Why not just put dedicated servers like every other RTS and end our suffering?

Yes, this doesn't make you look ignorant at all.

Please feel free to share your opinion when you actually understand computers.

Uhhhhhh... I don't think there are ANY RTS' with DedServs...

If you play Wc3 you host the games at your own Pc. Waht you mean with decicated servers is the Battlenet and it just helps to connect players/ find players it doesn't host anygame ( at least for custemgames).

Because this system is actually fantastic, all you have to do is get your stuff configured right.  Once the community starts figuring it out (and once they resolve the few remaining issues) then this game will be great online!!!

As a former MMO player, i can't tell you how frustrating it is to be playing against someone who is flickering all over the place, or where you're in attack range but can't attack due to latency.  I have yet to see that in this game.  Every online game feels like a LAN.

Battleforge has dedicated servers.

And Battleforge is amazing! /endsarcasm

 

The only problem is that not everyone CAN configure their stuff right. Some routers are just incompatible or some ISPs/Universities have firewalls that won't let the ports be forwarded.

 

For example, several of my friends could not EVER connect to the rest of us in Company of Heroes (and likewise DoW2) due to the P2P stuff. They could connect to some of us, but not all of us. Forwarding ports didn't help because, say, they had a Netgear router.

 

Hopefully this tunneling driver can pull off a miracle.

Fine, nitpick, the point is if you're playing an RTS or an FPS, you're likely not playing on a dedicated server. 

And making a statement like this to someone who may not be all knowing about the ins and outs of How Peer to Peer works and port forwarding etc, doesn't make you look like a condescending twat. Please feel free to make comments on forums when you actually understand how to be polite.

You were doing so well until you said FPS. Try again.

......

Blizzard DOES in fact host games FOR players.

 

In Diablo 2 in the closed b.net every game is hosted FROM blizzard.

In WC3 every Ranked Ladder Match is Hosted from Blizzard. In Wc3 if you Host a Custom Game YOU are the Host and manage all connection's.

 

In WC3 you can host a game with a dedicated root server if you run tools like GHost++ (i do that, and the server run's on 50ms and is way faster than any realistic p2p connection)

The only bad thing is: you need a 3party tool. So if Stardock would have been smart they just includet this "Dedicated Root Server" host System into the multyplayer part and it could have saved them a lot of trouble. Instead they choose to go with the p2p crap. On one side they are dodging costs with that because they don't have to pay for games servers like blizzard does, on the other hand they are selling it as an "INPROVMENT" to the players.

Kudos to stardock for selling dodging costs to the players as inprovment!

No source games (Other than L4D) have DedServs, Call of Duty series don't have DedServs, I beleive UT3 has 1 per game mode? The point is dedicated servers are not required nor are they as often as you'd like to believe. They simply need to futz around with the matchmaking and connection code a bit more until it's just right.

Well, if you read this post  http://frogboy.impulsedriven.net/article/345345/SUPPORT_Solving_Connectivity_Problems you may understand why P2P seems the only way to go for Demigod for Stardock and GPG

 

Do you mean Dedicated Servers hosted BY Valve and these publishers? I'm going to assume that's what you mean since all of those games DO have people running dedicated servers. If you're not playing on a DedServ you're lagging.

I mean via the developer. If you mean allowing the consumer to host the servers then I'm all for that, if you want Stardock/GPG to host them, I disagree with that. So long as they add administrative rights and such. 

 

so you mean that

"This was necessary because it needed to have the least amount of latency possible since your moves are directly sent to the other players rather than to a server first."

 

So i will drop one word and it will just OWNE you....

 

Counterstrike

 

nuffsaid

 

ok... why does that One Word own him?  A little support to your post would be great.

 

counterstrike, terrible game, shit connections, hacker filled, yup... That is a GREAT word.

 

People talk about strange things here.

 

All I want is a solid/decent connection, and I don't realy care how the game developers will do it, if THEY DO IT!

Confused as to how that's "OWNE"ing him. CS is not about melee, it's about you point where they are, you click, they die. In games where melee is a big deal and they have to go to a server, you can have 20 foot melee hits (Ala TF2)

Read the post. 

 

.....is this guy for real?

like....do you think a game like Demigod needs a lower letancy than counterstrike? are you for real....HAHAHA oh my god that is awesome

 

Except that's nothing like what you said. You said you weren't using a dedicated server at all for FPS games. What Stardock needs to do is have the option for us to host games. Some people have good connections and it would benifit everyone to connect to just one person, and to revert to P2P or elect a new host should that person rage quit.

OK, let's play a little game called "Teach someone lag compensation"

When you're shooting at someone, it doesn't really matter the distance between us because:

A: I can't tell what you're shooting at, I can only tell you're hitting more or you're not hitting me.
B: It's about skill, not distance or where he aims as far as I can see. The better shot kills

however when it's melee, things start to look weird with big lag "Hey, I was like 15 feet away from him, how did he hit me with a melee?" because on his screen, you were only 5 feet away, close enough for a melee attack. In a melee heavy game, a P2P system is highly recommended for such reasons.

Questions class? 

 

all right i expain why i talk about counterstrike.......

 

In a Shooter a FPS game only very low ping give you the ability to react extremly fast. only low ping makes it possible to not have people lagging arround and teleporting arround. So low ping and very fast connection is MUST HAVE for all FPS games.

 

in a RTS game a ping of 120 or 150 is not a bad thing.....in counterstrike you extremly rarly see people with a ping above 70 and if they have they bitch arround because of it..... So the argument that Peer 2 Peer is a MUST HAVE because only with peer2peer you can have extremly low ping is just Bullshit because all major FPS games are running Server Based and they are doing very very well.

ps.: for the guy above me: pls ....oh my god....i mean......hmmmm

 

My Warcraft DOta Server runs at 50ms that means ever 50ms ever yplayer in the game get's to know where every other player is and what he does, do you even know how fast 50ms is? its like 0.050 sec. the process of seeing something with your eyes reacting to it in your brain and sending the command to your fingers need about 230 up to 270 ms for a human.......

 

DUDE if Server based multyplayer would make you stand 15 feet away and still hit your enemy then it would make you in counterstrike NOT see the enemy (because he's 15 behind the courner you are camping) and still hit him? stupid?

 

blizzard ladder and world in conflict.

 

I do think this game would be much more sucessful if the netcode was like world in conflict and when you hosted a game you where only setting the settings and then it got hosted on stardocks server.  But it's too late for that.  If I'm not mistaken, it'd pretty much mean rewriting all the network code..

Are you even reading what I say? Or just seeing I don't agree with you and retorting the same not very well formulated argument again and again.

If FPS players required the fastest possible connections ever, they'd run on P2P systems as well. It's much quicker provided everyone has a readily avalible network. Of course it's not very accessible and as I said it's not as required for FPS players. People skipping around is not low ping, it's missing packets. That's caused by bad down/up speeds from the user or server. While yes, a ping of 150+ is unplayable, anything below 70 is negligable because at that point it's 100% skill. Who sees who first and who fires the best. Sure it's nicer if you have an immediate connection but if not, no biggie.

But when it's melee heavy, you do not want to be killed from miles away just because you looked much closer on Mr. laggy's screen. Do you understand that? CS is not melee heavy. Demigod is. Considering how often meleeing happens in TF2, it's easy to see how bad it can be via server vs. P2P.

EDIT: In light of your recent edit, let me do one of my own.

No. Every 50ms, you get a ping from You > Server > You . When you're seeing someone Them > Server > You, but they see it as You > Server > Them. So that's pretty much Your ping + their ping + all the processing done. It's far more noticable then plain and simple You > Them.