Ritual Magic

To make magic more interesting, I would like to see its mechanics go beyond simple cast and target.

What about a kind of ritual magic, that requires more than one spell before it reaches its primary effect (though it might have secondary effects before that).

Lets assume an army approaches one of the cities of a powerful channeler. He has a spell that can flood land to turn it into a deadly swamp for some time but that spell requires a nearby big water source. Since the approaching army knows that, it avoids going near the river. But the channeler has prepared with some water rituals to make a temporary magical way from the river for the water. Now he only needs to lure the enemy army close to the end point of his rituals which are invisible to mundane eyes and can then use his powerful spell.

Rituals like that would dissipate after some time so you can't prepare forever and you would either need to go there yourself or move an enchanted hero near there to work through him.

To add more spice maybe some rituals would require a unit to prepare the place for the ritual with a building.

An example: You want to protect a mountain pass with a magical barrier. To make one you have to build a kind of crystal at both ends of the barrier to contain the magic. Only then you can start imbue those crystals with the ritual magic and after you have imbued the second a magic barrier forms between them.

The rituals might also require a sequence of ritual spells that have to be cast within x turns of each other to complete the ritual circle. Or you might have different choices about how to continue after each such spell but the possible outcomes get fewer with each spell in the circle you cast.

Certain rituals might also require special buildings that are scattered around the map or only castable at certain times (like at full moon).

All these things can balance powerful spell effects and require you to actually have a good plan.

15,596 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

Im not sure about rituals ... but it could work. Im thinking of faction specific "haste" spells, wether working on a time-basis or a speed basis ... either way this powerful ritual would GREATLY speed the movement rate of friendlies in your territory and GREATLY decrease the speed of enemies in your territory.

That type of buff/debuff ... instead of "you die now!" ... are the kind of spells I would like to see. (at least from the powerful "ritual" perspective)

Reply #2 Top

If it is just a simple spell you cast and then it works in your territory then that is not the kind of ritual spells I was thinking about.

But if you would have to perform a ritual spell at each corner of the area you want that effect on then that is more the kind I am thinking about.

So lets assume the enemy knows that you have placed such a spell in a major part of your territory. He can just accept the spell and go for the target city he wants or he has the strategic option to try to take out the focus points of the ritual to allow him a fast strike against the city instead of a slow crawl. This would mean that splitting your army into small groups with a hero each that attack the focus points to break the ritual and a larger fast one to attack the city would make sense.

Reply #3 Top

an empire-wide buff/debuff which lasts for say ... 10 turns or so, is certainly not a "simple" spell

Reply #4 Top

I like the idea. The general concept, if I understand the original poster correctly, is that there would or could be composite elements, or rather a composite additive mechanics system, to magic. In other words, there would not (necessarily) be a "Spell X", but rather a spell Template X, which has certain minimum requirements (for minimum effects), but that the effects increase (in length, power, duration, scope) or are augmented (to include other, related effects) under certain circumstances, these being:

- time engaged in actively supporting the spell with X numbers of casters

- numbers and types of available [buildings, resources]

- additional knowledge of arcane craft [different breakthroughs researched]

 

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 3
an empire-wide buff/debuff which lasts for say ... 10 turns or so, is certainly not a "simple" spell

I think we talk about "simple" in a different way. Certainly that spell is interesting but its mechanics are still pretty simple as you just cast the spell and then get an effect for a time.

What I would like are interesting mechanics that require preparation.

Take the Spell of Mastery from MoM. That is what I would call a simple spell mechanic. You research it, you cast it, you win. But imagine if after researching it you would first have to build a focus building in one of your cities and then send out heroes to cast a ritual spell on one of each kind of node on both planes to tie their powers into your focus and only then you could cast the final spell at your focus that would make you win. Maybe that would offer your enemies further possibilities to counter your spell apart from killing you like if the tie into your focus is weak right after the ritual and you could perform a counter ritual to break it for some turns (which would of course require one of your enchanted heroes to get there in time).

Reply #6 Top

The concept is of course awesome, and I hope that rituals will be implemented into the game. By ritual, I mean a spell which you have to prepare for a few turns before you cast it.

I am not so sure about building altars... it seems interesting, but I don't thing the added complexity would pay off in terms of providing more fun. I have two proposals regarding rituals, and if you want, you can comment on any of them (or both).

Proposal #1

The preparation time of a spell is 10 turns (an example). Every turn -5 earth & -2 fire & -2 water would be consumed. If the player won't be able to provide a required amount of mana every turn, the spell will fail, and the player will have to start from the very beginning; otherwise, right from the 11th turn, he will be able to cast an earthquake. While the casting is free (no mana required), until the spell won't be cast, the maximum amount of stored earth mana will be reduced by 10, while the earth's & fire's by 5. Think about sustained abilities from Dragon Age (if you haven't played this game, then make SURE it will be your present for Christmas). If it happens that the sustained mana is greater or equal than your total mana storage, you will not be able to cast spells using the particular mana.

Proposal #2

Cost of preparing a spell is 50 earth, 20 fire & 20 water mana. Before starting the preparations, you have to have required amount of mana stored. Now you will have to wait 10 turns. From the 11th turn you will be able to cast the spell. The catch is that every turn after the 11th, you will have to spend 3 earth, 1 fire and 1 water mana, until - of course - you cast the spell.

---

As you can see, both systems are quite rigorous, but power comes with a price, doesn't it? I believe that rituals should be really powerful game shifting tools of war - not just expensive cast & forget spells.

No tons of useless techs - a carefully selected set of spells, which every one of them is unique and important.

No meaningless rituals - powerful, costly & game-shifting tools of war instead.

Your game. Your decision. Your failure or win.

Reply #7 Top

well, I like variety, so a bunch of extra units (or in this case item variations and weapon types) are not lost upon me. I personally like a hefty sized tech tree, it just gets me going. Of COURSE I want each tech to feel like an accomplishment, but on the other hand I don't want a tech tree so short it makes me think of Spore.

From what I have heard from the Dev Journals, it sounds like development is on the right track. Yay Stardock!!

Now, I will take a few lines to say that I am impressed with the overall Ritual idea, and having decisive, powerful, and expensive rituals might just be the best thing ever. For instance, maybe a Volcanoe Summon, or Destroying a city, requires a 10-20 turn casting time for your Sovereign. Perhaps this means the sovereign cannot cast any spells during this time, or as Red said, can cast spells that use different Mana types (cannot use any earth spells, and only limited fire and water spells)

Flash Flood/Typhoon, Tornado Alley, Volcanoe, Earthquake, Plague/Blight, and Eternal Famine, sound like good spells. Eternal Famine would either greatly reduce the land for 10-20 turns after the ritual is cast, or its simply a sustained ritual, and can be cast indefinitely with enough mana (but keeping your Sovereign occupied) or its an attack on terrain quality, and makes tiles permanently produce less food (and perhaps there are rituals to re-fertilize the land to permanently increase food out-put)

Reply #8 Top

 

  Ok this will take me a while to go through, I am not here to argue I am only going to tell you HOW I came to this path..... I am a truth seeker. I investigate conspiracies. It has come to my findings that most of the major world leaders and what not throughout time have been involved with secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rosicrucians, Golden Dawn, OTO, Skull and Bones, Jesuits, Knights of Malta, Electric Hellfire Clubs, Vril Society, and many many more...

   I have also concluded that our entire history, as well as the next million years, has been pre-planned, it's all scripted. They gave us all religions, be it Christianity, Islam, Budhism, Hindu, Jainism, Paganism, Satanism, Judaism, w/e, as it is all the same religion when you get to the top, same religion hidden in allegories and symbols. What we're looking at is a business plan. An "Age" is 2160 yrs (also called a Platonic Year after Plato). We are at the end of the Age of Pisces (Christianity) and entering into the Age of Aquarius (New Age, theosophy). Next stage of the plan... For we are all slaves in this global slave pen....

   I am not asking anyone to agree with me here, I am only here to share with you my concerns and to ask of some advice..... For a while I have been skeptical of getting into ritual magic, seeing the obvious freemason implications with such ritual quotes as for example "as above, so below." I have lighly dabbled in this in the past, before I figured all of this out.... And I am trying to be careful not to fall into what I find to be some new age sensationalistic nonsense. But I do think there may be some truth to magic, beyond all this new age "your aura is glowing" junk. And I find this quite possibly, the only road to higher spiritual knowledge. But, I am still a bit skeptical, as I am somewhat afraid I may be playing with forces I can't begin to even comprehend, and I do not wish to sell my soul, or to put it into bondage via come magical contract. So, I have decided to tread carefully.

 I am not into any of this wicca stuff or anything like that, while I do not plan on using such magic to harm innocent people, I also will not be bound by what I feel is new age sensationalist dogma or needless restrictions. Once again, it is not my goal to offend anyone, so if your one of those wiccans or neo-pagans, no offense, we can agree to disagree.

  My question is, where should I start for learning magic? Any books anyone can recommend?

Reply #9 Top

Magic can be a useful belief for anyone that is incapable of living with the sad truth that this dimension, our reality or universe, is without much more than the human animal is capable of perceiving. Life is boring and cruel and there is no guiding hand or unification to anything. Normally I would say get involved with your local church and believe in something ridiculous with the comfort of friends and meatloaf, but you are clearly a loner. So, find the hardest to find book on mysticism or magic. It won't matter which, only that you had to strive to find it. Then, lock yourself in a room for several days and choose a few parts that you find fit well with what you can handle accepting about the real world. Memorize that part and never tell anyone about it, except on forums where no one knows you very well. Now you can be as deluded as everyone else without harming your fragile psyche. 

Oh, and if you have a good enough imagination, buy Elemental: Fallen Enchantress this winter. It helps to play in a world that is interesting and can have the unification you seem to have fabricated for our reality. If you aren't already seeing a psychiatrist, I would suggest that too (after you purchase Fallen Enchantress).

 

Talk about 1st world problems...   

Reply #10 Top

 

   I honestly don't need your caniving rhetoric, I did not ask that you agree with anything I said. I've obviously done a ton more free thinking and research on what's happening than you could ever emotionally handle. Yet you project your weakness, your inability to consider reality, onto me. I am not the fragile one here, you are. I'm not here to argue with anyone, you think I'm crazy, fine. I could care less, maybe I think your crazy. I don't put much faith in psychiatrists either, theyr there to enforce group think as the "norm." Mass minded people have never done shit for humanity but screw it up more, for their own short-sighted selfish gains. Why are you on a forum about magic anyhow if your so convinced it's all bullshit?

Reply #11 Top

Why are you on a forum about magic anyhow if your so convinced it's all bullshit?

 

This is a GAME forum. You realized that? o_O

Reply #12 Top

Quoting seeker13, reply 10
 

I've obviously done a ton more free thinking and research on what's happening than you could ever emotionally handle.

 

Well I guess you forgot to do the research about which forum you are posting on. Is that something you couldn't emotionally handle? I apologize about my rude demeanor, but sometimes people just need a kick in the head to realize that all the energy they put into believing something is a waste of time. I will offer you the same thing I offer to to anyone that tells me magic is real or that there is one/many conspiracies that go back to the beginning of civilization, "Prove it." If you can, then it wasn't a very good conspiracy. If you can't, then it is a belief system and you are using faith to supplement perception. 

The basic test is this: I once got so angry at my aunt I went into my room and chanted. A few moments after, a curtain near her ignited in unnatural way. Since I cannot reproduce this event, it is not proof of magic. It is coincidence. It would take faith to think anything else, or some really high level physics I suppose. Prove it. No one can prove it.