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Demigod: Day 8 Status Report!

Demigod: Day 8 Status Report!

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Me (Draginol is my other handle) and my friend at GPG working on a problem

So today we got a pretty good new update from Gas Powered Games that we’ve been testing with today.

A lot of the changes have to do with tolerances. How much time should the game wait for others to join before it assumes they’re too slow and kicks them out before the game even starts? How much time should it wait for someone to join a lobby or a game before it says “No, they’re not going to get in?” and blocks them?

So today we played a lot of games with the new build and saw a lot of improvements. Thanks to tricks we’ve picked up from last week when the servers were being crushed, we have gotten a lot better at simulating peek server hours where the connection stuff is most likely to fail.

Right now, the issue we’re trying to fix is where people join a custom game and because they joined at the same time, they are not connected to each other.   That’s what we’re play testing right now and the results look very promising.

Developing games is like a strategy game

Like a strategy game, I’m in the unpleasant position of having to make choices on what people work on and what doesn’t.

If, by now, you have concluded that Demigod is an unusual game in many ways, you’re right.  Typically, the publisher (Stardock) releases the game, collects data and sends them off to the game’s developer (Gas Powered Games) and waits for a “patch” which the publisher then puts through QA and then releases.

Demigod, as you probably have surmised, has been developed differently.  Early last year, I pushed for Demigod to have more single-player elements. But over time, it became clear that everyone involved (at both Stardock and GPG) really enjoyed it more as a multiplayer game.  But in my mind, if you’re going to do that, you need to have lots of cool things like match making, and tournament stuff and long-term expandability.

That’s where Stardock started getting involved in development little by little. At first, it was just a single developer. Then another, and then another.  Pretty soon, we were adding overlays to present more player data, developing a friends list and other community features along with a multiplayer match-making, pantheon stuff, etc.

Stardock and GPG get along great. But you are talking about two veteran development teams working on some pretty sophisticated stuff at great distances.  That’s where I’ve increasingly become involved in pressing both Stardock and GPG development teams on what needs to go in when.  So if you have an issue with Demigod, don’t blame anyone but me because since the game’s release, I’ve essentially taken on the overall development prioritization for good or ill.

Ramifications

So for example, we know that most people can connect to other people. We know this for a fact. The problem is that for a significant percentage of people, it’s #$%# flakey. 

You know what I mean. You set up a custom game and it becomes a fiasco getting people into that custom game because people aren’t connected. Or you try to get a pantheon game going and players get kicked out or you end up with 2 on 2 with a bunch of bots.  Or the same thing with skirmish.

And then there’s the people who just get NAT failed messages or who just can’t connect no matter what.

I’ve gotten a lot of email telling me that I’m “killing Demigod” because I keep making things out to be “worse than they are”.  It’s not my job to paint a happy picture. I’m an engineer, not a marketer. And I hang out enough on the chat channel and on the forums to know that the problems mentioned above are real, must be addressed ASAP!

So anyway, during this week the big architecture change going on is the UDP proxy server setup.  But IT has told me that it will take a few days to do proper load testing on it (i.e. what happens when there’s 20,000 people on there?) 

But the tactical things I’ve been focusing Stardock/GPG onto this week are fixing the connection issues for those who play but find the game flakey, making Pantheon and Skirmish not have bots in them if people have experience, working on the favor point tracking, etc. 

Since I have only N developers at Stardock and M at GPG, that means that if I’m focusing them on those things, other things will go more slowly (including the Proxy stuff).

Tonight’s build is being tested

So like on Tuesday, we do have a new build, this one much more significant because it includes a new Demigod.exe too, but we’re testing it and since it’s 9pm as I write this, it’s not a good idea to put it up this late so it looks like it’ll be tomorrow.

Status Updates long term

I’ve read comments that some people do like these status reports.  Since we’re starting to come to the end of the serious connection problems (it may not seem like to some externally but it really is getting pretty close) I was wondering if people would like to continue to see these things when we start to talk about ideas for new Demigods, new items, new multiplayer modes, how you’d like to see clans and groups and friends handled.  I really don’t mind doing these but obviously don’t want people to get sick of reading these walls of text. :)

Cheers all and see you tomorrow!

91,356 views 116 replies
Reply #76 Top

Communication = good

Silence = bad

ergo

Status reports = good

Reply #78 Top

Quoting Zaisha, reply 1
Communication = good

Silence = bad

ergo

Status reports = good

 

What he said! I can't wait for gameplay status updates.

Reply #79 Top

Quoting Zaisha, reply 1
Communication = good

Silence = bad

ergo

Status reports = good

Quoted for truth and 100% agreement.

Reply #80 Top

These reports are very informative and I'd love to see this trend continue in the future. Given how you do, after all, have a company to manage, I'd assume that in the future they will be a weekly event, if not rarer, however it always inspires confidence in the product when the developer/publisher shows so much support.

It is good to hear that some of the worst problems in relation to the Demigod architecture are getting fixed. I am eager for the day when the multiplayer will be stable enough for Stardock and Gas Powered Games to take a vacation and come back to discuss content updates. :0)

Reply #81 Top

Thanks for the updates. And yes keep these coming!! A problem with so many bigger developers now is that they barely communicate to their community. Keeping your community involved in both ideas and and updates being made certainly seems to produce the best results and it keeps everyone interested, excited and confident in the dev team.

Keep up the good work :)

Reply #82 Top

Frogboy.

The reason I bought Demigod, without looking at gameplay videos, or paying attention to lame reviews (like Gamespot's) is because of the way your company is run.

You could say that I bought DG exactly for these updates. At first, right after buying DG and trying it, I was skeptical about my investment. But knowing the dedication of Stardock, I ignored that skepticism.

I can see that I was right to do so. These updates are amazing. I've never even heard of a company being as transparent as you guys.

Although this game still needs a lot of work to be as polished as possible, I know we'll get there.

Keep it up!!

 

Reply #83 Top

Sure, I'd absolutely be interested in further Demigod Journals.  I would completely understand and accept if they were less frequent once all the connectivity kinks and bugs were worked out, but I'm always interested in what direction games are being taken.

 

Also worth noting is that these journals have been the only reason I didn't go for a refund.

Reply #84 Top

The level of communication with the community in this case is exemplary and is a model of how the player base should be treated by a developer/publisher for longevity of a game and for brand name recognition for future titles/expansions/content.

The key words imho are

Frequent (daily is great if possible!),

Specific (give reasonably specific details not some meaningless legalistic platitudes will say like "we're improving the connectivity"),

Frank (being honest keeps the credibility with the player base - I think the most important aspect).

I certainly hope it continues and that of course the issues are resolved over a reasonable time.

Reply #85 Top

Brad, these aren't just walls of text. They're walls of love, hope, new ideas and continuous consumer satisfaction for all of us. And I'm sure they also help you get some things in perspective as you write them.

I for one would love to see these continue to dazzle my eyes with new information about what's in the horizon for this great game, and also play the role of a sparring-program between you, the engineer, and the consumers of your brilliance.

OK, maybe a bit too asslicky, but damn it, you deserve it!
Reply #86 Top

Quoting owly_owl, reply 17
Am I the only one who dont want to read status reports but to play the game?

No. Obviously all of us with connection issues would rather be playing.

But Frogboy isn't the only one working on these problems (and likely isn't even the primary one working on it). Him writing these updates doesn't really slow down the work of getting those connection problems solved.

If he wasn't writing these updates, the problems would take the same amount of time (maybe a tiny bit less) to fix, but we'd have no idea what was going on with it instead. I certainly wouldn't have stuck around this long if I was faced by a wall of silence.

 

That's how I see it. Given that it's going to take time to fix the problem, I'm a much happier customer when I can see what they're doing and what the progress is then if I hear "we'll fix it at some point", and nothing else.

Reply #87 Top

By all means, keep the status updates coming.  I really enjoyed the video update.  Thanks a bunch.

 

@HaunterV:  Wow, I might have to get that game.

Reply #88 Top

I will also submit my vote in favor of continued status reports. I would personally be a *lot* more frustrated with the connectivity issues if I didn't have an idea of what was going on behind the scenes. Admittedly, I'm very interested in all facets of game development, so I would even enjoy seeing more info than what's posted. ;)  

I'm very much looking forward to smooth and quick connections! Keep up the good work!

 

Seth

Reply #89 Top

Thank you for the update.  By all means, please continue with these updates.  The fact that you make them is what has kept me from becoming totally synical about the game and walking back to the store to return it.  It means that you are keeping in contact with us, that you care what we think and that you are human.

I don't mean that as a threat, it's just the simple truth.  I understand that your networking experience internally may be working well, but my experience last night was far from well.  I am looking forward to the new patch today.

 

Reply #91 Top

Any idea when you plan to release the update today?

Will it include the connection timing bug in Pantheon fix that's coming from GPG?

 

Thanks,

 

Javaslinger

Reply #92 Top

I agree with what the others are saying. Your status reports are really great. They were a huge factor for me in deciding if I should buy this game or not. Sure I love this game but your company finally treats customers like... customers even after people bought the game.

I really hope you guys continue on doing what you are doing in form of community communication.

Reply #93 Top

when we start to talk about ideas for new Demigods, new items, new multiplayer modes, how you’d like to see clans and groups and friends handled.

I appreciate the status reports.  Although once the connectivity issues are resolved, I think there are still other (lesser) crises before thinking about new content, and I would love to see them addressed or at least acknowleded before any of the other things you mentioned.

 

1)  Inteface stuff.  Get alt+move behaving better.  See minions and allied DGs represented on the HUD.  Make Camera zoom via keyboard smoother.  Don't reset camera on death.   (the swoop is nice, but it should go back to where it was for folks who don't have mousewheels)

2)  Clans/Groups/Friends. 

3) Replays!!

I hope you guys already have at least something in place in most of these areas, because I don't think the game can go much longer without them.  (Especially 2 and 3)  .

 

I know I will be very disappointed once connectivity is better if we start talking about new DGs, items, modes, etc. before addressing these issues.  If we're still in the brainstorming phase on these essential features, I'm a little concerned

But please continue with the status reports so I can guage my excitement. :)

 

 

 

 

Reply #94 Top

I really don’t mind doing these but obviously don’t want people to get sick of reading these walls of text.

The world would be a better place with more walls of text and fewer tl;dr kiddies.  Bring it. ;)

Edit: Wow.  Non-standard forum syntax is non-standard. o_O Quote fixed.

Reply #95 Top

I am very happy to see the status reports on a daily basis.

One thing I find frustrating about them though, is that is seems the negative favor points bug, and favor points being stuck bug, either doesn't get mentioned, or gets mentioned casually only in passing.  These are major game-breaking issues that give the players who didn't run into these bugs huge in-game advantages because the game is working as intended for them, yet not for their opponents/victims who cannot use favor items.

Personally I've had my favor in multiplayer stuck at -1350 (negative 1350) for the past few days, and it never changes after any game. 

It would be amazing if the status updates could address this issue head-on, in detail and give an ETA on when exactly it is expected to be fixed as opposed to the previous status updates which just glossed over this issue.

Reply #96 Top

These updates are cute, but when core functionality like tracking favor points, demigods correctly attacking their clicked target and maintaining it, and not being able to add bots to slots in the lobby are broken, I ask... why did you release this game already?

 

Call me a jerk, I don't care.  I spent $40 for a broken game.

Reply #97 Top

I bought the game, even with all the reports of connection issues, because of the status reports and how on top of it and honest you were being.  When developers or publishers take the time to keep their customers informed, it goes a long way with me. 

 

 

Reply #98 Top

continue the report please ^^ really improve the overall experience knowing what you guys are working and how it progress etc...

Reply #99 Top

Frogboy and Toady One.  We need more amphibious developers who give updates to the community :)

 

As many others have I bought Demigod mostly because of the Stardock branding and knowing the level of commitment and support that label entails.  GPG has put out some very fine games themselves, so I knew this would be a good buy.  Right now the game is great, there are just a few little kinks to work out of the system, which is to be expected, though perhaps not as much as has happened ;)

Keep the updates coming :)

Reply #100 Top



 Since we’re starting to come to the end of the serious connection problems (it may not seem like to some externally but it really is getting pretty close) I was wondering if people would like to continue to see these things when we start to talk about ideas for new Demigods, new items, new multiplayer modes, how you’d like to see clans and groups and friends handled.  I really don’t mind doing these but obviously don’t want people to get sick of reading these walls of text.
Cheers all and see you tomorrow!

 

Yes, keep them coming, because the connection issues aren't the only issues. I still would like to be able to actually play the game (single player...multiplayer... I don't care) at some point?