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[Suggestion] Female friendly features

[Suggestion] Female friendly features

 

Greetings forum-goers,

Before diving into my suggestion, I'd like to introduce myself. I used to work in the games industry (casual games and FPS) on the business side. Beyond being involved in the business strategy, for fun after work I contributed to beta testing for several games (e.g. Turok, Army of 2). I've since moved to a management consulting firm but I like to stay involved with the games industry; that's the reason I'm here!

I have a few simple suggestions to make the game more female friendly, and thus appeal to a larger audience.

1. In the unit creation screen, allow the creation of female units.

2. Provide visual character customization options (e.g. sovereign and soldiers can change hair colour, clothing colour, doesn't even require more character models, just textures).

3. Feature women prominently in roles throughout the game (e.g. soldiers, sovereigns), and in a normal way (i.e. normal looking women, not ones in bikini armor with giant chests).

4. Allow user to change the appearance of their soveriegn (e.g. hair) whenever they wish.

To men, these options seem superfluous. But to women, the ability to roleplay and "get into" the game is a critical component in the suspension of disbelief. Customization is one possible avenue to this, as is the ability to play as a female. It doesn't even need to be extensive; a few options go a long way.

Here's an example of this in another context. One game that I helped manage was a casual puzzle game called Paparazzi that was targetted toward a female demographic. The dev team initially put work into developing an interesting storyline, engaging puzzles, and beautifully drawn graphics. But of course, the dev team was mostly male. When we tested the game with a female audience our most consistent feedback was that they wanted to change their character's appearance. Once we spent a few days building customization options, the ratings from our female test group increased significantly. 

The key learning was that men don't know what women want in games. We need to ask them

Have a great day everyone!

 

 

251,512 views 102 replies
Reply #51 Top

To those who think that women characters should have lower stats in order to be more realistic : then we should also remove magic, dragons, beasts, the fallen and well... stop the game xD The purpose is not to be realistic but to be funny... for every player, including female players!

If women were to have stats different from males, then they should also have bonus (for magic for instance?), and then it could be funny if  it was the exact opposite for the fallen (females stonger than males) just to make it a strategic choice xD

Like scorpiana says, I think player should be able to decide how to appoint males or females to functions without restrictions, even though I think it could be nice to introduce cultural differences about it amongst the playable civs (some could have daughters wield sword, and others could forbid magic for males for instance ^^).

 

Just my opinion...

Reply #52 Top

Most fantasy settings take the real world as a basis and then go on from there.

I think what really boils my blood here is that it really has nothing to with *realism*. If it did, TBSGAMER would insist that men have shorter lifespans than women, get a penalty to agility, get decreased disease resistance, make worse watchmen because men have inferior peripheral vision... apparently, only female physical disadvantages count for anything. It has absolutely nothing to do with "realism", he just doesn't want female warriors and can't admit it.

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Reply #53 Top

Or maybe he doesn't know.

Dear lord, I just defended TBSGAMER!

Reply #54 Top

Dear lord, I just defended TBSGAMER!

Shame on you... :grin:

Like scorpiana says, I think player should be able to decide how to appoint males or females to functions without restrictions, even though I think it could be nice to introduce cultural differences about it amongst the playable civs (some could have daughters wield sword, and others could forbid magic for males for instance ^^).

Thanks for the support, and off course you are right that there could / should be cultural differences between the factions. Maybe not pre-defined, but random, or chosen at startup.

Reply #55 Top

Quoting Scorpiana, reply 54

 but random, or chosen at startup.

Random not, please. Except for your civ if you choose so. But the other civs should come with an style set and if possible that are different from each other so they truly feel different civs with different (biological/social) evolution histories.

Quoting MagicwillNZ, reply 52

I think what really boils my blood here is that it really has nothing to with *realism*. If it did, TBSGAMER would insist that men have shorter lifespans than women, get a penalty to agility, get decreased disease resistance, make worse watchmen because men have inferior peripheral vision...

Altough I like the idea of some artificial but simple diferences between men and women (let's face it, they are not the same, both physically and mentally, partially and primarily because of biology and partially because of society, and I'd like the different civilizations have different approachs to this), you are totally right.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 55

Altough I like the idea of some artificial but simple diferences between men and women (let's face it, they are not the same, both physically and mentally, partially and primarily because of biology and partially because of society, and I'd like the different civilizations have different approachs to this), you are totally right.

While I respect this argument, there's a good reason why fantasy role-playing games have not simulated these differences and why they should continue not to, and that is that role-playing has ceased to really be a "male" activity. If men can be whatever they want to be, why are women then saddled by physical limits? This is fantasy not just for men but also for women. If this was a simulation like Total War and we were going for accuracy, I think it would be completely different... and Total simulates the differences big time and I'm fine with that. But making players feel powerless or railroaded because they've chosen a female character in a fantasy roleplaying game is irresponsible.

Erm... Not that I believe that men and women should be treated the exact same in games throughout... I think Bioware gets it  right by having male and female characters go through a subtly different experience... so I pretty much agree with you, I think.

Reply #57 Top

Quoting MagicwillNZ, reply 56

But making players feel powerless or railroaded because they've chosen a female character in a fantasy roleplaying game is irresponsible.

Err... Asking for some kind of differentiation is not the same as saying "Screw women, this is a manly game.". If women were totally superior to men in all aspects, I'd want the game to reflect it; if men were superior to women in all aspects, I'd want the game to reflect it. As both are just different, I'd expect the game to reflect that somehow (no need to be actually realistic). As people in the games just pop up from thin air, the only real difference between men and women cannot be used (giving birth). And while in an RPG (specially in tabletop which gives you more freedom, unlike CRPGs which are limited by logistics) you don't need differences because the Social Card can be used, I won't hold my breath for a TBS (with RPG elements) developing a social system that really matters (and not just about gender but other issues associated to such sphere like races, age...). I have a thread or two about something similar here (floating somewhere) and I already know that people prefer "bigger swords"* to other kinds of improvements. So my list of "Things I wish I could mod" is quite large (and currently impossible due to skill and knowledge).

Anyway, I don't complain that a fighter cannot cast spells like a wizard, or that wizard cannot pick locks like a rogue. I accept their differences and their roles. And I'd not complain that I'm forced to use as diplomat my Sovereign's son with higher Charisma and cannot use the one with very low charisma because that would lead to failure. Neither would I complain if my Heroes were to get old and due to that have lowered stats.

And asking for differences has nothing to do with the game being for men, women or for any of the 8 genders of certain bacteria. At least I never make that difference. I precisely have many arguments when my best female friend due to my bad habit of treating people as just people no matter the sex (which is also related to my inability to get girlfriend XD ).

* not to be taken in a literal sense.

Reply #58 Top

I have a thread or two about something similar here (floating somewhere)

This thread made me almost immediately think of your Dude, where are my Women thread. I'm not holding my breath for rich social modeling in Elemental, but I still kinda hope the genre evolves enough to include stuff like that eventually. My real hope for some rocking-chair gaming in a few decades is that I'll be able to play 'TBS' titles that have really strong, open, flexible models at the back end and let me set up games to literally fight it out between societies based on particular gender structures, unusual economies, complex religions, etc.

Re Elemental, my only serious fret is about whether we'll have no choice in the dynasty system about whether we keep sons home, keep daughters home, or mix-and-match according to the given set of offspring and potential marriage deals.

Reply #59 Top

Anyway, I don't complain that a fighter cannot cast spells like a wizard, or that wizard cannot pick locks like a rogue. I accept their differences and their roles. And I'd not complain that I'm forced to use as diplomat my Sovereign's son with higher Charisma and cannot use the one with very low charisma because that would lead to failure. Neither would I complain if my Heroes were to get old and due to that have lowered stats.

I understand this argument, but I don't understand how gender differences are supposed to make this more fun or how they are related to class differences. It's not that wizards should be able to lockpick, but that equally experienced men and women should be able to lockpick with the same sort of proficiency. I'm for, say, gender specific prestige classes, but once you make men and women different the same way dwarves and elves are... with different modifiers and such, there will always be an element of mechanical advantage in what truly should be a purely roleplaying choice.

Reply #60 Top

Give a couple options for hair or whatever for thier characters. Let modders add in 2512307458 hair packs like they do in every other game ever. Then, let the players design thier character, taking hours to make each and every little thing just right, outside of MP and save the character. Then, when they start a game, they pick from thier pre-designed character. Not only does this let people custimize thier character to thier hearts content, it lets them do it without making everyone wait on them.

 

edit: almost forgot. Almost 100% sure that some modder will have everyone looking like barbie in chainmail bikini within a few weeks, if not just flat out nude. No point in worrying about it.

Reply #61 Top

Quoting CariElf, reply 11
In case you didn't know, I'm Cari Begle, Stardock's Senior Game Developer, and I'm a woman.  I'm not saying that makes me an authority on what all women want in games, but it gives us somewhat of an edge.

1-3 are definitely planned, although we don't yet know if we're going to have time to make female units (other than the sovereigns) before release. 

As for 4, I don't think that we've considered that. You'll be finding items that your sovereign can equip, so that will change their clothing and armor, etc, but I don't know about hair color/texture.

There will be no chainmail binikis in Elemental because of the gross historical inaccuracy. (Do you know how much that would chafe?!) Unless you guys mod them in.

We've had a few non-official discussions about having differences between female and male sovereigns for diplomacy, which I won't give any details since Brad hasn't heard them yet. But it's something I'll be bringing up when we start working on Diplomacy.

 

Can I ask for you to please consider #4 then?  It's a feature I really want.


Also, I'd like to see an option for items to not change the sovereign's appearance.  I play a lot of fighting games, and I never liked the little gadgets you can stick on the back of your fighter.  I do not need to be wearing a rubber ducky.

 

 

Reply #62 Top

If the rubber ducky is in the bathtub along with my elven babe, then i will put up with all the little yellow rubber duckys you want.

 

As for hair, considering that in most games where you can actually see your character, the first mod made is either a nude with figure from 18yo's dreams or a mod that adds in 10000 different hairs to choose, that should be a clue as to what we tend to prioritzie. Forget gameplay and fun and stuff, i want my person to have twin drill-hair with red ribbions integrated!

Reply #63 Top

Do people really bother with nude mods for TBS games? O_o Civilization IV: Beyond the clothes XD

Reply #64 Top

Do people really bother with nude mods for TBS games? Civilization IV: Beyond the clothes
I've personally never seen one, but then again I don't frequent those sorts of sites.... I imagine there's enough of a market for nude anything to make such a mod worthwhile.

Reply #65 Top

iirc i saw a mod for civ4 that replaces models with much sexier versions, don't recall if it was outright nude or platemail-bikini style though. Some of the AoW mods did similar things. It dosen't matter to those folks if your going to be talking 1 on 1 with a character in an rpg or commanding thousands of tiny little dots in a rts, someone will make a mod to give them all fantasy bodys.

Reply #66 Top

People do it in fighting games.  SC4 built its rep largely on customization/dolling up female chars.

Reply #67 Top

These should be added to the list of internet rules.

 

If a game has no breasts, they will be added.

If it has breasts, they will be made larger and nakeder.

 

Absurd as it may be, this does seem to happen to most games that have come out within the past few years and have any real popularity.

Reply #68 Top

There was such mod for Morrowind. The naked persons wore some sort of underwear. However the only way you may see a naked person was to kill some NPC and took off her/his clothes. I found it disgusting even if I usually like to see a naked woman.

Reply #69 Top

That whole set, morrowind, oblivion, fallout3, were very prone to modding and ended up with multiple mods of that sort. Best example was oblivion. IIRC it had over 10 total mods that gave you various different body types(nude and underwear versions for most). Some of the mods had multiple versions, like 6 different versions of breasts, 4 for the legs, 3 for the various levels of oil on skin...

And the only way to see the new body models was not kill npcs although that was pretty common, People would mod clothes and armor to show the models off. Oblivoon must of had 1000+ versions of magical chain mail bikinis.

 

 

Reply #70 Top

The following are observations made me.

I served three years in a combat oriented unit (I.E. sleep with an M18 as your pillow), in a mixed company.

Basic training - There was one platoon made entirely (including liutenant and non-coms) of ladies females. Out of that all chromosom X platoon, about half finished basic training. Mostly due to physical injuries.

The most common injury was stress fractures, due to (believe it or not) excessive *standing*. Also, have you ever seen an 18 year old girl, 1.40 meters tall and weights 35kg carry a MAG (~10kg) in each hand? Of course she'll end up needing physiotherapy...

On the other hand, the other half of that platoon were stronger than me and could probably kick my ass. I admit it with no shame, I'm just a geek, and those guys were hardcore.

Socially - Unlike what I've been told tends to happen, those girls were all close friends and there weren't any jealosy between them. Note: this is not a fact, but something a freind of mine (female, from said group) told me.

 

 

Back to topic: I *excpect* sovreigns to be of both sexes. I *expect* champions/heroes/whateva' to be of both sexes. I *expect* the male-female question to be 99% cosmetic, and the last 1% to deal with specific events. And by 'expect' i mean I will be surprised and disappointed if it won't happen.

I *hope*, when I zoom on my soldiers, to see some female faces.

Reply #71 Top

I agree with the OP.

 

Would fighting units be all male/ all female, or a mixture of men and women? Perhaps allow the user to choose.

 

Ultimately does it matter if units are mixed or not? Its only a game.

 

Don't change stats between male and female units, it gets too complicated, make it a cosmetic difference only.

Reply #72 Top

According to Kyogre's twit-tracking page, a Stardockian twitted the link to this picture recently:

It seems like evidence that the devs are thinking about genders from multiple points of view, even if they're going to, ahem, wuss out and cut this kind of guy from the UI.

Reply #73 Top

He has a mullet?? Why didn't I notice that before?!

I for one would just think the devs were a tad lazy if they didn't institute female units, considering that we'll already have basic female models for soverings and porncesses PRINCESSES (honest typo, I SWEAR!!). All-female units gamewide would just seem strange, but integrated strikes me as the most sensible way to go in a fantasy world.

Reply #74 Top

When a ring of strength can let you toss around 10 ton boulders like they are babies the measley difference between sexes of 10-20 kg lifting power becomes pointless. Magic is the great equalizer.

And mullets? now i need a macguyver family. Able to cast the armegedon spell with 4 twigs and a rock.

Reply #75 Top

He has a mullet?? Why didn't I notice that before?!

Too low-res & wrong perspective to call it a mullet or not. Safe to call him a tart from the posture, though.