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Stardock, that's a bit harsh

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Stardock, that's a bit harsh

from Demigod Forums

Quote from Istari

The announcement and store link were scheduled to go up today but the plan has changed to simply add it to everyone's accounts with the consequence being that there will be no additional demigods or maps added since it is pretty clear that the amount of hostility would overcome any value of the additional content.
I am almost speechless o_O

If Istari is really being serious here... I mean... he can't be... but if so, Stardock is actually actively destroying Demigod and the Community by letting the hostile trolls who whined about the DLC system get to them. This just can't be true? I mean that's simply military style punishment. A few guys are hostile and you guys decide to punish the whole community.

 

After all, if this is the response of a free Demigod being added to the game one can only imagine what the response would have been to content that cost money.
Again, I can't believe that I am reading this from a Stardock employee... Istari, you seem to have completely misjudged the situation. The exact opposite would happen, if there was content that cost money. People were complaining that they had to go through this procedure for free content. They simply did not understand why they have to do this, since they got Demon Assassin automatically too. If you offer DLC that cost money in the future there would certainly be not such an outrage about the system. The system is perfectly fine and simple for DLC that cost money. In the eyes of the complainers the hassle of adding Occulus manually to your account for free was simply pointless.

demigod
17,658 views 76 replies
Reply #51 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Riao, reply 50

Frogboy:

"From here, we'll see how the game evolves.  There's a lot of "stuff" that will get added to Demigod via Impulse in the coming months but we won't be paying for additional maps and demigods to be made."


So that's not to say that they won't be made--just that Stardock won't be paying for it?  I certainly hope so.  I play this game often--mostly offline.  I would certainly be willing to pay a couple of bucks for each new map/DG that was made.

What he basically said is their wont be any new demigods or maps because it is stardock who has to pay for them. If they are not paying; we are not getting.

Reply #52 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46

We want users to be happy with the game. We are happy with Demigod. We like hanging out with many of the members of the community. But I think it's clear that it would be a huge mistake to try to release future non-free updates for Demigod (i.e. map or demigod modules). Certainly, some people would buy such content. But not enough to where I would feel comfortable justifying our team or asking GPG's team work on it, especially when it would likely generate a great deal of ill-will by people who feel entitled to unlimited free content -- and who are very vocal.
 

I'm sorry Brad, but this is still a d*** move on the part of you and Stardock.

Yes, I've been vocal about my dislike for nickel and diming DLC strategies but I am in full support of an extremely content rich expansion pack. I don't feel entitled to free content and I fully support paying for content that is worth the price, but why are 'expansion packs' so taboo now? Why does it have to be insignificant DLC updates that makes consumers feel like they're getting ripped off/milked? Some people don't mind paying a small fee for every update release but I sure as hell do.

So this is how it's going to be then? We complain and you then punish everyone who didn't?

 

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #53 from Demigod Forums Top

Some people don't mind paying a small fee for every update release but I sure as hell do.

No offense, but too bad, most people prefer dlc....

Reply #55 from Demigod Forums Top

Stardock can you at least try and add successfull mods with a universal patch every few months!

Reply #56 from Demigod Forums Top

successfull mods

I read this as bug fixes cause almost nobody uses the mods in multiplayer, an exception being the AI mod by peppe that really helps single player

Reply #57 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46

Hi guys, ...

GPG doesn't have an official forum for us to complain to them, so we complain to you.

Except for the week where Stardock gave us updates every couple days for connection issues, this game's support has been crap. Not enough for a multiplayer exclusive game that requires constant support and tweaking and updates! The updates that have been provided have been good, but they're too few and far between to maintain interest. We've requested many pathing/AI bugs to be fixed and they are still here 9 months later. We've requested UI updates and requests and nothing has changed. If SD is paying for GPG updates, you certainly aren't paying enough because GPG fails to put any priority or effort into supporting this game beyond what 1 developer they can retask from their other projects. If GPG can't support the game, and SD agreed to publish this game, you deserve some of the blame here for not realizing the commitment that this game would require post-launch. If SD isn't able or willing to pay enough to compete with the big boys in the multi-player realm, I don't know what you're doing publishing a game like Demigod.

I want this game to succeed, I can see the potential there to be truly a competitive game. It's just with the level of support that is being given to the game for updates and the lack of ability for the community to fix the game properly (no map editor, no demigod generator, no UI click control, no mod distribution) there really isn't much choice but to leave this game as there are other strategy games out there that can provide a better gameplay experience. Demigod wasn't even on the IMPULSE top 10 last week yet Sins of a Solar empire remains. This game is dead.

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Reply #58 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Cowbuttzex, reply 43
This is absolutely rediculous,  a hand full of negitive comments on the INTERNET and a company gives up. Wow.....

 

This

 

Oh and I'm gonna call this one... Yup this equals no less than a total fail and how not to release a patch...

Fail on Stardock Fail on...

 

 

Reply #59 from Demigod Forums Top

I do not think Stardock is being Harsh at all this community is aweful I am suprised that they have stuck around this long.  A few negative comments is one thing, but constant badgering and discontent with a company that has the best customer servive I have ever seen in a gaming company, is quite another.

Reply #60 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Ferazel, reply 57

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46
Hi guys, ...



GPG doesn't have an official forum for us to complain to them, so we complain to you.
This. 

I went on the GPG website under Support->Demigod and was redirected here.  What does stardock expect us custmers to do?  This is our only avenue of communication with the devs of this game, which in its current state is an unfinished product. 

This game has been out for nearly a year now and yet still plays with the stabillity of a beta in its embroynic stage.  The networking layer and stability of the game overall was so atrocious upon release (being proxied with 500 ms ping to players in the same CITY as me, exceedingly high crashes) that I gave this game a break for 6 months waiting for issues to be resolved.  I have come back last month (December 2009) to a patched game that still gets an exceeding number unhandled exceptions if I DARE to alt tab.  This is reduced only when I go in window mode.  I also get invalid game states and random crashes on a FREQUENT basis.

Stardock pulled up their sleeves on this one and decided to "take responsibility" coz their name was on the game cover box.  Why then do they not simply forward all these complaints to GPG?  Tell them to revamp the networking code and implement a clone of the system currentl in use for Legaue of Legends.  Client server interface, zero delay upon input (even with 300 ms to a server from where I play), matchmaking system, reconnect upon disconnect.  This way people can play premades and play 10 man games every game and get matched in such games in under a minute rahter then spending half an hour to get a game started.

This would be the only thing that could bring this game back.  Had it been done upon release this would have been the most played moba out there, coz its strategy is simply the richest.  Shame really.  Awesome ideas, awesome concepts, awesome graphics yet worst stability / networking interface ever for a so called finished product.

Reply #61 from Demigod Forums Top

I like this game. I'd pay for DLC if it was resonably priced. Financial gain would probably expedite a demigod making process and I'm all for it. It dissapointing to see this fall through.

Othello

Reply #62 from Demigod Forums Top

Note to self: send Brad Wardell and crew a bottle of wine with a card attached that reads "Thanks for putting up with the scum of the internet for as long as you did. You're better people then I - ZehDon".

Reply #63 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Ferazel, reply 57

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46
Hi guys, ...



GPG doesn't have an official forum for us to complain to them, so we complain to you.

Except for the week where Stardock gave us updates every couple days for connection issues, this game's support has been crap. Not enough for a multiplayer exclusive game that requires constant support and tweaking and updates! The updates that have been provided have been good, but they're too few and far between to maintain interest. We've requested many pathing/AI bugs to be fixed and they are still here 9 months later. We've requested UI updates and requests and nothing has changed. If SD is paying for GPG updates, you certainly aren't paying enough because GPG fails to put any priority or effort into supporting this game beyond what 1 developer they can retask from their other projects. If GPG can't support the game, and SD agreed to publish this game, you deserve some of the blame here for not realizing the commitment that this game would require post-launch. If SD isn't able or willing to pay enough to compete with the big boys in the multi-player realm, I don't know what you're doing publishing a game like Demigod.

I want this game to succeed, I can see the potential there to be truly a competitive game. It's just with the level of support that is being given to the game for updates and the lack of ability for the community to fix the game properly (no map editor, no demigod generator, no UI click control, no mod distribution) there really isn't much choice but to leave this game as there are other strategy games out there that can provide a better gameplay experience. Demigod wasn't even on the IMPULSE top 10 last week yet Sins of a Solar empire remains. This game is dead.
This. + 1 Karma from me Ferazel.

Virtually one the best written posts I have ever seen on these forums which perfectly summarizes the current situation.  I have bolded the parts which I especially agree with.

Personally I also want this game to succeed as strategy and depth wise wise, Demigod is still the best moba out there.  That said its stability / support / playability is just too sub par for a finished product.  I have been playing league of legnends for the last 3 months which included a month of beta.  Do you know how many crashes I have had? Zero.  Disconnects?  About 5 out of some 300 games.  And 3 of them I was able to reconnect back.  Average waiting time for a game of 10 people?  30 seconds, thanks to the matchemaking system.

Stardock you need to understand that from a customer perspective this is what people are coming to expect.  This is the new standard.  While there can be stability issues in the beggining people expect them to be ironed out after a while.  In this case they were not.  The moba genre should be using a mathcmaking system and not be dealing with lobbys anymore.  People should be able to reconnect upon disconnecting.  Perhaps this much needed network overhaul could be used to spearhead / justify an expansion?  With it you could set up servers in US West and the EU for people to play on, a matchmaking system and for those who are unwilling to get the expansion they would be stuck with the current P2P lobby system.

This way you could release a fresh new product with an expansion AND get positive reviews with your newly done, stable client / server interface.  Its the only way you can ressurect this product.  And, considering the potential of this game, would be a damn good investment.

Reply #64 from Demigod Forums Top

I have one additional thing to say though.

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46
And of course, we've seen how people reacted to yesterday's update that added an additional Demigod.  

We want users to be happy with the game. We are happy with Demigod. We like hanging out with many of the members of the community. But I think it's clear that it would be a huge mistake to try to release future non-free updates for Demigod (i.e. map or demigod modules). Certainly, some people would buy such content. But not enough to where I would feel comfortable justifying our team or asking GPG's team work on it, especially when it would likely generate a great deal of ill-will by people who feel entitled to unlimited free content -- and who are very vocal.
I hope you are not making this decision because of the reaction of the Occulus update. I'll iterate again: many people were simply confused about why they suddenly have to go through the Impulse store to unlock Occulus, when they got Demon Assassin without doing that. If there was to be DLC with cost in the future, people who want to buy it won't mind this. It's simply a wrong conclusion to think that people won't ever buy a DLC just because they didn't want to jump through hoops for the free DLC.

Furthermore, some people simply had problems with the unlocking, which has nothing to do with the way of how the users unlocks DLC itself. So some negative comments were fueled by that. Unless you say that you don't want to provide any DLC anymore, becuause the system itself has some bugs, this shouldn't influence the decision either.

So the actual amount of people complaining about DLC that cost money was very low. We already knew that you planned on doing this after all. The Occulus update was just ill-faited because no announcement was made prior to the release on how to unlock him or simply because of the decision to test the unlock system (for whatever reason) for DLC even though it was a free DLC, instead of unlocking him for everyone right away.

Reply #65 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Zakariel, reply 63

Quoting Ferazel, reply 57
Quoting Frogboy, reply 46
Hi guys, ...



GPG doesn't have an official forum for us to complain to them, so we complain to you.

Except for the week where Stardock gave us updates every couple days for connection issues, this game's support has been crap. Not enough for a multiplayer exclusive game that requires constant support and tweaking and updates! The updates that have been provided have been good, but they're too few and far between to maintain interest. We've requested many pathing/AI bugs to be fixed and they are still here 9 months later. We've requested UI updates and requests and nothing has changed. If SD is paying for GPG updates, you certainly aren't paying enough because GPG fails to put any priority or effort into supporting this game beyond what 1 developer they can retask from their other projects. If GPG can't support the game, and SD agreed to publish this game, you deserve some of the blame here for not realizing the commitment that this game would require post-launch. If SD isn't able or willing to pay enough to compete with the big boys in the multi-player realm, I don't know what you're doing publishing a game like Demigod.

I want this game to succeed, I can see the potential there to be truly a competitive game. It's just with the level of support that is being given to the game for updates and the lack of ability for the community to fix the game properly (no map editor, no demigod generator, no UI click control, no mod distribution) there really isn't much choice but to leave this game as there are other strategy games out there that can provide a better gameplay experience. Demigod wasn't even on the IMPULSE top 10 last week yet Sins of a Solar empire remains. This game is dead.This. + 1 Karma from me Ferazel.

Virtually one the best written posts I have ever seen on these forums which perfectly summarizes the current situation.  I have bolded the parts which I especially agree with.

Personally I also want this game to succeed as strategy and depth wise wise, Demigod is still the best moba out there.  That said its stability / support / playability is just too sub par for a finished product.  I have been playing league of legnends for the last 3 months which included a month of beta.  Do you know how many crashes I have had? Zero.  Disconnects?  About 5 out of some 300 games.  And 3 of them I was able to reconnect back.  Average waiting time for a game of 10 people?  30 seconds, thanks to the matchemaking system.

Stardock you need to understand that from a customer perspective this is what people are coming to expect.  This is the new standard.  While there can be stability issues in the beggining people expect them to be ironed out after a while.  In this case they were not.  The moba genre should be using a mathcmaking system and not be dealing with lobbys anymore.  People should be able to reconnect upon disconnecting.  Perhaps this much needed network overhaul could be used to spearhead / justify an expansion?  With it you could set up servers in US West and the EU for people to play on, a matchmaking system and for those who are unwilling to get the expansion they would be stuck with the current P2P lobby system.

This way you could release a fresh new product with an expansion AND get positive reviews with your newly done, stable client / server interface.  Its the only way you can ressurect this product.  And, considering the potential of this game, would be a damn good investment.

Wow it took 3 pages for someone to bring LoL into shesh I am tired of hearing the same crap over again.

Reply #66 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting synnworld, reply 65
Wow it took 3 pages for someone to bring LoL into shesh I am tired of hearing the same crap over again.
Fanboi anyone?  You mean the crap about how LoL's matchmaking system allows players to start 10 man matches in under 30 seconds usually with players around your skill level?  Thats not crap.  If you wanna talk crap then feel free to criticize the gameplay of LoL itself as its a shallow pushfest with no meta strategy unlike DG.  That said, a lesson could really be learned from the network side of LoL and should be used in any DG expansion, with the current netcode completely overhauled. 

Reply #67 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Zakariel, reply 66

Quoting synnworld, reply 65Wow it took 3 pages for someone to bring LoL into shesh I am tired of hearing the same crap over again.Fanboi anyone?  You mean the crap about how LoL's matchmaking system allows players to start 10 man matches in under 30 seconds usually with players around your skill level?  Thats not crap.  If you wanna talk crap then feel free to criticize the gameplay of LoL itself as its a shallow pushfest with no meta strategy unlike DG.  That said, a lesson could really be learned from the network side of LoL and should be used in any DG expansion, with the current netcode completely overhauled. 

Fan boy where? I can tell you right now you aren't talking about me. Demigod was the very first product distributed by Stardock that I have ever bought. Hell if it wasn't for Demigod then I wouldn't know Stordock even existed, or gas powered games for that fact. So fan boy I am not, but tired of hearing the same shit from all you LoL lovers saying how it is so better then demigod. News flash; we don't give a damn. Last time I checked the big words at the top of the page said DEMIGOD; the pictures being shown are of Unclean Beast, Regelus, Torch bearer, Lord Erebus, Oak, and Queen of Thorns. Last time I checked they are all in Demigod; not LoL so gtfo of here with the LoL bullshit. Go to their damn forums and talk about how much better they are, or better yet go play the damn game instead of talking about how good it is. Because guess what I won't miss you, Stardock won't miss you, and I doubt the game and its members will miss you as well. All you and many others are doing is bitching about crap you don't control, and can't change simple as that. Now STFU and either play the game like a good little gamer, or get lost either way Stardock is going to do what they want.

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Reply #68 from Demigod Forums Top

I hope you are not making this decision because of the reaction of the Occulus update. I'll iterate again: many people were simply confused about why they suddenly have to go through the Impulse store to unlock Occulus, when they got Demon Assassin without doing that. If there was to be DLC with cost in the future, people who want to buy it won't mind this. It's simply a wrong conclusion to think that people won't ever buy a DLC just because they didn't want to jump through hoops for the free DLC.

 

Furthermore, some people simply had problems with the unlocking, which has nothing to do with the way of how the users unlocks DLC itself. So some negative comments were fueled by that. Unless you say that you don't want to provide any DLC anymore, becuause the system itself has some bugs, this shouldn't influence the decision either.

So the actual amount of people complaining about DLC that cost money was very low. We already knew that you planned on doing this after all. The Occulus update was just ill-faited because no announcement was made prior to the release on how to unlock him or simply because of the decision to test the unlock system (for whatever reason) for DLC even though it was a free DLC, instead of unlocking him for everyone right away.

We will continue to support Demigod and put up an updates GPG gives us as well as lobby for continued fixes to the game.  All we're saying is that the business case to produce more DLC, even non-free DLC, was tenuous to begin with.  

At the end of the day, we're a business and resources are finite. Those resources could be put into a new game or Sins of a Solar Empire or elsewhere.  The fairly considerable investment into Demigod post-release has generally been met with hostility. We just don't think it would be a good idea to try to charge money for DLC and there's no budget (or will) to do a full-blown expansion.

 

Reply #69 from Demigod Forums Top

Yes, I understand and accept the business decisions. But you are still mentioning the "hostility". It just bugs me that you are letting the forum trolls win, so to speak.

Reply #70 from Stardock Forums Top

One day people are going to learn that people who post on forums don't talk for everybody.

Reply #71 from Demigod Forums Top

Yes, I understand and accept the business decisions. But you are still mentioning the "hostility". It just bugs me that you are letting the forum trolls win, so to speak.

It's a PR issue. Good will. Plus, it's a hassle to deal with people like Ferazel. If you think the forums are rough, you should see the kinds of stuff support has had to deal with. :)

Reply #72 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 71

Yes, I understand and accept the business decisions. But you are still mentioning the "hostility". It just bugs me that you are letting the forum trolls win, so to speak.
It's a PR issue. Good will. Plus, it's a hassle to deal with people like Ferazel. If you think the forums are rough, you should see the kinds of stuff support has had to deal with.
how about giving us a sample so they know.

Reply #73 from Demigod Forums Top

Forums definitely don't speak for everybody, I read more than I post here and the people I know and play Demigod with mostly don't use the forums at all.  However, we do all agree that we would be willing to pay money for new content for this game and didn't mind the method used to unlock Occulus. We also agree that we would pay the $30-50 dollars for an expansion because it is such a fun, addicting game.  Maybe there are not enough players to justify that though.  It is a shame that there are enough griefers out there to influence business decisions. I also think that the majority of people generally understand Stardock and GPG have different roles in this games development and in the end, the bottom line will be the decider. Anyway, its not always doom and gloom out here, so hang in there and keep up the good work!

Reply #74 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting synnworld, reply 67
Fan boy where? I can tell you right now you aren't talking about me. Demigod was the very first product distributed by Stardock that I have ever bought. Hell if it wasn't for Demigod then I wouldn't know Stordock even existed, or gas powered games for that fact. So fan boy I am not, but tired of hearing the same shit from all you LoL lovers saying how it is so better then demigod. News flash; we don't give a damn. Last time I checked the big words at the top of the page said DEMIGOD; the pictures being shown are of Unclean Beast, Regelus, Torch bearer, Lord Erebus, Oak, and Queen of Thorns. Last time I checked they are all in Demigod; not LoL so gtfo of here with the LoL bullshit. Go to their damn forums and talk about how much better they are, or better yet go play the damn game instead of talking about how good it is. Because guess what I won't miss you, Stardock won't miss you, and I doubt the game and its members will miss you as well. All you and many others are doing is bitching about crap you don't control, and can't change simple as that. Now STFU and either play the game like a good little gamer, or get lost either way Stardock is going to do what they want.
You are the fanboi.  You are so blinded by your fanboism that you are simply not reading my posts. I am not saying LoL per se is better then DG; quite on the contrary - LoL is a shallow pushfest.  On the other hand though, its networking system wins over DG hands down and its THIS that I am trying to bring to SD's attention.  And I am doing so in the hope that they might adopt it for a future expansion.

Check post # 63 in which I had previousy bolded the following that I am requoting for your convenience.

Demigod is still the best moba out there.
Feel free to tell me which part of this that I had written in that post you do not understand.  L2Read before blindly flaming people.

@Frogboy; I know I appear harsh and uncomprimsing at my thoughts of the current stability of this game.  Bear in mind that I am saying this from a purely customer standpoint who has a lot of other products to compare this one with.  The only reason I am posting is because I do care about this game; I believe it has potential.  I have said it before and will say it again; This is the best moba out there.  That is why this game still has business potential if you iron out the issues in an expansion AND follow LoL's netcode template, even if it means an overhual of the current system.  In the long run it will be worth it. 

Reply #75 from Demigod Forums Top

Frezel sumarize history of this game qutie well. And seriusly guys u just rebalance Oculus (and it took you almost 2 months rotlf)

Torch AA bug is so pathetic that is not even worth mentioning here (1 year to fix that) Not to mention bugs that you noticed (minion spamming health bug). I would be very hard to find another game online who takes that long to fix such simple issues.

Minion health bug solution is posted on this forums. It is fixed for you for free by the toxic comunity u guys hate so much, yet still you are too lazy (proud, stubborn?) to put it into update. I mean what else do you want from this comunity. Othere think is it took almost 10 months to balance 8-10 items to be somehow usefull (people were crying for that for half year)

So yeah comunity who makes you new modes, balance modes and lua codes to fix bugs can get toxic when they see nothing has been done.

Maybe its not stardocks job you will say, so what about banning obvius exploiters/hackers and fixing the god dam stats?

Thats not your job either?? so um.. what is???