The Marza doesn't need nerfed!!!

Know why because...

THE TEC SUCK AT NEARLY EVERY FORM OF COMBAT!

There I said it, and it's true. All we REALLY Have are Marza's, Kodiak's and Hoshiko's.  Other than that, we essentially get pwnd in all aspects of combat... the TEC's power is essentially concentrated in these units, with others there just to soak damage and kill of a few enemy ships.

Koda0 (^)

...if your Cielos are there to soak up damage, you're doing it wrong.

Those units also cost less fleet supply and less money/credits.  They are weaker but as TEC you are supposed to have more of them.  TEC was intended to have a kick-ass economy able to spam out swarms of units, unlike, say, Vasari.  A whole bunch of Kodiaks backed up with Hoshikos and some carriers with fighters (for anti-bomber) and some flaks can be a formidable force.

I agree with the calls to nerf the Marza's Missile Barrage.  Perhaps it should only affect a certain number of ships but be allowed to preferentially (and automatically) choose its targets based on some sort of order (LRMs first, then LFs, etc.).  I also like the idea of making the missile barrage more visible on the game screen.

Ok, this arguement finally won me over, nerf the marza...dammnit i said it, and I'm a dedicated TEC player.

Howeever, if you nerf the marza:

A: up the akkans firepower (base)

B: Revamp Kol

C: Extend Dunov's level 6 ability

D: Reduce AM cost on sova's lvl 6

The Akkan doesn't really need base firepower upped - it's fairly reasonable if you get both broadsides working.

What it needs is a less-completely-useless Colonise special (Even 1/2/4 would be an improvement over the current 0/1/2 extractors), and a slightly less situational Targeting Uplink - my own tweakings suggest a +5/10/15% damage to go with the accuracy and range make a very solid buff.

As for the others... Eh. Kol, in my opinion, would stand to be shifted in role to an AoE specialist (Gods know the TEC needs one), turning the Marza into a single-target nutcracker, with Missile Barrage being an AoE weapon mostly to demolish hordes of structures or light units.

But then, I also realise these changes are way too much for vanilla... I'll just mod it all instead.

you joking? the death egg cant sit there and destroy thousands of credits the push of a button. and by thousands i mean literally 10s of thousands for the actual ships not to mention the other 10s of thousands for the research. the progen cant even compare tot he death egg not the mention the marza. your argument is incredibly flawed and biased. ask anyone here and they will tell you ALONE that the death egg is NO THREAT to a massive fleet. the progen alone is NO THREAT to a massive fleet. the marza IS a threat to a massive fleet simply because the mb ability will wipe out ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in its surrounding area with the push of a button.

defensive options dont do shit if the enemy is already dead...you are simply another marzabater who feels it isnt overpowered and that its just dandy... but how about all you TEC people ask yourselves this question...

before everyone used the akkan..what makes the marza so special that nearly 90 percent of all TEC players now use this as their main capital ship? if its not the "gamebreaker" everyone else thinks it is why not add in some other caps? surely you shouldnt need 3 MARZAS running around.

all marzabaters are incredibly hypocritcal about their stance on this argument. if you are going to marzabate then come and tell us it isnt overpowered even though youve never played a game without one just refrain from posting. its a waste of time for people to tell us that from a biased point of view..

thats like coming to me saying oh i love this author so and so. it really doesnt matter if you do or not because youve never read his books... talking about his work is just flat out stupid. so are your marzabating arguments. how about you try a different race and see how fun it is to counter a free marza with oh..... maybe another 3000 400 250 res amt counter or perhaps maybe the thousands it will cost for you to tank it?

if you are going to argue atleast immerse yourself in both sides of the argument before speaking.

Nerf the Marza??? Are you nuts? I love that ship better than the Kol!

the "Destroy a fleet with the push of a button view" isnt exreme nor is it a stance. its a reality.

I agree with Ascension... half the fun is playing Vasari or Advent and thinking of new ways to combat the Marza...

Stop whining that you can't win. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the gravity well and go play the Sims!!!

I'm gonna come here to brag and vent.

First the vent:

BUNCH OF NOOBS CAN'T COME WITH ONE SHIP GO READ WHAT I WROTE AND DO IT.

Then the brag.

HAHA! I TOLD YOU SO. BUT YET PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN. LISTEN AND HAVE A BETTER TIME.

I feel better! Don't you?

This made me laugh. The guy was spamming LRF's and then cries when the marza mops up his fleet. A DUH!!!  Illums are not going to kill a Marza. That's pretty obvious.

Whether the Marza is OP or not I'm not going to debate, but trying to make a point with this situation is epic epic failure.

Gets better

Last I checked, that is a nerf. Reading comprehension FTW.

Take time to read the 4 first page until I say I'm done here. I quoted my self and IC for a reason. Witch elads me to belive your like those people. Don't read or pretend to understand.

Lol EadTaes you're like that kid in your avatar picture, you'd better hope daddy isn't reading or he'd spank you silly and tell you to grow up

The pic is really what did it. Yeah, you came up with a suggestion that IC ended up using (approximately; the exact numbers were not the same it should be noted)... but, y'know, there was massive feedback from folks other than you about the graphic thing, and the reduced DPS, keep-the-total is a pretty simple 'softly, softly' solution anyway.

While I favor the idea of the weapon having an actual directional component (Be that an arc or a circle AoE range), as minimalist changes go, it's pretty straightforward.

Let's see, apporx the new nerf gives about 4 more sec to react, which really does not make that much difference.

But the thanks god, they got it right about visual nerf.

5 x 1.25 = 6.25

Not to mention that mitigation will have a bigger incidence on MB.

I've had multiple players quit on me instantly after I have MB'd their fleet.

I've found myself forced to completely avoid a fleet with a lvl 6 Marza in it even though otherwise my fleet would have been a match for theirs. No other single capital ship can do that in Sins. The burden to counter a Missile Barrage is just too big. No single ship should ever have the potential of wiping out entire fleets. MB is much worse than the old CB+Malice that required two high level capitals working together.

I don't think the "nerf" of slowing MB down by a few seconds is going to change it enough.

Missile Barrage should be a targeted AoE like Meteor Storm. Even if the radius was small and could "only" hit 10-20 ships at a time it would still be very powerful.

A Vasari carrier can mitigate alot of the damage caused by an MB so that frigates will not be lost during the barrage.  The ai does it all the time.  If the mb doesn't actually destroy any ships, the marza will have been sitting still and taking a pounding for a long time.  You can replace frigates a lot easier than having to re experience a cap ship to level 6.

I had tried to hard to explain it to them but it always flies over their heads. So I don'T bother. Neider should you. Your wasting your time.

And better than the Skirantra, the Progen can also tank MB with Shield Restore. That's not the point.

The point is that no other lvl 6 cap ability comes close to competing with the power of a Missile Barrage. It is about the burden of countering a single ability and keeping that counter alive and ready. No other lvl 6 ability in Sins makes you unable to engage a fleet if you do not have an exact counter.

that's so LOL

i DO agree though,  the marza,  no matter what people might say about whiners,   IS imbalanced,  

perfect example,  i NEED to have atleast 1 capital ship-stunner ability ready for casting if there's a level 6 marza in the fleet

there's no other ship in soase that requires me to have this specific counter, if i dont ALL my ships will take heavy damage,  and i'll lose 99% of my LRF's (1% has a lucky repair or is out-of range >.>)

marza level 6 = definatly my priority in combat,   i wont madly attack it,  instead i'll madly send my stunner ship up close and madly wait for the mad missle m.. m...  barrage...   and react by stunning it....  mad...

i'm happy with  the new fixes coming in 1.03,   they'll increase the time i have 2 stun it (which is exactly what we need(though 30 waves would've been preferred.. :P))   missle barrage on itself is not the problem, it's a fine ability, 

it's the fact that zooming out 2 que up some reinforcement ships on the planet nextdoor can cost you the battle becuase you notice the MB swarm 2 late,  really do hope this'll do the trick.... (+5 waves seems rather tiny)

Its hilarious how much this is like a Warcraft 3 Starfall topic. Its pretty obvious the designers are huge War3 fans (or gamers in general).

I think one problem with SoaSE compared to War3 is that its not as easy to instantly identify units, ships and abilities. Its pretty obvious when there is a level 6 PotM nearby. I remember hating Starfall for quite a while, but eventually I got used to the fact that Night Elf = Starfall, so have an interrupt to counter. Its pretty darn satisfying to cast Sleep on a PotM almost as soon as she casts it. The thing is, no matter how insane the ability is, its not that bad if it has a counter. One RTS ability I have never been able to agree with is Psi Storm in Starcraft. There is an ability that does not have a counter. There is no unit that I can build that will avoid the damage, there is no way to prevent it from being cast. The best thing you can do is try to avoid it, and try not to lose too many units to it.

I only recently had a level 6 Marza, and thought it said that it would do 150 damage once to its AoE. Never got a chance to use it. I think I have a way to go before being able to comment on this properly, as I have only played 5 and a half maps so far. But in the end it kind of comes down to what the designers want. They must be aware that the ability can do what it does, they came up with the idea. There are lots of ways to tone it down:

• It could shoot a single (or 2 or 3 or 4...) missile per second at a random inrange target, instead of a potentially unlimited number of them.
• It could deal a % (1, 2, ...) of max HP damage, instead of an absolute amount. This would prevent it from anihilating smaller ships.
• It could have its cost significantly increased, say reducing shields to zero, or antimatter and shields.
• It could also be a non-IFF ability, IE one that does not descriminate between friend or foe, damaging everything in its range including allies, or even just enemies and itself.

While I'm not yet in a position to decide whether I think it is overpowered or not, I am very curious to see what would happen if someone tried to spam the Marza, The fact that any TEC player can have up to 16 of these is pretty scary.