Yeah...

Correct.  Would you like 500 rounds moving at 300 m/s or one moving at 140 km/s?

depends on what you're shooting at.

Though 300 m/s is actually subsonic.

Volt, I think your over complicating how to make the Kramrok model. Just take a cone with 3 sides, deform it and add some detail like so:

Crap! it appears my screenshot program is broken so I cant put a picture but I have the model and I could send it to you so you can see it.

only have a few seconds here so i just want to say three things

1. Whiskey, i would appreciate you not being an arrogant jackass. i too hate the Kol Gauss Railgun ability name, as i hate the MAC gun name (Halo), you yourself said you dont know how Ion Cannons work. Do some research before shooting your mouth off

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster <-- Ion Drive (engine) technlogy. Ions are propelled using ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_cannon <-- Ion Cannon technology. Ion Cannons are Super Charged Particle weapons, not plasma weapons.

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun <-- Railgun Technology, uses a current to generate a magnetic force to propel the slug at great speeds. Contrary to what Whiskey believes, they are quite similar.

Railguns and coilguns are not that similar.  They are both linear accelerators and they both use magnetic forces, yes.  However they manner in which they propel projectiles could not be more different

Railguns use two rails with a projectile mounted between them, in which a current is fed into one rail, which conduces through the projectile to the other rail and induces a Lorentz force in the projectile, propelling it forwards.

Coilguns use electromagnetic coils to pull on projectiles, accelerating them before they leave the barrel.  Coilguns operate very similarly to solenoids.

Cheers, LT.

1st off, I NEVER SAID THAT ION CANNONS ARE PLASMA CANNONS. Volt did. Not me. So don't blame me for that. Yes, I sometimes come off as arrogant. that's I problem THAT I HAVE. I'm working on that though.

As for the Ion Cannons, I am sorry for being unresearched on that. I thought that they energized the ions similar to the way a plasma weapon creates a plasma; I was wrong and Ion Cannons are actually particle beams. My bad.

Lord_Tirian, while the same force may in fact drive them both, they USE TWO DIFFERENT METHODS OF ENGAGING SAID FORCE. This makes them operate on TWO DIFFERENT PRINCIPLES. Personally, I'm sticking with what I stated in my mod thread, that Railguns and Coilguns (Gauss guns) operate in SLIGHTLY SIMILAR principles.

Also Rez, sorry if it sounded like I was shooting my mouth off. I didn't mean to come off like that.

Whatever the above case, it is irrelevant.  The physics involved in the linear accelerator such as gauss cannons and railguns is irrelevant.  As such, I suggest we get back on topic.

good by me.

quite alright, and thanks for the apology, just ease up on the CAPS LOCK, sounds like you are yelling or saying something in an exasperated and impatient tone, like you are talking down to people. you can get the 'tone of voice' you want with underlines or italics.

also, i didnt say you said Ion Cannons are like Plasma weapons, i know Volt did, i was rushed and i simply put everything in one topic.

yes, there are differences, but when it comes down to it, it is the simple fact that all of them use some sort of magnetic force (just generated and implemented differently) is what i was basing my ideas on. its the fact that magnetic manipulation of matter is present in the Sins universe, so while its there, why not use it? i mean, its not hard to imagine that ships in Sins use some sort of Advanced Ion "Impulse" Engine (or at least Ion Thrusters) or Nuclear Pulse Engines, so its not a stretch to imagine them converting their existing science into weapons technology.

Also, Volt, i know the Novalith is technically the 'peak of TEC weapons technology', forgive me for stealing the quote. what i meant is that it is the peak of ship-to-ship weaponry, as you dont use novaliths on ships.

I don't usually use CAPS LOCK, I just hold down SHIFT. I mostly use it to emphasize things. Also, something I noted in a different thread- someone said Novaliths GENERATED (emphasizing here) a projectile. In context of programming and game operation, this is true. In context of the SCIENCE (again emphasis only), the Novalith is actually fire a nuclear warhead. I didn't think it was important, just thought it was a little odd .

Look, If I must, I will explain everything myself:

The difference between a particle cannon and an ion cannon is this:  The particles fired.  Technically, a particle cannon includes ion cannons, but a particle cannon is not just electrons being fired.  It is completely and totally ionized plasma being fired in the form of a beam.  This means that you are firing nothing but Neutrons and Protons.  This gives it an extremely strong positive electric charge which can push shields aside and the mass to slam through hulls.  That is what a charged particle cannon is.

Railguns and Gauss Cannons are similar, but operate on different applications of the Lorenz force.  Gauss Cannons use their coils to compress it over a shorter distance, but due to the overlap, the coil is not terribly efficient due to overlap.  Railguns fix this as they are completely linear.  They harness this force without wasting it.  That is the difference.  

Ion engines are one of the slowest possible space transport systems.  Traditional impulse engines are far faster, they just have worse mileage.  One liter of Xenon is enough to propel Deep Space One's probe more than a lightyear.  It is efficient.  Hydrogen and oxygen will get you going a whole lot faster however.

I know, but they are not nuclear bombs...  A nuke would be worthless.  You fire anything at that high a speed and it will make a planet uninhabitable for the next millennium.

There are many misconceptions about the way sci-fi weapons work.  This is acceptable so long as everyone is humble about it lest you be an expert on the topic.  Now I will take a wild guess here and say I have more knowledge than anyone here on the subject.  I am also the creator of this thread and as such:

I thought we had gotten over this already, though if you wikipedia it, you'll find Project Orion, which actually aimed to use nukes to propel a spaceship lol.

anyways, I do have a bunch of info that I should probably brush up on in reference to a lot of this stuff. But I do agree, getting back on topic is the thing to do right now.

also, they don't use Xenon as much due to it's expense.

particle cannons also have the potential to knock out electronics, in a way similar to an EMP.

Also, EMP weapons in Sins? not like an ability, but an actual WEAPON. That would be AWESOME (once again, not yelling, but emphasizing).

But like I stated above, getting back on topic is the thing to do right now. 

True, you can use nukes if you use a solar sail, but otherwise no...

And actually they did use Xenon...

Anyways, next comment?

fair enough (though what about the first part of the question?) so... what exactly is the role of torpedos? to the best of my knowledge they dont exist in the TEC armoury, other than Ogrov weaponry but... so... what are you thinking? graphics wise, speed wise, effectivness wise, etc etc.

okay, i was thinking of a broadside like Pirates of the Carribean, of a tall ship with row on row of guns, firing 1 bank after the other in quick succesion... a single blast just seems to quick and easy to miss - you press the button and its done before you know what happened... oh well, we'll test it and see what happens

do you mean what it does as in the graphic? well, if the Invasion ability is going to look like troops landing on the planet (which i dont think fits in the lore... idn, maybe drop pods with AI destructo-bots (excuse the silly name) or some sort of hard radiation bomb), then invasion is fine, but if its going to be a weapon that is fired from space, Invasion is an inaccurate name. Personally, with Sins being a Space-based game, i think fulfilling a game mechanic with a graphic/lore explanation that involves deploying ground troops is terribly anti-climactic and just boring. as for Genocide, i gave my reasons, i think something visible is necesary, after all, it could certainly be considered an ultimate ability

reason?

you're right, Nanite Warheads is good

fine, but the stats in the OP says when fully upgraded it lasts for 60 secs... 1. how much AM does this thing have in the first place and 2. 60 secs is a very long time, yes, its shields recharge very quickly, but its essentially out of the game for a very long time, and, given that its an extreme range weapon, it cant even act as a damage sponge because it would be out of range of most ships... i think making it a stoppable ability would be best

I posted this a few hours ago but it got lost in the argument. Just thought Id point it out again.

I saw it, but I like it as it is now more...  Sure, it looks weird, but all the Vasari ships do...  Lets see, there's the egg, the Kortul which looks like it pops out, the carrier which looks like a needle, and now there is the fan...

sorry that it got lost in the argument soasertsus. I'll probably start a 'The Sciences of Sins' thread to keep that kind of thing from happening again.

fine, regardless, from a purely aesthetic and 'cool factor' point of view, as well as considering graphics application, an Ion Cannon would be good. It sounds awesome, it looks awesome, it is explainable and understandable, and the lore does not forbid it. you said in the backstory that one Astrom destroyed an entire Jarrasul in one shot... as much as Halo romanticised it, a big metal rock (unless it penetrates or compromises the reactor or intersects the armory) wont often destroy an entire ship, especially one as big as a Jarrasul. And considering the Astrom is about the same size as an Akkan, and the Astrom cannon is a fraction of the size of the ship itself, a single metal rock wouldnt destroy an entire ship.

An Ion Cannon blast, in conjunction with the secondary effects of the weapon, could most certainly destroy any ship in the game in one shot. of course, out of fairness, the actual in-game model wont destroy a large ship in one shot, but it will make it much more believeable. from a graphics perspective as well, a railgun shot wouldnt be very visible, while the Vasari and Advent weapons will be very visible.

Aside from the scientific whatevers, it will look and be much much cooler, and in the end, in a game, that (and fairness) is all that matters

The astrom cannon runs pretty much the entire length of the ship...

Ion cannons though fire electrons which short out electronics, they don't do damage...  Particle cannons (which fire protons) however deal MASSIVE damage.  They have mass and high speed (which means lots and lots an LOTS of kinetic energy) and they short out things...  Simply put, they are not what you want to get hit by...

I know...  I would like to have it as a beam, but idk...  It just seems weird, but idk... I suppose it would work...

i meant in terms of diamter. you can have a slug that is 5 kilometers long, but if its 3 cm in diameter, its not going to do that much damage (excuse the gross exaggeration)

and again, aside from the science (call it a particle cannon/ion cannon whatever (though in the link i provided, an Ion Cannon was referred to as a particle weapon...) regardless) aside from the science, its still the cool factor.

i dont know how it seems weird... if you tell me what you are concerned about exactly i can try to rationalise it for you...

but as far as i can see everything about it is a positive: the graphics are more noticable, the weapon fire effect is easier to design (stealing from existing effects and tweaking), the lore does not forbid it, the science is 'realistic' or at least not a stretch of the imagination, it fits in with what we have, and does not require any massive changes, and it certainly appeals to the average gamer, who you can assume has played a game with an Ion Cannon or equivalent, and if not, they will certainly love the appearance of a 'mind-numbingly' destructive weapon at their fingertips.

lets leave it, design in a few things and see what happens. i know you were really into the idea of a high-power sniper rifle with engines, i like the idea too. but for this situation, an upgrade from a big rock thrower is needed.

True...  Let's come back to this...

its late there now isnt it? tell me, atm, i seem to be giving my opinions on whatever you come up with, so shall i maybe start working on a research tree (or at least research add-ons?)

and another thing... so far, we just have our 6 new ships, 2 new caps and some research... do we want to add anything else? it can be related to the core concept of this mod or just an idea in general, like... extra SC types... new structures... new research or abilities... more/different pirate ships? idn, im just throwing the idea out there.

anybody else reading this forum is also welcome to reply with new ideas. however a reason, some balance/drawback ideas, and, if applicable, equivalent units/structures for other races would be excellent. if you cant come up with an answer for everything though, its not a big deal, there will surely be someone else who can fill in the blanks.

[EDIT:] there is a post by Deceivor_0 about Carrier Caps. its a big block of text (which, ill admit, i dont have the patience to read right now) BUT, its well presented and looks like it could have some good ideas in it

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/357532

I would think that reworking the Vasari ships, fixing the Kortul's Disruptive Strike bug, add in "Mad Scientist" mod's fire rate upgrades would be optional things...  This is of course on top of the basic things like Sins plus and whatnot which are going to be in as they are the standard...

And yes, some research tree ideas would be helpful...

just on a side note Rez,

IF (emphasis, ) the 3 cm x 5 km slug is moving EXTREMELY fast, like say 50-60% the speed of light (0.5-0.6c), then the slug will in all likelihood PASS THROUGH (emphasis ) the Evacuator, doing minimal damage by impact alone. However, because of the high speed, the slug will likely cause all the air in the Evacuator to, well, evacuate to space, creating a powerful vacuum-cleaner style effect, that attempts to suck everything out through a very tiny hole. The result- everything on board is dead. Even if you have an extremely small slug (I like the idea of a 5x100mm fin-stabilized munition) you can still inflict massive damage, you just have to send it moving fast enough.

But you are right, a piece of metal alone really won't inflict that much damage against a really big target.