Why are so many people getting banned? » Forum Post by Tiny4Ever

I didn't know this warskull guy but I read his post on helms and it was very informative. However, we do not know the whole story. I would love to hear the story from Stardock's side.

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Quoting Jdub121686,

reply 25

You know, It seems to get banned around here you have to act quite the fool for quite some time.

I doubt that manypeople are getting banned and if they are they probably deserve it.

I don't think you really paid attention to what was said. It didn't seem to me that warskull acted a fool for even a bit.

More of this "if SD did it then it must have been justified!" mentality.

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If that is how he feels about the game and the community, then why waste your breath complaining about it? Just leave. Because if that is the way the community is and you're not happy being here, obviously it's not going to change in your favor. So just leave.

yea, you are dense. i'll map it out. tenet was giving perspective into how warskull would probably feel if he took the opportunity to play the game again. warskull got banned for making a clean (within forum rules) post that pissed off an employee. he'd have to restart his profile all over again, and he'd have to watch his mouth constantly, else risk being banned again (if SD even let him play the game again).

"Would you keep playing a game and get invested in it if you felt like that could be taken away at any time, regardless of your positive record based on one questionable comment?!" (this is a question posed in response to this post:)

Well if they're refunding him then he doesn't have cause to complain. Heck, he could use the refund money to buy a new copy if he still wants to play.

+1

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I still think what Warskull posted wasnt a genius idea, and he should have known how stressed and worked up SD were because of the amount of work and problems they have had.

Still, I really think the ban should be lifted. You cant force someone to make a refund if they didnt want it...not a good idea imo.

Gimme a fucking break, they get paid to make this fucking game work...

Oh really Tiny? Fucking explain why EA dont do one tenth of the work Stardock do but probably get paid 100x more.

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Quoting themadmanazn,

reply 1

I didn't know this warskull guy but I read his post on helms and it was very informative. However, we do not know the whole story. I would love to hear the story from Stardock's side.

Quoting kryo,

reply 25

If you simply mail sales and request a refund, no, there is no reason you would get banned. We've acknowledged the issues and if they're too much for you, we don't begrudge you wanting to put your money to better use.

But in the above example, a user insulted our support and dedication to Demigod and its users, and as a result was basically given his money back and shown the door; this is an exceptional case. We have no problem tolerating criticism, but if someone makes it personal like that we're not under any obligation to take it sitting down. Just as users can opt not to buy stuff from us if they like, we can opt not to *let* them.

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More of this "if SD did it then it must have been justified!" mentality.

Well, to be fair, generally when these sorts of stories (especially when they're as vague as the OP was) hit public, there tends to be quite a few details that get conveniently left out. Things like the profanity-laced shouting match with customer service and other delights.

If this ban really was the result of that 'one' comment though, that is pretty lame (for lack of a better word). Condescending as it may have been, most of what he said was true, at least from the perspective of many customers.

Still, it's hardly the epidemic that the OP made it out to be.

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I don't see a problem with them banning, as it is their product and they have a right to sell or not to sell to whoever they want to...plus, it seems like these who have been banned are not the nicest fellows.

Edit: I don't know any of them personally, but just don't cause shenanigans.

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MisYu, seeing as you still don't understand what Tenet is saying let me explain it.

Tenet is saying "if you were Warskull and thought you'd get banned again after buying a new copy why would you go buy a new copy?"

Jdub, I think this ban proves otherwise.

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Quoting Sythion,

reply 23

I agree entirely.

I think it's a mistake that someone someone so emotionally connected to this product should be making decisions about who stays and goes. Maybe Frogboy should consider delegating this responsibility?

Also, I am again (more so) disgusted by some of the community reaction.

General response seem to be that working hard entitles a company to not have to take criticism, that opinions don't matter, and SD is beyond questioning. I think these are all horrid explanations, coming from horrid people.

Get off your high horse. If you are so "disgusted" by the reaction of people on a thread then don't post on it, especially when you take people's words out of context.

-Nobody said that working hard should make them immune to criticism. They said that people should appreciate what SD is doing and be constructive instead of a douche.

-Opinions don't matter when you belittle and insult the company and game. You can't expect help if you run your mouth like an idiot.

- Their game, their forum, THEIR RULES. It has nothing to do with SD being beyond questioning. If you act insulting you're going to be banned. This isn't a democracy, and it isn't too much to ask for people to be civil.

I agree that Warskull's banning was harsh. But if you want to complain about it make a seperate post, because this one is about "Why so are many people getting banned." All you're doing is repeating one example.

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And everyone, think about the bans this way. Let's say you own a brand new hotel, and a man comes in with a list of completely justified complaints after staying, but is causing a scene in the hotel lobby. "And the water is all COLD, and there are horrible SHEETS, and there is a problem with ANTS, and the food is TERRIBLE..." You are aware of all these problems, and have not only vowed to fix them, but actually have appointments for the exterminator and plumber in a week, and you have an interview with a new chef planned for three days from now.

You could either do one of two things: a. Let the person rant on, and probably lose yourself a lot of business because of him, especially if he keeps ranting and more people are exposed to him.

b. Ask him to leave. I do disagree with Stardock not letting them play, but I hardly feel sympathy for someone who complains while a company is fixing problems he is talking about, and go get a different game if they feel this one is so bad.

Think about your feelings as the owner as well. You have put your life into this hotel and your customer is really ruining a lot of business as well as hurting your feelings, I know the "OMG FEELINS ARE 4 NEWBZ" is gonna come soon, but seriously it's their product and they can do with it as they like. They already put up with a vast amount of criticism on their site anyway.

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LOL vindKtiv are you the SD cheerleader? trying to prove that this ban was legit?

GO TEAM GO

U--G--L--Y-- YOU UGLY

Okay, first of all, proving his ban was legit is 10x more than you are doing. All you are doing is posting on random threads baselessly bashing SD for banning WarSkullX. I may be an SD cheerleader (I don't mind being a cheerleader, these two male cheerleaders I know get all the chicks ), but you are riding on WarSkullX's **** hard. You don't know him, and you have never communicated with him. You claim to be championing on behalf of all the players, yet you only defend WarSkullX.

And are you seriously trying to piss me off? I am not pissed off, and am much less amused. It takes more than a 12 year old under the mask of the internet to piss me off.

.02 -

Warskull was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Many many posts and comments have been made with far more objectionable content by frankly less valuable members of the community. They are all still playing.

Stardock, please reconsider this one. Ban him from the forums if you must, but don't take the game away from one of the guys who actually knows how to use it.

Thanks,

Kestrel

Dude, the guy was done with the game. He got the best ending out of all of us. I assume he got a full refund, and that is more than I can ask for. The game works for me, but connection is still slow and I would much rather play StarCraft where I can join a game and play within 5 minutes tops. My case does not warrant a 100% refund and I'm kind of regretting putting down the $40 now that the playerbase is starting to shrink. All I can do right now is enjoy the game for all I can and hope that SD and GPG get this thing done and the playerbase increases.

But whatever, I'm still enjoying the game.

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RE This thread's title: I'm sure the OP didn't intend to mislead - he just wanted to get attention to this case and probably didn't know if he could mention the specifics.

RE: Reasons for the ban - I believe it was based entirely on that post, like Ke5trel wrote - wrong place wrong time.

RE: MishYu - I understand what you are actually asking, regardless of the exact quotes, and I'm willing to answer.

Stardock and GPG are unique companies and I appreciate their effort at developing games independantly and communicating so closely with their community. I don't agree with all of the decisions made, but I see an opportunity and potential for the future.

Demigod is a major step towards catering to the Team PvP community and I want to support this effort, regardless of issues - because I hope it won't be the last, and I see a way for the game to greatly improve in competitive complexity and support for organized PvP. This is why I personally don't want a refund, and belive I'm getting my money's worth.

This case was surprising, shocking and absurd, so much so that I still believe that reason will prevail in the end.

Quoting vindKtiv,

reply 11

Dude, the guy was done with the game. He got the best ending out of all of us. I assume he got a full refund, and that is more than I can ask for.

Please, pay attention as your points were covered before

Warskull was NOT done with the game, in fact he was going to play with me and Rino in the first round of the Tournament this weekend, and he was playing daily with us. You can check his game stats through this very website.

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/games/player/11293/

Look at his post on balancing helms and other posts on this forum, that's not someone who's done with the game. =/

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i can't/won't belive people think this ban isn't justified.

If you acted the same way (personally insulting an employee) toward a GM

in a game like everquest (believe they're called GMs, the like in game mods).

Not only would u have your account banned, you certainly wouldn't get any sort of

refund and they surely wouldn't look at how valuable a community member you are.

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Who is "people" in this quote? If WarhawkX is "people" then he got exactly what he asked for. If Warhawkx isn't "people" then why didn't he let the "people" speak for themselves? Warskull quote :

Sounds to me like you aren't willing to stand behind your product, which is clearly broken. It was released with a large number of bugs, many of which still aren't fixed. People still can't really reliably play 4v4s and 5v5s (evidenced by the fact that you only recently dared to make pantheon 3v3.) You promised you would get these bugs fixed and its been over a month. What do people get for trying to support you and stand by you while you attempt to fix things, they get screwed.

People who pre-ordered the game paid more for it and Frogboy backed out of trying to remedy that. People who didn't immediately return it at release aren't getting full refunds now. Since when is Demigod satisfactory? Favor is still broken, the game still desyncs, the game still crashes, and the patches that were susposed to fix these issues and many others didn't.

Worst of all, you guys are giving us a 50% coupon for another copy of a defective product (which was never actually sent out.) So people who supported you early get screwed again.

Not giving people a full refund because they can technically play online in this trainwreck is against your Gamers Bill of Rights, releasing a game unfinished is against the GBoR.

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This thread is pure drama. Please lock it.

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Quoting Mike850,

reply 10

Think about your feelings as the owner as well. You have put your life into this hotel and your customer is really ruining a lot of business as well as hurting your feelings, I know the "OMG FEELINS ARE 4 NEWBZ" is gonna come soon, but seriously it's their product and they can do with it as they like. They already put up with a vast amount of criticism on their site anyway.

I've worked customer service jobs in the past. It is the most thankless, abusive industry you can work in. Customers will swear at you. Yell at you. Belittle you. Your company. Your porduct. Heck blame you for things that have nothing to do with you, your company or your product. If they are foul mouth enough, you hang up on them but you try to calm them first. If they continue, you just don't deal with until they call the next day. Or the day after that. It takes a lot, a lot to get banned from a service or removed from a store. Not that it should happen in the first place, but it does. People get frustrated and angry, it usually doesn't last long unless it's an ongoing problem, in which case, you'd expect ongoing agitation until its resolved.

Also, someone mentioned all the negative things about salary but none of the benefits we salaried individuals have, work a 30 hour week, get paid 40. Take an afternoon off, get paid the full week. I am by no means saying that to belittle 70-80 hour weeks Stardock employees are working, only if you are going to lecture someone that may or may not be younger than you are about salary, at least give them the full picture. Shouldn't really be talking down to them in the first pllace.

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Has anyone actually spoken to Warskull since the ban? Does anyone actually know if he _wants_ to come back?

A lot of other forums I see have pretty clear banhammer systems where there's a reply / new thread from a mod stating that the ban is in place along with the reason for banning. I didn't see that for Chaosnaksa, and while I'm glad he's gone I guess people would feel better about it if he didn't just dissapear in the night.

Lets face it, if whatsis face didn't start that 'lets all have a gloat' thread that's what would have happened

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Who is "people" in this quote? ...If Warhawkx isn't "people" then why didn't he let the "people" speak for themselves?

I'm guessing 'people' are the people that have been bitching about connectivity (and other) issues on a pretty regular basis around here for the last month.

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the very fact that this thread has gone for 4 pages, with a moderator post on page 2, is all the evidence you need that Stardock has a light-handed moderation policy. this would have been instantly locked under a more authoritarian regime.

as a matter of policy, i think SD needs to be consistent and let people know what to expect. you shouldn't have to wonder if one intemperate moment on the forums will lead to your mandatory refund. please SD, clarify this policy. don't use the mandatory refund punitively without a clear framework for doing so.

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This thread is pure drama. Please lock it.

This thread is a rather great debate on the ethics of Stardock and internet moderation in general.

This case was surprising, shocking and absurd, so much so that I still believe that reason will prevail in the end.

Reason has prevailed. He asked for it, he got it. As said before, if he tried this anywhere else he would have gotten banned without anything as much of a emoticon, much less a refund. You want shocking? You want absurd? Try championing for all those people on the Steam forums or whatnot.

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Quoting VyperXXX,

reply 15

This thread is pure drama. Please lock it.

It's drama because people are making it into drama (needlessly). I think its original intent was an inquiry into why warskull was banned and to get him unbanned. (and also to absolve any fears they might have of arbitrary future bans)

The title was a bit of a generalization, but all that's on the table is Warskull's account availability. He raged a little bit, but as a frustrated customer, you should be able to understand that.

Warskull didn't look to be asking for a refund, he was just venting his frustrations. Complaining about something doesn't immediately mean you want to return it and get your money back.

I also think his ban may have been a bit harsh, but I may not know that whole story

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I have, we were talking on IRC all day.

- He did not ask for a refund, and didn't want to be banned.

- I'm not certain he actually got the refund, there may be an issue with that.

- He is blocked from buying a new account, and likely other future products from SD/GPG.

He definitely wants his account restored.

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It's not so easy to say there where trolls or 14 aging young people.

The problem is the game!

and it's actual probs. Many gamers have fun with them, when all things will work. Or only a few thing works not so good. as long anyone have fun with it, its okay. But when you have a short period of time you have massiv probs with the game, you become angry. And at this point we become trolls that are nor realy trolls, or peoples who blame and bitching in affect of the last games from demigod. And onone can say that this will not happend to him. Because every day we have our own "happy place". Somtimes a bomb can explore we're happy sometimes a bird can sining we will become angry.

From a game we wish a stable level of there functionalility. But the connection system and some of the minor bugs (demigod pathingding, minion pathfinding) make it to a lottery game to have fun, sometimes.

I think thats the prob, when we become a moderate stable level for all peolple , we become a lower troll andbanning number of people.

Greetings

Shalom_Don

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I personally think TenetGW made the whole story very clear for everyone.

This ban was just a quick raged out decision, with no thinking behind it.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Stardock a Private Company and able to operate in any way it so choses? Unlike EA Games or Activision Blizzard, where they are held accountable to their Share Holders, Stardock is able to conduct itself without the focus on the almighty dollar at every waking moment. With this in mind, these bannings are understandable as in the real world crap like this simply wouldn't be tolerated - not to mention most the people wouldn't have the balls to say half the crap they post to the faces of the people employed by Stardock. However it appers to me that the flamers, griefers, trolls and general scum of the internet has grown so used to being able to spew forth their unfocused, hateful and nonsensical rhetoric without any kind of repercussions for so long that when to come to a forum where the moderators are able to ban you because you decided to take cheap shots at people who are working their asses off it's one hell of a wake up call.

As far as I'm concerned I'm happy to sit back, put my feet up, pour a glass of Scotch, light and a cigar and watch the Stardock boys and girls do their thing.

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