[SUGGESTION] improve the built-in units

from Elemental Forums

Example, on turn 1, with just the starting tech, you can design a new unit that will be a LOT better than the starting "basic guard".  Granted the better unit will take longer to build, but it will have the same maintenance cost, so the economics only make sense to bypass the built-in units, and always make your own.

I think that would be a pain, so I vote for good-enough built-on units so we don't have to build all our own.  Personally, I got tired of designing ships in GalCiv2.

I might get a lot a hatred for this, but I think they could have gotten along fine without any design-your-own for ordinary troops.  I know it is traditional in space games, but a swords and magic game will probably end up more hero-centric, and we will want to spend our time leveling-up our heroes and getting better artifacts for them instead of re-designing our cannon-fodder every time we get a new tech.

MOM and the Total War series did fine with built-in units, and games like RTW & MTW got a lot of replay value from the differences in the fixed units available to each faction (Greek phalanx inf vs Parthian horse-archers vs Carthaginian elephants, etc).  In GalCiv2, despite (or because of) the fancy ship-design capabilities, I ended up with pretty much the same ships, fighting the same way, no matter faction I played.

With or without design-your-own, I would like REAL differences in the troop types available to various factions.  One with good cav but crappy infantry, one with good armor but weak offense, etc, etc.

10,505 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm going to have to disagree - other games like Elemental may choose to have Cannon fodder, but in Elemental it's about being able to design the right unit for the right job. In Civ4, it's all about numbers - just pump out enough of your strongest unit and swarm your opponent. Seriously, even at the highest difficulty level, this tactic is flawless. I believe the idea is also to have sharing of other people's creations - so you can essentially just download other people's creations if you don't want to build your own.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

This is not really an issue that needs looking at yet, the built in units as you put it are in simple xml files, the purpose of this first Beta is to check for crashes and compatability issues as noted in the sticky notes above.

Any units in the game at the moment are little more than place holders.

 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ZehDon, reply 1
I'm going to have to disagree - other games like Elemental may choose to have Cannon fodder, but in Elemental it's about being able to design the right unit for the right job. In Civ4, it's all about numbers - just pump out enough of your strongest unit and swarm your opponent. Seriously, even at the highest difficulty level, this tactic is flawless. I believe the idea is also to have sharing of other people's creations - so you can essentially just download other people's creations if you don't want to build your own.

 

Your CIV IV example is in my humble opinion flawed. CIV has a very good balance here. Even if you have just reached for example Macemen you dont want to focus on those exclusivly. You will be much better of mixing your Macemen with Pikemen, Catapults and other units.

When you get riflemen its a big step up and you will build a lot of them. Even then you need to plan cause there are other units with bonuses against riflemen so a mix with mounted units is better.

Throw in promotions, upgrades, nation specific units and such and you have tons of choices.

 

CIV IV is in my book the best game ever made. If Elemental is anywhere near this standard I will be crying in joy!

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree the Civ IV vision is flawed. Civ IV has a good mix and should be regarded as a good example on how things should work. There is a good mix of units and counter-units so that you will not want to focus on one unit exclusively.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Keep in mind that we will eventually have tactical battles to worry about as well.  So ranged attacks, movement speed and magical abilities will all eventually come into play.

I do agree with the general idea of making the default units worthwhile though.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Also keep in mind that it's been written a few places that there's supposed to be a possible and meaningful choice between churning out a ton of cheap untrained units versus a small elite strike team.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree entirely with the original poster.  After a while I found the ship designer in galciv2 to be more tedious than fun.