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Demigod: Day 6 Status Report!

Demigod: Day 6 Status Report!

image Greetings!  Tons of different things to talk about today so bear with me.

Based on the logs, multiplayer is working pretty decently for most people but for others it is completely broken.  A program called Game Ranger has helped a lot of people but there’s a lot of warez users on there.

Let’s talk about the pirates

I’ve read a lot of misconceptions out there. First, no, we very much don’t like it when people pirate our stuff.  Our position has simply been that people are going to pirate a game whether it has draconian copy protection or not and the people who will buy a PC game will buy it and the people who won’t won’t. 

The first few days of Demigod being miserable on-line was largely the result of us simply not having taken into account the effect pirated copies would have on our server resources. So we had to scrounge servers and get users onto there.

Once we got legitimate users onto the servers that were isolated from the infrastructure that was being pounded on by the pirates, the connection situation improved dramatically as you know.

It’s easy and convenient to blame piracy for the launch debacle of Demigod but that would be inaccurate. Even had Demigod had some nasty copy protection on the DVD, it would still have been cracked and this problem would have come up anyway.

So contrary to what some have said, Stardock’s anti-copy protection stance is not the cause the first few days of Demigod’ connectivity. More like, our inexperience in publishing multiplayer-centric games caused us to underestimate the server infrastructure needed.

We do not intend to change our policy on copy protection. This leads us to the next part.

Understanding how Stardock supports games

Our “copy protection” is to treat our games as a service rather than a product.  Those of you who have our non-games like Object Desktop or Multiplicity know what I speak of.

That is, we keep releasing updates to our games for a long time.  Our publishing agreement with Gas Powered Games includes game updates to the game for at least a year. And after that, we still expect to release updates.

Once the multiplayer connectivity stuff is straightened out, we can start to talk about the kinds of things we can add like team based joining, how clan support should be, what kinds of items people would like to see, what kinds of additional demigods people want, and so on.

But our first priority has to be to those users who find connectivity flakey or just plain non functional. They paid $40 for a game and we have an obligation to help them before we start adding in new features and such.

Stardock’s business model is that our titles generate revenue over a long period of time rather than in the first 90 days. So we look at our journey with you being at the very beginning.

Why we love the community

Another thing that really keeps us going is just how wonderful the community is.  Obviously, it should be clear by now that we weren’t anticipating the kinds of connection challenges some people have run into. Our guys have been working with the guys at Gas Powered Games night and day on resolving them. 

I can assure you that Gas Powered Games is as interested as we are in making sure problems people run into are solve quickly.  Not in some patch a month from now but like updates in a matter of days.

But what really also has made this experience a bit amazing is just how great the community has been to us.  One user (OrleanKnight) sent our team a box of Mrs. Fields cookies.  Other users have sent us cards and pictures their kids have made of various Demigods.  How can you not love such a group of people?

Let’s face it, you guys just rock out there.

Getting the next update out

We’re going to start to try to be a bit more careful about how quickly we put out updates. The last update went out without updating the pantheon security checks to support the new version which resulted in most games not being counted. That’s the kind of thing that haste brings.

That said, as I type this, the team is working on an interim update to Demigod.  It doesn’t “Fix” connectivity issues one way or the other but does provide better error messages (and we still have work there).

For example, one “Fix” that still needs to go in is the “Failed to join game” message in custom games. What it should say is “Game is full”. But a lot of frustration people run into is in the kinds of error messages that are shown (or lack there of). 

I’m pretty sure this update tonight does start to wean experienced users off of AI players in skirmish and pantheon. At the very least, it has the support so it can become a server side change tomorrow.

Eliminating the connection issue

For those who can’t connect (you know who you are) the solution will be the UDP proxy servers. They spent a lot of time today getting them up and starting to test them to see how they work.  Unfortunately, it’s not something that can be done overnight. The team says later in the week they hope to have it ready.

But what that will do is alter Demigod from a peer-to-peer game to a quasi-client-server game that maintains the peer-to-peer performance.  If there are any IT people reading this, feel free to explain to lay people the significance of being able to do this in a couple of days without having to change the game client. :) 

Long Term

For us, Demigod is a long term commitment. So people who worry about this being like a typical release and move on type thing need only to look at our other games.  We will be continuing to work to ensure Demigod evolves over time.  I look forward to having official tournaments between individuals, clans, etc.  So there is definitely a lot to look forward to.

If any of you have any questions, just comment here and I’ll do my best.

Cheers!

 

Evening update

Just wanted to give you a head's up that we're not going to put out the update tonight. We have it staged but there is a concern about releasing it and then having the team go home in the event there is some unknown problem. So we're going to put this up tomorrow afternoon. Stay tuned.

216,810 views 103 replies
Reply #78 Top

Just wanted to thanks the Stardock team for their effort in fixing the connectivity issue .. ^^

Lets hope this update will let us play this awesome game online :thumbsup:

 

Reply #79 Top

The only issue I have now is CRAZY LAGG... Could that be something with my setup? Could it be tuning the Demigod servers? Please share...

Could be high ping to other players - what ping ranges do you typically experience when the game is lagging? High values would indicate that your connection to the other players is poor (I presume SP games run fluently); if so, what kind of connection do you have? A very low upstream could offset your experience - at least in Sweden, the ISP:s tend to offer a much better downstream than upstream - so you might want to look into that. For a low ping, you ideally want to connect to players in your own vicinity (id est, no overseas players) - though to my understanding, that is beyond our sphere of influence. Can you play other network-intensive games without lag?

I guess it could also be caused by a faulty firewall setup. Can you access any firewall/router logs? Perhaps they could provide you with some insight. I'm currently not booted into windows so unfortunately I can't check my network setup. You know of the network (port) setup tool in the Demigod bin folder, right? If you haven't done so already, compare the settings to your own firewall setup.

If none of the suggestions above appear to rectify the lag, try disabling your anti-virus before running the game.

Hope any of it helps.

Reply #81 Top


But what that will do is alter Demigod from a peer-to-peer game to a quasi-client-server game that maintains the peer-to-peer performance.  If there are any IT people reading this, feel free to explain to lay people the significance of being able to do this in a couple of days without having to change the game client.  

I've been in IT for about 20 years and have a good understanding of Network Address Translation (NAT).  Basically, it is a simple premise that can be quite complex to implement whereby the computer communicating with a host on a remote network through a proxy.  This proxy, for the vast majority of those who read these forums, is a residential router such as (in the USA at least) a Linksys or Buffalo or Netgear.  Many of these integrate wireless and wired in one inexpensive device.

The router receives a request to fetch a page from Yahoo.com (for a simple example) from your computer.  The router then goes to Yahoo and requests the page.  Yahoo.com sends the page to the router (it has no idea, so to speak, that it is NOT talking to a computer [nor does it "care"]) and once that is done, the router hands off that information directly back to your computer.

Peer-to-peer (p2p) is slightly different, but the router is still the linchpin.  P2P communications differs from typical client-server in that instead of one host "controling" the communication and the other simply making requests, each of them perform both roles simultaneously.

What Frogboy is saying above is highly sophisticated and should require some very impressive processing performance.  Frankly, I'm not sure how they're going to take a mechanic that was built to ... wait, maybe I do.  Perhaps what they'll do is track the status of p2p connections to check link states.  If one (or more) clients within a set are failing to connect to each other, then the server will then take over the connection and act as a proxy - instead of each gamer's PC who can't directly reach the other gamer's PC, as is the "normal" way to connect the Demigod currently works, would connect to the server, who would in turn then connect to the other gamer's PC.

At least that is what I'd have to guess...  Frogboy can correct me if it interests anyone.  :)

Reply #82 Top

Concerning pings, latency and all that stuff.

 

I'm in Moscow, so compared to USA - its like other side of the world. I did few tests at speedtest.net to check my ping to different parts of EU and US. I also played few RU-only games, just to be sure. The results are following:

 

RU only - 50 ms. Ppl were all across Russia, so it way better than many lans. Really. Only problem i seen - guy had really shitty bandwidth so he jumped to 500_ ms after game started.

Speedtest shows ping to diffenets parts of Russia ranging from 12 to 60 ms.

Overall: freaking awesome.

 

EU - 100-120. 150 max. Gameplay is as smooth as at 50 ms. I never managed to see the diff. Single disconnect in 10 games.

Speedtest shows 100-200 ms to differemt parts of EU.

Overall: Excellent

 

US - 200-250 ms. Gameplay is still pretty smooth. From time to time i have VERY minor lags. As a Regulus player i certanly see em - as a hit-and-run guy i cant afford laggin much. 7 games - no disconnects.

Speedtest shows 250-500 ms to different parts of US.

Overall: Good

 

Tets were made on 8000/1000 ADSL link , ComcorTV, Russia. Ping to biggiest inet hub in moscow - M-IX(9) - 9 ms.

 

P2P really shines imho. Good job.

Reply #83 Top

Now this is what is great about these guys!  Thanks for the update info and (waiting for the update...!) and also for the human-like caring!  Best PC software company out there IMO!  Standing behind you all the way my $40 went!

Reply #84 Top

Hey, I' d like to know will you guys create new demigods and new maps in the near future?

Reply #85 Top

Quoting Axnor, reply 9
Hey, I' d like to know will you guys create new demigods and new maps in the near future?

 

Yes, they have at least 2 new demigods planned.

Reply #86 Top

and also for the human-like caring!
Bwaahaha!!  Finally the robots are working as designed!  :cylon:   ;)

Reply #87 Top

Bwaahaha!! Finally the robots are working as designed

So, like, every time I poke you in the eye you don't actually feel anything 'cause you're just a glorified toaster? :(

Man, what a letdown.

I'll just go bust up a powerline and start zapping you instead, I guess.

Reply #88 Top

Quoting Zubaz, reply 11

and also for the human-like caring!Bwaahaha!!  Finally the robots are working as designed!   

 

That's it. Give me my refund :D

Reply #89 Top

just wanted to point out that im one of the guys who have zero connection problems , or well close to it anyways have timed out 3-4 times in lobby for custom games , 1 time ingame and can always connect to all people except the ones having troubles with others. takes me 5 min max to get a pantheon/skirmish game going (although i dont feel like playing  against bots anymore so stopped playing that) . 

 

the biggest issue i have is the ranking/pantheon system which works ... soso .. and the REAL iissue at hand is the abilities/items which doesnt work , my god so many times i have died cause the bite didnt go through, this is a serious issue if its gonna be any kind of competetive play , see how mym/sk or any team would react if the stormbolt didnt fire off .

 

but well anyways ... love the game so far , tad easy if you have played a lot of dota before but i guess people will grow into it and get better.

Reply #90 Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 12

Bwaahaha!! Finally the robots are working as designed
So, like, every time I poke you in the eye you don't actually feel anything 'cause you're just a glorified toaster?

Man, what a letdown.

I'll just go bust up a powerline and start zapping you instead, I guess.

 

The BRAVE LITTLE TOASTER that is.

Reply #91 Top

Please fix this.

Skirmish Problem

 

(I played a 4v2 skirmish AND my one teammate was AI. I played against 2 AI and 2 humans...)  It is actually not an advantage unlike some people think.  Unless I have AI that is smarter than a box of burnt toast from those toasters you guys have running the show! J/K!

Reply #92 Top

I believe there is a thread in need of love.

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/347309/page/1/#replies

 

This has been an issue that has plagued me since day 1.

Reply #93 Top

Dunno if you're aware but there's a possible bug exploit now with the generals.

If you buy Monk Idol then summon, Then sell it to buy the Idol T2 summon etc

You can have all 8 healing pets, making you virtually invulnerable.

There's some strange behavior with the pets too, if you order them to attack an ennemy and then the ennemy backs up a bit, they'll switch target. They should'nt.

Also sometimes if you try to chain spells too fast, your Demigod will freeze and you'll have to order him to move. Really easy to see with Combo Demigods like Unclean Beast if you try to spit then grasp. The graps won't trigger and you'll get stucked doing nothing.

Reply #94 Top

Quoting OsirisDawn, reply 16

Quoting Blackwing_dk, reply 25
...
As I think my connection problems has something to do with that, I'm a little discouraged that all you mention about the connectivity issues, are the proxy servers.

Is this fix for the NAT stuff you mentioned in the weekend still in the works??

And yes, I know very little about networks

Thanks !


I am no official, but as i understand it should fix your problem too.

 

Yeah, well I surely hope so :)

All this NAT stuff just confuses me and pisses me off in-game when I receive the error message.

Reply #95 Top

Quoting Mandrakia, reply 18
Also sometimes if you try to chain spells too fast, your Demigod will freeze and you'll have to order him to move. Really easy to see with Combo Demigods like Unclean Beast if you try to spit then grasp. The graps won't trigger and you'll get stucked doing nothing.

Ahh, that's why - I had it happen to my UB several times, but in the frenzy of battle there is little activity geared toward investigating abnormalities. I guess I'll have to go easier on the combos.

Thanks for the clarification.

And thanks Stardock/GPG for a wonderful game; I'm eagerly awaiting the next couple of patches.

Reply #97 Top

Yes, I second this...  update?  patch??  feed me!!!!

Reply #99 Top

Even just ONE improvement in the patch (other than online MP) would finally make me feel we have a better game than the pirates.  Anything.  Heck, I've even settle for a prettier mouse pointer.  Anything,j ust so I/we can say: HA pirates, legitamate/legal owners have a better game!

Reply #100 Top

Quoting Zack52, reply 9

Quoting Frogboy, reply 11
Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.
 

I'll tell you why,  most people know that the guys starting custom games all know each other and either;

A:  Want to "pugstomp"

B:  Want to go against other teams

It's not a big deal.  Pantheon should remain kind of anonymous instead of allowing pre-made teams to queue up,  OR have a seperate ladder for teams and one for those who queue without one.

I think there's an even simpler answer: you can't join custom games from the game. Not easily at least. It hangs for 20-30 seconds at a time. The only non-maddening way to join a custom game is to go through Impulse, but most people don't know you can do that.