Deep Freeze/Mass Charm bug still exists

from Demigod Forums

As posted in beta:

Besides this whole thing: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/343246 about the balance, and the whole mechanics of shatter which is a part of Deep Freeze, Deep Freeze has another problem:  It's bugged.

 

What Deep Freeze is actually doing is WHILE IT'S ACTIVE it increases the cooldowns.
But even the quickest cooldown skills, it increases their duration longer than Deep Freeze is active. 

What Deep Freeze is ACTUALLY doing is making all CURRENTLY RECHARGING skills be unusable for 7 seconds.

Affects = { Cooldown = {Mult = 2.2}, }
It's multiplying the cooldown while the debuff is active.  When DF ends, it's not longer multiplying it.   This functionality is completely bad.
If it where to remain this way, the skill description would actually read "For 7 seconds, all recharging skills cannot be used until the 7 seconds is up." And that's basically.. what it does at DF level 2.  DF doesn't gain any at level 3 or 4 because it's already increases cooldowns way longer than 7 seconds, even if you catch them at the last second.

 

Example..:
For people who haven't experienced it..  Imagine this scenerio:

  • You cast a spell with a 10 second recharge.
  • When it has 1 second left before it's recharged, you get deep freezed.
  • It's cooldown now changes to 17 seconds(26 seconds, minus 9.
  • Once the cooldown is down to 10 seconds left, it is usable, as deep freeze has ended so the cooldown is now -6, basically.

Even if the skill description did say "For 7 seconds, all recharging skills cannot be used until the 7 seconds is up.", that's a blehhhh skill.  It's a bug in the skills functionality, not the description.
And keep in mind, if someone casts while deep freeze is active, it's NOT increasing their cooldown, since the cooldown resets for those once deep freeze ends.

The Fix:
Deep freeze needs to ONLY effect skills that are cast while the debuff is active, and increase the duration of those.  It should not effect currently recharging skills.  When a skill is cast while deep freeze is active(or, if a skill is interrupted by it) it should increase it's cooldown until that increased cooldown ends.

And while at it.. It should increase a set number of seconds, not a percentage.  Like 1.5/3/4.5/6 seconds or 2/4/6/8 seconds.
The % increase is too insane on the higher cooldown skills.

 

Erebus' Mass Charm (AoE stun) has a simular thing.
100% increase for 7 seconds.

 That description is so confusing in the same way. Basically what it's doing it making already recharging skills not recharge for at least 7 seconds.  Which I think is.. rather dumb. :/

Why not something like "Enemy skills which are recharging take an additional 6 seconds longer to recharge.  For each skill effected this way, that enemy loses 250 health and you gain 250 health"  With of course fixing the bug that makes the additional recharge only happen when the debuff is on them.  That's 1k damage, 1k life gained if you hit it on someone that just dumped all their skills.  And it's AoE.  But it's very conditional.

Or:  "Enemy skills which are recharging take an additional 6 seconds longer to recharge.  For each skill effected this one, one of your skills recharges instantly, except for this one." But that wouldn't be as useful on Erebus, since his skills mostly recharge really fast.

demigod
92,136 views 27 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

>When it has 1 second left before it's recharged, you get deep freezed.
>It's cooldown now changes to 17 seconds(26 seconds, minus 9.

 

I lost you on the 26 minus 9. You know, I'm pretty good in math actualy, but this is a mistery to me.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I may have exprienced this a few times, I was fighting against a TB several times today and kept having my cooldowns extended to silly numbers, but I figured it was some sort of trinket being activated.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Somaz, reply 1
>When it has 1 second left before it's recharged, you get deep freezed.
>It's cooldown now changes to 17 seconds(26 seconds, minus 9.

 

I lost you on the 26 minus 9. You know, I'm pretty good in math actualy, but this is a mistery to me.

..  thanks for bumping the thread i  guess.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

k thx bye!!!!

 

 

 

 

jk, ive noticed this with mass charm too  =)

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

to have deep freeze only effect skills after they are cast would completely nullify the ability. There's not a whole hell of a lot a frost mage can do to you, those -cooldowns are essential for getting kills. just change the description to "silenced for 7 seconds" and be done with it.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Frost Bearer is weak enough as it is at the moment. There's rarely any reason to use spend points on them while Fire is so good. Leave him be.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Actually the current bugged effect of Deep Freeze is weaker than its intended effect I think.  It's not even silenced for 7 seconds.  It's, for 7 seconds, abilities on cooldown are silenced.

The way it seems like it's supposed to work is that 1) it only affects abilities used during those 7 seconds, but any abilities used will get the massive cooldown, and keep that massive cooldown when the debuff wears off.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting VyperXXX, reply 6
to have deep freeze only effect skills after they are cast would completely nullify the ability. There's not a whole hell of a lot a frost mage can do to you, those -cooldowns are essential for getting kills. just change the description to "silenced for 7 seconds" and be done with it.

Wow.. really?  No it'd say "Don't cast spells with this active or you're fucked"  It'd be like silence, but you can actual cast, just won't be ale to use skills again for a much longer time.

It's much more in depth than justa silence.

How is making a 7 second skill take 15 seconds to recharge instead not good?

 

Actually the current bugged effect of Deep Freeze is weaker than its intended effect I think.  It's not even silenced for 7 seconds.  It's, for 7 seconds, abilities on cooldown are silenced.

Correct.  Actually is some ways it makes the skill more powerful, and in some ways weaker.  Either way, it works very badly.

How it works now, is if you casted a 7 sec recharge skill 10 seconds ago, when deep freeze debuff comes on it will suddenly have a 5 second cooldown. (7*2.2=5.4).  Oddly, it seems it keeps track of when you used these skills, so you can suddenly have skills on recharge which have already finished recharging, not ones with just 1 second left.  Which.. makes it even more buggy.

So okay, 5 second cooldown on that. 

Now say I JUST casted a 20 second recharge skill, and i'm deep freezed, there is absolutely no effect.  That cooldown goes up to 44 seconds, but once deep freeze ends 7 seconds later it has 13 seconds left.

 

The way it SHOULD work is if you are interupted, that skill takes 6 seconds longer to recharge.  And say while that deep freeze debuff is on, even if you use a 7 second ability at the very last second deep freeze is still debuffing you, that skill gets a 15 second recharge which is stuck as that when deep freeze ends.  In that 20 second skill would be 26, not resetting back to 20 when deep freeze ends.

 

Right now deep freeze is a 7 second silence that doesn't work right.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

This is what I always wondered. If Deep Freeze is supposed to increase cooldowns, but it says the effect only last 7 seconds, doesn't that mean abilities with a cooldown of 7 seconds or more aren't really effected?

So in it's currently state it's only reliable for it's Interupt/Shatter mechanic?

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Deep Freeze is pretty screwed up as it is.  A fix or modification to what it does is in order I think.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

frost tb is pretty shit yes deep freeze is the highest quick dmg skill  i believe it does a max of 1500 if u get all the other  debuff skils  then deepfreeze will fuck u over

so what if it fuckes up your skills for 7 secs  insrtead off the 28 sec on some skills

 

if it did for the full time then it would  screw up all abilitiy builds that would leave the dps builds  and with the major minus in attack speed that fucks them too

hmm that make frost tb  the strongest demi in the game so u want to fix his cooldown  makinging him stronger sounds like a great idea

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Hrm. Last I checked, Deep Freeze/Muddle does not work as previously described. Instead, if you used an ability within that period of time, it's CD will go up, even if it had already finished. Example: you use an ability, and one second after the CD finishes, you get hit with Deep Freeze. The cooldown goes up, and you still can't use the ability.
It's not based on the current time left on CD, but the total. (You cast somehing with a 7 second CD, 8 seconds after casting you get hit with a 100% Deep Freeze, CD goes to 14 seconds and locks out the skill again.)

If you haven't used a skill recently though, the CD doesn't go up enough to lock it out.

 

:fox:

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

hmm that make frost tb  the strongest demi in the game so u want to fix his cooldown  makinging him stronger sounds like a great idea

 

I just want Deep Freeze to make sense. Something simple like..

 

Interupts abilities and stopes cooldown timers for 7 seconds.

 

Meaning if you get interupted or cast a spell while affected by Deep Freeze, your cooldown timers won't tick down during that time. Something that effects all abilities equally at all levels. Increasing targets cooldowns by 220% for 7 seconds doesn't make any sense when that could be much longer than 7 seconds. Plus doubling the cooldown of some abilities would be crippling for some builds.

It's not based on the current time left on CD, but the total. (7 second CD, 8 seconds after casting you get hit with a 100% Deep Freeze, CD goes to 14 seconds and locks out the skill again.

 

I haven't played against many  TBs and been Deep Freeze[d] enough to really know how this works. I'm always the one using it so I can say for sure :D

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

I don't see an issue. Deep Freeze someone who used an ability recently and they cant use it for 7 seconds (most of the time). That's kind of the whole point of Deep Freeze is it not?

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

Yeah but what skill has less than a 7 sec cool down as it is?...I think I'm just confusing myself more. :S

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

What does it matter what the abities cooldown is? It seems to me it's doing exactly what it says its supposed to do.

Reply #18 from Demigod Forums Top

I think it's doing what it was designed to do by the devs, but that some people are expecting it to work differently cuz of the wording of its description. I initially expected it to increase enemy cooldowns by that % and keep them there, but then i realized that the cooldowns go back to normal when the effect wears off.

It's basically just there to screw up someone who was relying on their ability to recharge during the fight, but then they suddenly have to wait another 7 seconds which is forevvveeerrrr.

By the way, its not the same as silencing. Silencing would prevent people from casting at all. Whereas deep freeze just prevents recasting the same abilities quickly.

Reply #19 from Demigod Forums Top

I think it's doing what it was designed to do by the devs, but that some people are expecting it to work differently cuz of the wording of its description. I initially expected it to increase enemy cooldowns by that % and keep them there, but then i realized that the cooldowns go back to normal when the effect wears off.

But what I'm saying is that most abilties have a 7 sec cooldown or more as it is. If it goes back to normal after 7 seconds, what did it do?

It's multiplying the cooldown while the debuff is active.  When DF ends, it's not longer multiplying it.   This functionality is completely bad.
If it where to remain this way, the skill description would actually read "For 7 seconds, all recharging skills cannot be used until the 7 seconds is up." And that's basically.. what it does at DF level 2.  DF doesn't gain any at level 3 or 4 because it's already increases cooldowns way longer than 7 seconds, even if you catch them at the last second.

The OP just confused me. So what is actually happening? Do ablilities that are interupted or cast while under Deep Freeze take longer to cool down or not?

Reply #20 from Demigod Forums Top

If it goes back to normal after 7 seconds, what did it do?
It increased cooldown time for seven seconds. If the new CD time hasn't finished by then, it goes back to normal.

Do ablilities that are interupted or cast while under Deep Freeze take longer to cool down or not?
Abilities that are cast before Deep Freeze, not after.
(You cast somehing with a 7 second CD, 8 seconds after casting you get hit with a 100% Deep Freeze, CD goes to 14 seconds and locks out the skill again.)

 

:fox:

Reply #21 from Demigod Forums Top

(You cast somehing with a 7 second CD, 8 seconds after casting you get hit with a 100% Deep Freeze, CD goes to 14 seconds and locks out the skill again.)

 

Ah ok. So the trick is you cast Deep freeze when the cool down is about up or ended recently. So for example...bare with me...

Lets say I cast Rain of Ice(14 sec. cool down). At about the 14-15 second mark I get hit with a Deep Freeze IV. It is then reset to a 30 second but since 14 seconds already passed it's actually at about 15-16 seconds left. But it doesn't really matter at that point because Deep Freeze only lasts 7 seconds.

But if was hit by a Deep Freeze I it would only increase that same cool down to about 18 seconds and last for 5 seconds. Since 14 seconds already passed in then has about 3 seconds left. So you only increased the cooldown by 3 seconds verses 7 via Deep Freeze IV.

SO, the whole point of this (Increase cool down time by 130%-220% for 5-7 seconds) mechanic is just a way to keep abilities with a long base cool down time from being hit too hard. Meaning the effect of the Deep freeze debuff scales down the longer the base cool down timer is. Correct?

Abilities that are cast before Deep Freeze, not after.

So if I Interupted a 7 second cool down (or more) abilitiy with Deep Freeze, it's cool down would not be increase. In that way, Deep Freeze is used as an Interupt/Shatter or Cooldown-debuff/Shatter since you need to cast it near the end or after the cool down is finished to actually increase the cool down.

 

 

 

 

Reply #22 from Demigod Forums Top

Good example of use is against a QoT, seeing as shield is .1 second cast and nearly impossible to interrupt. Watch her shield. wait 6 seconds and DF her. Gives you 7 seconds more to kill her.

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top

interrupts.

deals shatter damage.

locks down recently used abilities for 7 seconds.

 

this is working as intended, as far as i ever understood the intent of the skill to be. 

 

very high utility against Bramble Shield and Heal in particular. also hampers fast cooldown nukes alot so Pounce, Bite, Penitence, Fireball are very likely to get locked out for 7 seconds. 

Reply #25 from Demigod Forums Top

Lets say I cast Rain of Ice(14 sec. cool down). At about the 14-15 second mark I get hit with a Deep Freeze IV. It is then reset to a 30 second but since 14 seconds already passed it's actually at about 15-16 seconds left. But it doesn't really matter at that point because Deep Freeze only lasts 7 seconds.

But if was hit by a Deep Freeze I it would only increase that same cool down to about 18 seconds and last for 5 seconds. Since 14 seconds already passed in then has about 3 seconds left. So you only increased the cooldown by 3 seconds verses 7 via Deep Freeze IV.

SO, the whole point of this (Increase cool down time by 130%-220% for 5-7 seconds) mechanic is just a way to keep abilities with a long base cool down time from being hit too hard. Meaning the effect of the Deep freeze debuff scales down the longer the base cool down timer is. Correct?

Exactly.

So if I Interupted a 7 second cool down (or more) abilitiy with Deep Freeze, it's cool down would not be increase.
It would, but you're still pretty much right as the effect would wear off on all but the the lowest CD skills with -CD flags/skills/items.

 

:fox: