How about a free starbase on your homeplanet at the beginning of the game?

Actually, that makes strategic play largely pointless.  Then why do we even need to get planets for income?  Just have the game give everyone 100 credits per second and have them throw masses of ships at each other until they are blue in the face.

Um, you mean thats not what happens already?

no, thats not what happens at all, what games are you watching???

Personally, I'm a little disappointed in the direction sins is heading with the new faster setting. The whole reason I liked sins is because it was a slightly slower paced game. By that I mean if you selected all fast and no quickstart, the game fleshed out probably in the range of 30 min to 4 hours, depending on how good a match it was.

Now the game is all about speed speed speed, fleet fleet fleet, rush rush rush. Little disheartening for me honestly.

I want to beat you because I understand how to expand, colonize, economize, and militarize all at the same time BETTER than you. And you know what? I did at one point. But then came  quickstart. WHICH I HATE. And now comes this newer faster setting. This isn't why people were drawn to sins. At least that's not what I think drew people to sins. I certainly can say that for myself, and considering this game was played up as a 4X game, I would think that the majority of people who originally were drawn to the game understood it was going to be a game of epic long lasting battles.

The sad thing is I'm in a very distinct minority of online players who feels this way. I like no quick start because it forces you to scout and plan ahead for how you're going to play the map instead of mindlessly rush. I don't like what this faster setting is going to do because it's going to make larger fleets EVEN quicker and earlier than before.

Perhaps I'm just being negative.  Perhaps this could flesh out to be a good idea and pan out well for the online scene. I won't judge it until I see it in action. My gut tells me, however, that I'm not gonna like it, but one can hope.

meh... the speed doesn't bother me that much

Pretty much. I'm bummed that the game has become "who can click faster" but c'est la vie. People don't like having to think and strategize nowadays...

I have been gone for quite some time now from the game altogether. However the main reason I played this game online was to out strategize people.

I loved those times when you could build up and crush those punny Illums spamers with advance Vasari tricks. Those were the the days but most of the time someone would get me in the early stages of the game. I did know how to stay alive but there were those "who can click faster" people who just run over me like that.

I loved playing sins but once I played online I could never again play the stuipid AI and that ruined it for me. The online is so small that even a 4 year old Battlefield 2 is huge compared to this commuity. I loved playing some of you guys and I will come back when school allows me but these signs make me wonder about what it will be like.

P.S. I just might be into Battlefield 2 when I play online again since is one of the best online games I ever played. So sorry if I do not come back.

i kind of agree, but, i think the truly great players are startegizing on the fly as well as moving at a quick pace, which makes them a force to be reckoned with.  You have to realize in this game you can't follow a single strategy, but rather keep trying multiple ones in different situations.  I've noticed you're a relatively new player in the community, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask, [DT]Star Player

Am I the only one who didn't notice much of an increase in speed on the 'new faster setting'?

I to preffer a slower pace and more strategizing, but the game is still all about that and not the fastest clicker, as far as i can tell.

Now, I find that a vain simplification.  No RTS has simply been about the fastest clicker.  I often give advice to players on micro, and this is rule #1:  It's not the number of clicks, it's how you use them.  Good micromanagement isn't about spamming clicks; in fact, spamming clicks isn't even useful.  Instead it's what you manage to achieve with those clicks, which requires intelligence and planning (read: strategy). 

That's because the game speed didn't become any faster.  Build speed, income speed, culture spread rate, these were what increased.  That may speed up the early pace of the game, and the size of the late game armies, but it doesn't actually make battles more frantic.

Ever played AOE II: The Conquerors? Just being fecicious

AoE is alot less clicking if you use the shift key.

the inablity to que more than 15 units is, annoying... and the forced "you must go to each barracks and que each barracks individually" is annoying as well...

but... AoE... i dont know... (hollyshizznts have you seen starcraft replays??) maybe the people i play agaisnt just suck.

By all means, hook up a neumatic clicking machine and we'll see just how well it does.  It's the intelligence behind those clicks that matters, not the sheer reflexes of the player.  If speed alone were the deciding factor behind winning and losing the AI should be king, which is clearly not the case in any game I've ever played.

Basically what I'm saying is quality is more important than quality.  However, if both players are of equal quality (that is to say, strategy and tactics), of course quantity (that is to say, speed and throughput) will be the deciding factor.  However, it's quite arrogant to claim the only advantage the opponent had going for them was faster speed, when in fact they're usually just as good in terms of strategy.

haha.. korean pro league=nuts.

i used to play starcraft, was fun, getting up to like 180 APM (actions per minute).

I play sins like  you, take my time and enjoy the experience, I do only play single player and the faster game speeds have no interest for me at all. Nothing scares away potential single players from going online more than  faster game settings.

Yeah... don't even go there.

Actually, while Starcraft is usually quite frantically paced, you can pull things off with ~60-80 APM no problems.  So long as you manage your bases relatively well you can get away with nominal micro.  However, you have to use your time very efficiently and keep a steady pace.  You won't be anywhere near pro, or even the higher level players for that matter, but you can be quite respectable this way.

ha well i dont know if primarily online players will buy diplomacy just for the action of faster speeds, while i do appreciate them fixing diplomacy for people that play Sins on single player, after another 10 days of testing, i still remain largely dissapointed, but i'm sure Ironclad will pull something out of their sleeves.

But after playing sins on multi player, No matter how improved the single player becomes. It doesnt make me want to play in single player. So me too, am quite disappointed.

I played the diplomacy beta and so far it would be useless for me. Since i dont do much civilian research anyway.

Not diplomacy but...

Are your own mines visible(show as icon) on opponent nations? cause i don't think it should show as an icon to enemies. (should be just graphic only)

Also i wish the ships had an movement option to move slowly backwards or something... So I can order then to shoot as they retreat backwards, and luring the enemy fleet, or something like that. But i think it might screw up the game.

I think it's just a matter of getting the right content additions into the game.  Adding more dangerous abilities that are accessible with the civic labs is definitely going to bring a new angle to the game and possibly make it possible to play higher up in the civic tree if you're not in the pocket.

Currently, culture is the only civic technology that really qualifies as "dangerous".  Everything else is either really high up the tree or can't actually harm or threaten your enemy.  Adding new civic technologies that can actually threaten an opponent will bring a new strategic angle and could potentially make it plausible to pursue higher level civic technology from a position other than the pocket.

I think the goal right now should be to introduced new content that makes the civic tree dangerous, and that will add the incentive for multiplayer gamers (well, for everyone really...)

You know, the funny thing about Entrenchment is that even though we all play Entrenchment online and prefer it to Regular Sins, you really don't see all that many starbased being built in online multiplayer, especially by non-Vasari players.  You don't see mines being deployed nor the long-range torpedo ships either.  The only thing Entrenchment really adds is Quick Start and the possibility of having starbases.  Perhaps Diplomacy would play out the same way online--people might do a little bit of the extra research or make a diplomacy ship or two and would probably most use the 25% faster speed.

I do like Entrenchment, but overall I'm skeptical as to whether or not the expansions are actually adding that much for the online game.

Really?  I see starbases in virtually every game I play.  Certainly if you're going on the offensive you're unlikely to use them, but if someone is defending it's almost assured to go up sooner or later...

As for mines, yeah, not much use in MP. I do however see starbases a lot. And you're right theyre mostly vasari (bout the only good thing theyve got going for them ATM IMO), but I do see transcencias at least once a day and Argonevs on occasion. I think they added a lot to the game, specifically being able to defend your HW while you're away, and while they aren't hugely reliable, they are much more so than the old defensive methods.