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Is back-dooring considered cheating?

Is back-dooring considered cheating?

Is back-dooring considered cheating or exploiting?

 

I used to play DoTA with a bunch of my friends until we discovered Demigod, now this game is our primary competitive game amongst each other.  One thing I’ve noticed in online games, or even a commonly used tactic by the AI (well, maybe tactic or just plain stupidity on AI part) is to back-door.

 

Demigods run through defenses to take flags, especially portals, to stick massive damage to their opponents.

 

Personally, I don’t see a problem with this.  Often it is a gamble, and different demigods are better equipped back-dooring, but with tools such as teleports and capture locks I think it is a viable tactic.  Erebus is even able to bat swarm directly to the enemy base on the Crucible Level.

 

However, I have yet to use this against my friends for fear or retribution before I appeal to the community for feedback.  Is this the dirty, underhanded trick it was considered to be in DoTA (sorry to compare Demigod and DoTA) or is it a viable technique to win games?

 

115,107 views 41 replies
Reply #26 Top

back-dooring isn't considered cheating in DotA by the leagues except under certain circumstances (TDA, for example, has a few limitations on BD'ing).  the only people who consider it wholely "illegal" are PUBs, and anyone familiar with official rules just laughs and keeps on doing it (unless they're losing because of it).

anyway, BD'ing is fine in demigod.  it isn't cheating.  it isn't exploiting.  the game clearly allows and even encourages (cap locks, siege abilities) players to take undefended flags and kill undefended structures.

it IS too easy to BD in crucible with blink abilities.  GPG should fix that, and the fastest and safest way to get something fixed that isn't technically a "cheat" or "exploit" is to abuse the hell out of it.

Reply #27 Top

I just won a very, very close game by "backdooring". The enemy was so busy grinding creeps and taking our flags that he completely neglected defense. I loaded up on health pots and zipped behind his lines to open his portals to our side's minions. It took them at least a minute before they recaptured their portals and went on to happily grind their levels up. So I thought "wtf" and did it again, but by this time our team had enough cash to buy giants. Boy, what a nasty surprise for them.

What can we learn? Never forget to check your portals once in a while. If you're too stupid to think defensively once in a while, it's your fault.

So, using the enemies' portals against them is NOT cheating. If they're too busy watching their backs, it's their fault.

Reply #28 Top

Backdooring makes me want to break peoples jaws...

Reply #30 Top

If you weren't supposed to backdoor they could have easily made structures invulnerable/uncaptureable until you meet certain the right conditions. They didn't, so do it.

Reply #31 Top

In dota someone backdoors you you can't undo it. In demigod you can recapture the flag and if you are lucky you quick you just get more xp from there creeps and no other damage done.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting Charvel1, reply 1
Since both sides can do it seems perfectly legit to me. If it was one-sided I could understand any outcry over it.

I was in a match last night on Crucible where the opposing Erebus and TB both jumped over to our base and took our portal. My teammate and I were pretty shocked they could do it only because we'd never seen it before. I'll be on the lookout for stuff like that now and maybe use it myself sometime.

 

Was I in that game? I was playing Erebus, ny ally was a TB against a Rook and someone else. Crucible games don't register on my pantheon records, so I can't check it myself. After TB found out I was teleporting to get cats in the base, he bought a teleportation item and joined in a few times.

 

As for Erebus warping into the back of your base? Anyone can do it. Erebus can just do it sooner without favour. If you want to have the same basewarping experience, just use the Cloak of Elfenkind, or the Cloak of Night.

Reply #33 Top

In dota you cant reverse a backdoor. There are also invis heroes and heroes that can teleport anywhere (erebus isn't even close to the same thing) so you can't see it coming. It's just a bullshit move IMO. But in DG it sucks, but you can stop it, reverse it, and see it coming.

Reply #35 Top

In dota you cant reverse a backdoor. There are also invis heroes and heroes that can teleport anywhere (erebus isn't even close to the same thing) so you can't see it coming.

Only Furion could teleport wherever on demand.  Sentry wards see invis heroes coming.

In DG a Rook can set up a tower and everyone can teleport in.  It's almost more effective in DG....

Reply #36 Top

Keep in mind, if you backdoor someone, you cut yourself off from minions to get experience from.  So I don't see it as such a big deal early game.  Taking over portals late game is of course very useful.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting InfiniteVengeance, reply 10

In dota you cant reverse a backdoor. There are also invis heroes and heroes that can teleport anywhere (erebus isn't even close to the same thing) so you can't see it coming.
Only Furion could teleport wherever on demand.  Sentry wards see invis heroes coming.

In DG a Rook can set up a tower and everyone can teleport in.  It's almost more effective in DG....

 

Sentry wards see literally 2 inches unless someone is by them. Also thunder panda can for all intents and purposes port anywhere on a whim with no cooldown. In DotA once a tower has lost health it has zero way to regen. Once raxes are dead there is no bringing them back. It is fully irreversible.

Reply #38 Top

Sentry wards see literally 2 inches unless someone is by them. In DotA once a tower has lost health it has zero way to regen.

That's why you place both sentry and observer wards - observers for the sight and sentries for the invis - assuming any enemy even has invis, in which case you might not need the sentry.

Also thunder panda can for all intents and purposes port anywhere on a whim with no cooldown

Er, except for the cooldown.

Once raxes are dead there is no bringing them back. It is fully irreversible

Raxes do regen though.  Don't let them die.  If you have the sight you can fully prevent people from killing the raxes before you kill them.  And then you push while they're dead. (Which can be 2 minutes or more depending on their level) Can't do that in Demigod, the death timer is so low....

Reply #39 Top

Quoting InfiniteVengeance, reply 13

Sentry wards see literally 2 inches unless someone is by them. In DotA once a tower has lost health it has zero way to regen.
That's why you place both sentry and observer wards - observers for the sight and sentries for the invis - assuming any enemy even has invis, in which case you might not need the sentry.



Also thunder panda can for all intents and purposes port anywhere on a whim with no cooldown
Er, except for the cooldown.


Once raxes are dead there is no bringing them back. It is fully irreversible
Raxes do regen though.  Don't let them die.  If you have the sight you can fully prevent people from killing the raxes before you kill them.  And then you push while they're dead. (Which can be 2 minutes or more depending on their level) Can't do that in Demigod, the death timer is so low....

 

Sentry wards help but their site range isn't as far as a heroes.

 

Thunderpanda's ult is instant cast, zero cooldown. Soooooo, maybe you havent played since they changed him. But he now selects a point on the map and rides the lightning all the way their (mana permitting). With one or two items he can go from the river to the fountain faster than furion can with no way to detect it. Just bam, "Hai, whats up?!"

The death timer is never 2 mins. The longest is 90 seconds, which is a min and a half. Granted its way longer than the DG timer but you also can buy back in DotA which you can't in DG. Some heroe's can explode buildings before most people have time to even think. Once they're gone they won't come back and it's basically like having the 30% creep damage and hp flag in that lane. If left unchecked that lane will win the game on its own.

Yes raxes regen, towers don't. Point is once the damage is done in dota it can never be undone. In DG you have that option.

Reply #40 Top

DotA was too imbalanced by the time Icefrog got it that there is no way to balance the game without completely altering the core stats of the game, which is something you don't want to do in a populated game.  So, heroes in DotA become unstoppable with later items, and since items are the only thing you can buy with your gold... backdooring would instantly allow specific heroes to win the game with the right items, which would then completely null the whole point of the game, and thus it was banned.

Demigod has somewhat a similar issue, but definitely not as serious, and can easily be stopped.  AKA, your Demigod should never be at a point where he can take out many buildings via backdooring if you have a decent team, wherein as in DotA, a hero can easily destroy a lane permanently in less than 5 seconds.

Reply #41 Top

Dota and Demigod are similar in a lot of ways but this subject oddly is not one of them.  In dota a backdoor can completely and utterly destroy a competitive game and in many ways end the game well before the game would have otherwise. Towers are buffer zones for creeps in dota, and will slow down pushes in most cases enough for teams to get in position to defend.  Therefore, all though not illegal, is usually frowned upon or considered cheap. 

In Demigod, however, there are multiple types of games, not just kill citadel and win.  The scaling of power between NPCs/Towers and Heros are quite different.  Capping a flag behind enemy lines is quickly remedied and not nearly as descructive long term, and generally can be used as a tactical strategy to remove one of the opposing DG's from the front lines.  Not to mention if it goes unnoticed that is simply a mistake by the defending team... not something that should be frowned upon.