autocannons DPS increased to 11.0 (from 6.0)
- Missile DPS increased to 11.0 (from 6.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)

- Shield restore: Restoration changed to 350/550/750 (from 250/500/750)

- Magnetize: Number of affected SC increased to 12/18/24 (from 8/12/16)
- Magnetize: SC collision damage increased to 30 (from 25)
- Magnetize: Range increased to 7500 (from 5000)
- Magnetize: Duration changed to 10s/15s/20s or 12/18/24 SC killed (from 10s/12.5s/15s or 8/12/16 SC killed)

- EMP Charge: Antimatter cost changed to 90/85/80 (from 100/90/80)
- EMP Charge: Range increased to 5500 (from 4500)
- EMP Charge: Area Radius increased to 3000/3500/4000 (from 2500/3000/3500)



Rapture Battlecruiser:
- Health increased to 2200 (+100, from 2100)
- Shields increased to 1825 (+200, from 1625)
- Laser DPS increased to 16.0 (from 11.0)
- Beam DPS increased to 14.0 (from 9.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)

- Vertigo: Range increased to 6000 (from 4500)
- Vertigo: Area Radius increased to 2500/3000/3500 (from 2000/2500/3000)

- Domination: Antimatter Cost reduced to 75 (from 150)




Antorak Marauder:
- Health increased to 2675 (+150, from 2525)
- Shields increased to 1375 (+150, from 1225)
- Pulse Beam DPS increased to 17.0 (from 12.0)
- Phase Missiles DPS increased to 15.0 (from 10.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)

- Distort Gravity: Gravity well range to Phase Jump reduction increased to 10%/20%/30% (from 8%/16%/24%)
- Distort Gravity: Area Radius increased to 10000 (from 5000)
- Distort Gravity: Duration increased to 45 (from 30)

- Subversion: Now increase Strikecrafts Build time in entire Gravity well by 100%/200%/300%
- Subversion: Ship build time increase increased to 100%/200%/300% (from 50%/100%/150%)
- Subversion: Structure Build Time increase increased to 100%/200%/300% (from 50%/100%/150%)
- Subversion: No longer stackable

- Phase Out Hull: Antimatter cost increased to 60/60/60 (from 60/50/40)
- Phase Out Hull: Cooldown time increased to 15/15/15 (from 5/3/2)
- Phase Out Hull: Duration increased to 15/15/15 (from 6/8/10)
- Phase Out Hull: Restored Shield on friendly ships increased to 200/400/600 (from 200/200/200)
- Phase Out Hull: Damage to Enemy Ships increased to 200/400/600 (from 200/200/200)
- Phase Out Hull: Now remove 75/150/225 Antimatter from enemy ship
- Phase Out Hull: Now restore 75/150/225 Antimatter on friendly ship






Capital Planet Killer:


Marza Dreadnauth:
- Incendiary Shells: damage rate increased to 5/10/15 (from 3/4.5/6)



Revelation Battlecruiser:
- Guidance: Antimatter cost reduced to 35 (from 75)
- Guidance: cooldown time reduced to 10 (from 20)



Vulkoras Desolator:
- Phase Missiles Swarm: Number of targets increased to 8/12/16 (from 3/5/7)
- Phase missiles Swarm: AM cost reduced to 75 (from 90)
- Phase missiles Swarm: Range increased to 7500 (from 5000)






Capital Carrier:



Sova Carrier:
- Heavy Strikecraft: damage buff increased to 15%/30%/45% (from 12%/24%/36%)
- Heavy Strikecraft: armor buff increased to 4/5/6 (from 2/3.5/5)

- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10



Halycon Carrier:
- Telekinetic Push: Cooldown increased to 20 (from 10)

- Anima Tempest: Cooldown reduced to 90 (from 180)

- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10



Skinatra Carrier:
- Microphasing Aura: Radius increased to 12000 (from 8000)

- Replicate Forces: Create 8 frigates or 4 cruisers (instead of 3 frigates or 3 cruisers)

- Repair Cloud reworked:
    Cooldown increased to 30 (from 12)
    AM cost increased to 120 (from 100/90/80)
    Duration 20s (from 10s)
    Now repair:
       * 3/6/9 hp/s on Strikecrafts
        * 15/30/45 hp/s on Frigates/Cruisers
       * 30/60/90 hp/s on Caps/Starbases/Buildings
        * (instead of 25/35/45 hp/s on Everything)
    Range increased to 4000/4500/5000 (from 3000/3500/4000)

- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10






Capital Colony Ship:



Akkan Battleruiser:
- Targeting Uplink: Now give 4%/6%/8% DPS increase in addition to already existing bonuses


Jarrasul Evacuator:
- Colonize: Now add 100%/150%/200% population grow increasese for 240s/480s/720s in addition to already existing bonuses
- Colonize: Now give 0/1/2 free levels of Civilian Infrastructure upgrade
- Gravity Warhead: range increased to 7500 (from 6000)

455,483 views 212 replies
Reply #101 from Sins Forums Top

Yes, it would hurt, but I think that a drop in SM for a duration would be better.  But honestly, that 30% is going to go right back up almost instantly if you are FFing the target.  I just don't think it would last long enough to do much...

Reply #102 from Sins Forums Top

It is not HUGE but is SIGNIFICANT. And it is only part of effect doing 400/800/1200 damage, ignoring Shield Mitigation and interruption target...

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top



So: Power Surge give up to 90 DPS buff. It is "slightly more" then "laughable" "6-7 DPS"
That's nerfed by shield mitigation, armor and the fact that 40% of that damage is done to some two random targets to the left and right from the Kortul, which may not even exist or may not be anywhere near ''primary'' on your targetting list.

So a level 10 fully upgraded Kortul will do
0.6 * .25 * (1+10*0.05)^(-1) * 90 = 9
9 more DPS to that level 10 fully upgraded cap in front of him. I maintain my opinion, this IS laughable. Nanites, Rad bomb, DA, any damaging ability laughs at PS at this moment. Except maybe GRG. It needs help.

explanation:

0.6                      - 60% of the guns are facing forward
0.25                    - assuming enemy is also a level 10 cap, it has 75% shield mitigation
(1+10*0.05)^(-1) - assuming 10 armor on the target
90                       - extra damage you mentioned

Reply #104 from Sins Forums Top

60 AM cost

20s recharge

400/800/1200 Damage ignoring (and not increasing) Shield mitigation

10%/20%/30% Shield Mitigation drop on Hit

Interrupt
You must be mad, with all due respect. Thats designate target+nanites+ion bolt for half the AM cost.
Sober up, this suggestion is freakin' crazy.

Reply #105 from Sins Forums Top

0.6                      - 60% of the guns are facing forward

But rest of weapons will hit something too. In 1vs1 scenario it is not important, but in real scenario (fleet vs fleet or at least Cap+support vs Cap+support) it is useful too.

0.25                    - assuming enemy is also a level 10 cap, it has 75% shield mitigation

Only if it hit 75% mitigation. In small scale battle Mitigation for most part of battle is slightly lower...

(1+10*0.05)^(-1) - assuming 10 armor on the target

Ok, but don't forget it affect hull damage only.

 

Anyway, 10 DPS buff to Kortul exist on suggestions list for a reason.

Reply #106 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Arthanis, reply 105

0.6                      - 60% of the guns are facing forward


But rest of weapons will hit something too. In 1vs1 scenario it is not important, but in real scenario (fleet vs fleet or at least Cap+support vs Cap+support) it is useful too.

The rest of the guns will tickle some two random targets for an extra 5 dps each, and those random targets will heal that no problem if the enemy has hohos on autocast or any healing ability for the matter.

Quoting Arthanis, reply 105
0.25                    - assuming enemy is also a level 10 cap, it has 75% shield mitigation


Only if it hit 75% mitigation. In small scale battle Mitigation for most part of battle is slightly lower...
I can't help but laugh here, sorry. Just a second ago the "real scenario" was fleet vs fleet, and now you bring a 1v1 as an argument? Just as I said, you keep picking up situations from the sky to help your arguments without any coherence. And the DPS of a level 10 Kortul with 3/3 PS is enough to max shield mitigation on a lvl 10 cap, but not yield much more than that.

Quoting Arthanis, reply 105

Ok, but don't forget it affect hull damage only.
 Well, you're not gonna kill the target by killing his shields, are you? Particularly as Vasari, the only race that can kill something without having to take out its shields, bringing a point that something does good damage to some other ship's shields makes Assailants and bombers question your brains.

Reply #107 from Sins Forums Top

You must be mad, with all due respect. Thats designate target+nanites+ion bolt for half the AM cost.
Sober up, this suggestion is freakin' crazy.

- All abilities from your list belong to ships with higher AM reserves then Kol.

- Kol is also Battlecruiser (mean: something more combat oriented then Colonizers). It justify both lower cost of combat abilities(remember of lower AM reserves and regeneration) and combat abilities being slightly stonger then non-battlecruiser eqivalents

- Nanites belong to COLONIZER. GRG is BATTLESHIPs ability. Nanites are also giving armor reduction... And effect work as long-time debuff. Single Mitiagtion drop is not equivalnt of long-time debuff.

- Ion Bolt? This ability is disabling entire ship for a duration while GRG will cause interrupt only... Veeeery weak argument.

- Designate target? Lol. One-time Mitigation drop (read notes, it is not reducing max mitigation for duration, it is only kicking mitigation actual value) is not even close in terms of effectiveness to 60s 40% damage increase on enemy target...

 

Reply #108 from Sins Forums Top

I can't help but laugh here, sorry. Just a second ago the "real scenario" was fleet vs fleet, and now you bring a 1v1 as an argument? Just as I said, you keep picking up situations from the sky to help your arguments without any coherence. And the DPS of a level 10 Kortul with 3/3 PS is enough to max shield mitigation on a lvl 10 cap, but not yield much more than that.

Fleet vs Fleet still desn't mean FF vs FF.

 

Well, you're not gonna kill the target by killing his shields, are you? Particularly as Vasari, the only race that can kill something without having to take out its shields, bringing a point that something does good damage to some other ship's shields makes Assailants and bombers question your brains.

Everything depends on situaton, but even Vasari cannot ignore shields completely.

Reply #109 from Sins Forums Top

- Kol is also Battlecruiser (mean: something more combat oriented then Colonizers). It justify both lower cost of combat abilities(remember of lower AM reserves and regeneration) and combat abilities being slightly stonger then non-battlecruiser eqivalents
Ahhh... so Kol has less AM and thus should have cheaper abilities.
Have you ever thought WHY he has less AM? Why all caps don't have the same AM pools? It's like saying that a big car has four chairs so a scooter should have four smaller chairs. lol.

- Ion Bolt? This ability is disabling entire ship for a duration while GRG will cause interrupt only... Veeeery weak argument.
My bad.

- Designate target? Lol. One-time Mitigation drop (read notes, it is not reducing max mitigation for duration, it is only kicking mitigation actual value) is not even close in terms of effectiveness to 60s 40% damage increase on enemy target...
I didn't understand that you meant a single drop. If that is so, the only gripe I have with the idea of yours is the damage. 1200 damage ignoring shield mitigation is 60DPS to shields, 30-40DPS to the most beefed up caps that can solo starbases (a level 10 vulkoras can solo a 2-offense 4-defense Argonev - done that yesterday. Still, your GRG would be eating that Vulkoras away like nanites). That's slightly too imba.
If you drop the damage to 300/600/900 I would be fine with it (remember, ignoring shield mitigation puts you only an armor-step away from nanites).
One might also throw in a badass, repulse-like knockback effect :P

Reply #110 from Sins Forums Top

Ahhh... so Kol has less AM and thus should have cheaper abilities.
Have you ever thought WHY he has less AM? Why all caps don't have the same AM pools? It's like saying that a big car has four chairs so a scooter should have four smaller chairs. lol.

Ok, so we have 2 ships:

 

Ship 1:

200 AM

1 AM/s regeneration

Ability cost: 50 AM

 

Ship 2:

400 AM

2 AM/s regeneration

Ability cost: 100 AM

 

Are these ships equivalents in terms of AM usage? No! They are not. Why? Because of other ships abilities kicking their antimatter pools. Ship 1 AM is two times easier to be kicked. And it already is huge disadvanatge. Making ship 1 abiliites cost similar to ship 2 costs is not "making seats no longer equal to car size", it is just giving double nerf to already weaker ship. Ships with lower AM pools are already more vulnerable to AM-negating abilities (DS, DA etc.). Making their abilities as expensive as their high-AM friends have is like killing them.

 

I didn't understand that you meant a single drop. If that is so, the only gripe I have with the idea of yours is the damage. 1200 damage ignoring shield mitigation is 60DPS to shields, 30-40DPS to the most beefed up caps that can solo starbases (a level 10 vulkoras can solo a 2-offense 4-defense Argonev - done that yesterday. Still, your GRG would be eating that Vulkoras away like nanites). That's slightly too imba.
If you drop the damage to 300/600/900 I would be fine with it (remember, ignoring shield mitigation puts you only an armor-step away from nanites).
One might also throw in a badass, repulse-like knockback effect

Nanites do 625/875/1125 damage total with 12s cooldown

GRG doing 400/800/1200 damage with 20s cooldown is already weaker ability(of course slightly cheaper, but Egg is colonizer AND has better AM reserves), even if we say that interrupt+10/20/30 mitigation drop is better then long-time armor reduction.

Reply #111 from Sins Forums Top

Nanites do 625/875/1125 damage total with 12s cooldown
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!! Nanites do 1125 damage over 45 seconds, don't smash all numbers around as you see fit, you're shaping them into misconception, if not lies.

Oh and now you're gonna say "ok, over 45 seconds but you can cast it on something else". I say fine, but then it's AM cost is not what you have stated before, but 75/12 = 6,25 AM/sec. Worse than my previous suggestion. Why don't you suggest a reduction of Nanite's Am/sec cost then?

It is the FUNDAMENTAL difference that nanites can not do 1125 damage to ONE target every 12 seconds whilst GRG CAN be spammed on one target. Hitting three ships at once is not as good as hitting one ship three times as strong, that's EXACTLY why Phase Missile Swarm is shit.
AND that is exactly why dealing 1200 non-shield-mitigated damage over 20 seconds for a measly 60 AM cost is OP.

I say again, 300/600/900 if not 250/550/800 would be right for the AM cost.

Reply #112 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Arthanis, reply 94
ok with 60 AM and 20s recharge (3.0 AM/s)? Anything above it will not work.

So:
60 AM cost
20s recharge
400/800/1200 Damage ignoring (and not increasing) Shield mitigation
10%/20%/30% Shield Mitigation drop on Hit

Interrupt

Single-handedly taking it from UP to insanely OP. Even if you only did the damage, shield ignoring, and 20sec cooldown, it'd be over nano-level.

 

:fox:

Reply #113 from Sins Forums Top

Ok...

What if reduce damage to 300/600/900 and keep rest proposed stats/abilities unchanged?

Reply #114 from Sins Forums Top

No, still OP.

What I modded my copy to was:

Damage from 325/650/975 to 400/800/1200, range from 6500 to 7000/7500/8000, antimatter from 75 to 60.

That and Flak Burst went to 80 AM and a little range buff.

 

:fox:

Reply #115 from Sins Forums Top

I have to agree with Kitkun.

 

You cant have it hit for 1200 Non Mitigation damage and drop mitigation by 30% thats a death sentence to anything.

 

Either go with the damage or go with debuffs, as much as I like the Kol to have it cake and eat it too, it cant.

Reply #116 from Sins Forums Top

 

Damage from 325/650/975 to 400/800/1200, range from 6500 to 7000/7500/8000, antimatter from 75 to 60.

 

But it is still AM-eating machine.... After 3 shoots Kol have 0 AM (of course this Kol is using AFF too)...

Reply #117 from Sins Forums Top

Er... I did change the cooldown to 10, too.

Anyways, 4 for a level 1, 7 for a level 10. No research, abilities, bonuses, etc.

 

:fox:

Reply #118 from Sins Forums Top

My concern is that an over-a-thousand attack is open for abuse, for example: your fleet shoots everything except the enemy cap and the Kol pounds on it for 1200 every 20 seconds with only 15% mitigation. Sure, if you focus it, the GRG will do only ~30% of its damage, which would be 400-ish. But if you keep your guns on other ships, GRG will do a thousand damage every 20 seconds. That's BOOM BOOM and the enemy cap is half dead while your fleet didn't even bother wasting a single pistol bullet on it.

You cant have it hit for 1200 Non Mitigation damage and drop mitigation by 30% thats a death sentence to anything
He meant a one time drop of 30% mitigation, not a max mitigation nerf for a time like subverter's disrupt shields.

Reply #119 from Sins Forums Top

True enough on the damage.

He meant a one time drop of 30% mitigation, not a max mitigation nerf for a time like subverter's disrupt shields
What in the world does that mean? :X

 

:fox:

Reply #120 from Sins Forums Top

It mean railgun hit kicks actual mitigation by 30% (up to 15% minimum), but after that mitigation increase under fire normal way.

Example:

Ship X has 60% mitigation. lvl3 Railgun hit ship X doing it's 1200 damage and reduceing mitigation by 30% (to 60%). Because ship X is under light/heavy fire, mitigation return slowly/fast to 60%.

Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top

Ah, aha. Doesn't sound so absurd now. Though I was thinking more in the confines of what's currently possible in the engine.

 

:fox:

Reply #122 from Sins Forums Top

What in the world does that mean?
Yea I didn't grasp this idea at first as well. I thought he wanted to wrap a subverter, a nanos and an interrupt in a nice spammable package. But it's not that bad. Just the damage has to be less "abusable".
I mean, it should do respectable damage reliably. Thus my (approval for the) suggestion that it ignores shield mitigation and at the same time does ~800-900 damage at max level. That way, a high armor target (caps) will be able to mitigate that to 500-600... Hmm... on the third thought, maybe 250/500/750 would be better.... anyways, it should not allow for tricks like the one I described that could let the Kol do 1000 damage every 20s for 60AM. I know that in order to respectably damage a focused target (which has max mitigation) it seems natural to bump the damage to 1200 or 1500 or whatever (so that it gets mitigated to some sensible 500-600), but that opens up back doors for abuse. If GRG did 1800 damage as some suggested, a Kol could get rid of any cap ship in 40 seconds. (1500dmg - 20 sec - 1500 dmg - 20sec - 1500 dmg - focus fire on anything that is left of the target - good night).

Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top

What about this:

- 60 AM

- 20s cooldown

- 250/500/750 damage ignoring Shield Mitigation AND not increasing Shield Mitigation value

- reduces target actual mitigation by 10%/20%/30% on hit

- Act as Interrupt

?

Reply #124 from Sins Forums Top

Eh, I still think droping down by 30% is a bit much. And GRG doesnt need to be an interupt, TEC has plenty of abilites that interupts already.

 

-reduces target actual mitigation by 10%/15%/20%

-no interupt

Reply #125 from Sins Forums Top

Don't forget that it also halves the target's max speed for 10 seconds already.

 

:fox: