I'd like to make a suggestion on diplomacy - especially starting negotiations. In Civ or almost any other TBS I know starting negotiations is instantaneous as soon as you have discovered a faction (and maybe a tech like in GalCiv2). This may be realistic in the connected world of today but doesn't seem just right in a fantasy setting.

To start a diplomatic contact I suggest either the requirement of a diplomatic unit, the use of spells or artifacts. The diplomatic unit could be used for non-magical contacts, spells for magically inclined sovereigns (maybe only usable if the "target" does not shield itself magically). The artifact option would be for alliances where two factions chose to stay in close contact to each other and exchange items not to be required to cast a spell every time the want to talk to each other.

Those suggestions don't necessarily have to be in the game at the start but I'd love to see some mods enable a diplomatic system like that.

well since soveriegns are magical I would think that once they know about each other they would have ameans of magical communication.  In MoM it was mirrors...

Magical communication as in using spells or artifacts? That would be nice.

I'm just suggesting that instant communication isn't automatic but should (or maybe even just could) require mana - either as a one way effort on the side of the one trying to start negotiations or on both sides where both sides create either an artifact (think of a Plantír ) or a permanent enchantment.

And about the "once they know each other" part. Do two factions really know enough of each other when two of their units meet or even if they just see the territory or one unit of the other faction (as it is in Civ4)? I imagine establishing diplomatic relations (or first contact) as something more interesting.

To re-emphasize: I'm not suggesting that this should be in the game from the start - just that the foundations are there if someone wants to write a diplomatic mod. In Civ4 it was unfortunately hard-coded IIRC so you couldn't change the behaviour of starting diplomatic contact.

If you're getting a BSOD by playing Elemental, something is seriously wrong.   I understand the game freezing or causing all sorts of strange issues.   But a BSOD should only occur when something is seriously wrong.  Chances are, the fault is with the computer.  A stable OS shouldn't crash to blue screen just because an unstable program is loaded.

OK BSOD was said somewhat tongue in cheek, say how much fun you are having when you aren't crashing every five minutes...

While I do think it's the best fantasy wargamer ever invented. The best game ever invented still goes to Ultima IV. No wait X-Com Terror from the Deep, no wait Sacrifice, no wait Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri, yeah that's the one, no wait Sid Meiers Civilization II, no wait Railroad Tycoon I, no wait Galactic Civilization II, no wait Medieval Total War I.

Actually according to Gamespy and a Best Game of ALL TIME poll they did the winner was HALFLIFE I was so disappointed. But, Civilization II did get in the top 10. Some of the sic placers were Mario and Zelda kids games. pffft.

Mario and Zelda entertain me!

Although I really enjoy sacrifice.  Especially since your mana producing units have a name that's pronounced the same as "Mana whores" LOL

Leave it the creators of earthworm jim to create the only RTS-ish game that I enjoy.

I would like to see seasonal and weather effects in the game. ie Passes could be closed by the snows of winter, attrition due to cold would affect human armies, fire based spells would be less effective in a rainstorm, ice trolls would be hampered in the heat of summer. I believe this would add a random element to the game and also further strategy as an enemy may wait until the conditions suited his army before attacking. It also reminds me of many fantasy novels I've read.

The thing is the game will never be the game WE ALL WANT. There's too much diversity in opinions and wants here. I want this, another person wants that then the arguements ensue over why each others wants are stupid and redicuous and insane and blah blah blah just like every other game development forum out there.

I will give most of you a little clue. The game core has already been built. The game DESIGN is already in place and when you start beta-ing all you are going to be able to put input on and feedback are what's already there. Not your socalled WANTS. The only way your wants will be included is if they are ALREADY A PART OF THE GAME DESIGN. These developers aren't going to take THEIR design out of the game for a few individuals wahwahs. I already knew that when I came here. I can't believe many of you don't or didn't.

So, if the channeler dies and game over that's already in the game. Family/dynasty building is already in the game. The combat engine is already in the game. The way combat is going to work is already in the game. The diplomacy feature is already in the game the way diplomacy is going to work in already in the game. These developers aren't going to build this game around you they are USING YOU to build the game. They want to know what BUGS and FLAWS and EXPLOITS you find not really your opinion on how combat should work or diplomacy or any of the other 1000 things already in the game.

Oh sure you might hit on one or two things they will change based on beta feedback, but, not the core engine itself more than likely only a few lines of code and some stats for particular units or buildings.

I've beta'd too long to know that they don't really care about your design ideas, they just care about getting a working as bug free and exploit free as they can release copy. The only difference I see in this beta version is they are going to CHARGE players to beta test the game. lol That's the most rediculous part of the whole thing. And plenty of fools will pay it I'm sure cause Barnum and Bailey said it years ago. "A fool is born every minute and most of them live" lmao.

Alas, all too true.  But the rest of your post...

Not 100% true.  While it is true that the bulk of the engine is written, this is an SD beta.  That's a horse of another color than most game betas.  There is plenty of room for change left in the design.  If you make a convincing enough point, and it isn't too difficult to add in, there is plenty that can yet be added.

Take for example GalCiv 2's trio of offensive and defensive stats.  That was added in in Beta, not a part of the original design.  In fact, the end-user (forum guy!) who suggested it is still hanging out around here someplace, if my wits don't desert me.  Personally, I don't like the system very much, but I recognize it as a great system and it's one that's the direct result of user input.

Is the game going to get turned into an RTS based on our input?  No.  But changes, even large changes, are possible.  Just make a very good case for them.

I read from a dev that StarBases were not in the original GalCiv design and were suggested by a forum member.

Those are a HUGE part of the game and were not just "a few lines of code".

Psycho needs to pull his head out of the fifth dimension and quit speaking about things that he has no clue.

They have already stated multiple times that one of the main reasons they are keeping beta on cloth map is so they can make LARGE CHANGES based on feedback and won't end up trashing or majorly revising a lot of high end assets. So they do all the major tinkering and then create the assets based on that.

Sure they have a very strong vision and direction that they are going - at this point they have to - but I have zero doubt that they are going to be very open to feedback and I bet we see a lot of suggestions from the forums that end up in game.

oh whew some big game changing feature lol and if you had read this line in my post:

If it's something little and insignificant there's a possiblity of a change. But, nope you will not change the major core features of this game or any other game. These guys got in the business to design games not design YOUR game or program it for you. If you want that then you better be ready to cough up some serious money not $40 measly dollars lol

You're living in a delusion if you think you're going to change the core game very much if any at all by beta playing. lmao

Just thought I'd add this from an INTERVIEW by Andrew Spark from Game Spot:

See that word MAJOR yeah uh huh just as I said the core design is finished.

Well, if all we're gonna do in the beta is find bugs and exploits, I wonder why we'd need almost a full year to pull that off...

And to counter your 'Currently, most of the major gameplay aspects are locked down' I'll let Brad say it in his own words from this journal...

A Stardock BETA isn’t a typical beta. It’s really not a beta by typical industry terms. Rather, it’s more of a prototype. GalCiv players, not us, came up with starbases.  Hard to believe that isn’t it? But it’s true.  For BETA 1, we’re not really looking for “bug” reports. We want to hear people telling us what they’d like to see, how they’d like the game work.  And we’ll debate, discuss, argue, and have a lot of fun putting it all together over the next several months because, well, for us, the BETA process is a key part of the game’s (as opposed to the coding) evolution.

Maybe your fifth dimensional thinking is getting a bit out of sync with Brad... Oh well, guess I could start calling you names now, comparing your IQ with a rather low number, but that's not really me...

The 5th dimension does not know the meaning of PWNED. I really hate to have such animosity towards someone, but he really does call it upon himself.

Still blind as baseball bats and your IQ's are dipping even futher. But, you'll just have to wait and see and when you start crying but, but, but, Brad you said. I'll be around to tell you "I told you so"

Well, I've no intention to keep on discussing something with someone who's insulting and doesn't want to listen to anything but the little voices that are only talking to him...

Only time will tell who's gonna be right about this, maybe you are, but the experience I have with Stardock makes me have great faith in Brad's words. I have no doubts that somethings will be suggested, asked by a majority of the fans but will still not get implemented because too hard to program / not fitting in the vision Brad / Stardock has with this game, but I also have no doubt they will listen to the fans and try to do the most to make this the game we've all been waiting for.

Oh, and making new users to artificially increase your karma... How low can you get... (I might be wrong, but it's really strange that two new users create an account within 10 minutes from each other just to give Psycho +1 or 2 karma for the same post... Maybe someone from SD should look into this...)

No matter what happens, psycho will be correct in his own mind, it won't matter what ideas SD implements he will claim those are "minor" and whatever gets turned down or not included he will think that vindicates him and he will be crowing "I told you so!" and putting his shoulder out of joint from patting himself on the back for his 5th dimensional thinking and insight into Brad's thought processes....

Probably... I just intend to ignore him for the most part from now on, unless he really goes of the deep end...

Amazing how you focus on the word major, not most

You've been told to knock off the insults. Making puppet accounts to give yourself karma (yes, we can tell) is just icing on the cake. Time for a vacation.

Aaaah... Thanks for the good news...

Seems I was right then about the karma, I would have hated to be wrong after insinuating something like that, he might have been insulting, but that doesn't give the rest of us the right to do the same to him. (Ok, maybe for a bit...)

ooo back on topic.

Diplomacy: Personally i think the diplomacy systems like GalCiv is good enough. But i'd like to see more 'character' to diplomacy rather than just a plain old boring 'relations' number. Historical grievances should be modeled. Alignment should also be taken into account. An evil sovereign who's been subjugating opponents by warfare should not be able to maintain good relationships with a good sovereign who values peace no matter how much money is offered. 

Espionage: Personally i don't really think espionage will play a big role in the game. Sure it would be fun if rogue class heroes could conduct subversive activities but, i've never really seen any game successfully make a system that really allowed players to use espionage routes as a significant valuable option. The closest i can imagine is the Darloks of MoO. Now that was one faction upon which espionage was crucial and a viable path for galactic conquest. Unfortunately playing against the Darloks was extremely infuriating as they kept sabotaging my diplomatic relationships.