Noob seeks general strategy

What works and what doesn't?

from Sins Forums

The title says it all, but I'd like to begin with a disclaimer: I have some idea what I'm doing.  I'm a veteran of Supreme Commander, so I'm familiar with the idea of keeping up the flow of units whilst scouting and expanding your territory to acquire Moar Resources.  I'm also familiar with the idea that, in general, static defenses are wasteful because the enemy can: 1). Go around them, and 2). They can't go elsewhere.  There are always exceptions, of course: pirate raids, for example, or choke points, or areas that the enemy can't otherwise go around.  To be honest, I prefer repair bays over most static defenses because they can actually allow a planet to serve as a staging area, and they can allow your fleet to defend the planet more easily.

Generally, I play as the TEC, because it's straightforward, but I'm fairly certain I don't play it well.  I loathe the Advent (they seem like easy mode to me), and I'm eyeing the Vasari, wondering if I can do anything with them (I read a post recently about nine Antorak Marauders > nine Marza Dreadnoughts, and it intrigued me).

I'll begin with what I think I know (TEC):

1). Hoshikos + well-armored units = win

2). Get trade ports ASAP to roll in the money

3). Make sure you create "fleets" so that your Hoshis and missile ships stay together.

4). Missile frigates die quickly

5). Deploy Dunovs in pairs, if possible.

6). Begin with an Akkan Battlecruiser to colonize on multiple fronts (Moar colonies = Moar cash)

7). Use Flak Burst against lots of fighters; Flak Burst is generally > Gauss Rail Gun.

 

...that's about the size of it.  Some of it is probably wrong, though.  Now, I'd like to pose a series of questions for you.

A). What is the general build order for starters?  What structures and ships should I get first?  Should I go for the old, "Get first capital ship, sell factory?" approach? What is a good capital ship to start with for TEC and Vasari?

B). What should TEC players emphasize in research and deployment?  Moar Hoshis?  Moar missile frigates?  Moar Kodiaks? Should TEC focus on civilian or military research, and if so, what should that research be (what works, in other words, and what is a waste of resources).

C). Same goes for Vasari: what should they emphasize?  Should they go for more military research, or civilian research, and if so, what?

D). TEC Economics: what is most important?  Trade stations?  Orbital refineries?  Moar colonies + Population increase research?  Increased income rate on mining facilities?

E). Vasari Economics: what should I go for? I have no idea where to start.

There we go.  Any suggestions?

EDIT: We've got some fantastic suggestions thus far (thank you very much, Kruppe), but the following questions are still unanswered:

1). Vasari power units (and by this I mean, units that play a pivotal role in strategic play):
-ANSWER: Jarrasul Evacuator, or Flying Space Egg
-ANSWER: The Antorak Marauder is lame until level 6, unless you really like running and disabling key vessels
-ANSWER: The Skirantra Carrier has a very nice stackable AoE heal -- use in pairs (like the Dunov!)
-ANSWER: The Desolator can flatten a planet faster than anything.
2). TEC power units (besides the Marza)
3). Intermediate Vasari economic steps
4). Intermediate TEC economic stepping stones -- the important ones
5). Important Vasari military technologies besides the aforementioned phase gates and the phase missiles?
-ANSWER: In Entrenchment, The Kostura will be King :P
6). Is the Kortul Devastator any good?
-ANSWER: As a tank?  Not as good as the Kol, but it can really kick out the DPS with Power Surge

strategy
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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

A/

the following takes place in the first 5sec->

 

build capship factory

sell 100 metal

upgeade planetary infrastruckture

build a crystal exstrator

build 2 metal exstrators

que your capship of choice

----

for tec concidder a marza as first cap, the tec colonizer cap is poo

for advent The Space Egg

----

when built you *can* choose to sell your capship factory (i don't)

 

Ab/

for reshearch, most go for the first suport ship then go civillian to get the econ up, but is map dependent( say there is 2000jumps to the enemy .. gogo econ)

in general, tec is armor first prio in millitary - in civilian it is production bonuses

 

for vasari -- millitary -> Phaaaze missiles -- civillian -> RA (returning armada) is all that matters until it's up and running

 

 

hope it helps a little

 

Edit:

 

ofc allways get tradeports and refineries up before going for industrial jugganaught(tec or RA(vasari)

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

What you just told me helps a great deal!  I had no idea that you should sell 100 metal first.

I understand the principle of using Marza as your first ship: 1). Bombardment capability; 2). DPS. 

But why would that be better than, say, a Kol Battleship, which can tank and knock things out of the sky (but doesn't have quite the Marza's DPS).

...and what the heck is the space egg?  And what should Vasari go with first (and for what reasons)?

If I understand you correctly (map dependencies aside)...

TEC Military: Armor bonuses
TEC Civilian: Production bonuses (I presume that here you mean +5%/10% additional metal/crystal)

Vasari Military: Phase Missiles
Vasari Civilian: Production bonus + Returning Armada

In both cases, make sure you get trade ports and refineries before going end-tier; also focus on "first caster" ships

Is there anything else that's mission critical for the Vasari?  If not, thanks for all your help!

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

But why would that be better than, say, a Kol Battleship, which can tank and knock things out of the sky (but doesn't have quite the Marza's DPS).

you get missile barage quicker

the kol's flak burst is not a lvl 6 abillity, but ay a kol first would work aswell

 

...and what the heck is the space egg? And what should Vasari go with first (and for what reasons)?

 

The Almighty Space Egg, is the vasari colonizer capship-> evacuator - it looks like a big egg(commenly used name for it)

 

TEC Civilian: Production bonuses (I presume that here you mean +5%/10% additional metal/crystal)

though you should get them aswell, no i mean industrial juganaught and pervasive economy

that will let you pump out ships at an insane level

 

Is there anything else that's mission critical for the Vasari? If not, thanks for all your help!

 

well on the way to get RA you pick up phaze stabilizors GET THEM UP AT ALL WORLDS(chokepointsand border worlds first ofc) any vasari ship can jump from 1 PS to another -> jumping 15jumps inone go = cheating alien scum

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2

...and what the heck is the space egg?  And what should Vasari go with first (and for what reasons)?!

The almighty Space Egg, a.k.a. Jarrasul Evacuator. It will crush any other cap in 1v1 combat, disable the phase drives of its retreating friends and eat their planet at the same time it gives you 17 resources per second. Its the ship God would command if he had to. This should be your first cap as Vas.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Try selling 200 metal and buyin 200 crystal right away. Vas should have lots of LRMs. Each 5% of phase missile phasing is like an 8% damage increase. This means Vas LRMS > All.

 

this is only for vasari, and it is debated wether 100 or 200 is best

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

The Almighty Space Egg, is the vasari colonizer capship-> evacuator - it looks like a big egg(commenly used name for it)

That's what I thought you meant -- but you put "Advent" before it :P

Yeah, the Jarrasul Evacuator- I mean, Almighty Space Egg- has some ridiculously good abilities.

Is there any other Vasari ship of import?  The Kortul Devastator, for example?

Though you should get them aswell, no i mean industrial juganaught and pervasive economy

that will let you pump out ships at an insane level

My original question was dedicated more to mid-game stuff: important things to pick up along the way.  Speaking of which...

well on the way to get RA you pick up phaze stabilizors GET THEM UP AT ALL WORLDS(chokepointsand border worlds first ofc) any vasari ship can jump from 1 PS to another -> jumping 15jumps inone go = cheating alien scum

This is one of the reasons why I think the Vasari have the potential to be overwhelming.  Combine them with an Antorak Marauder and you can funnel in reinforcements directly to a battlefront.  Godlike.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Frostflare, reply 6

The Almighty Space Egg, is the vasari colonizer capship-> evacuator - it looks like a big egg(commenly used name for it)
That's what I thought you meant -- but you put "Advent" before it

Yeah, the Jarrasul Evacuator- I mean, Almighty Space Egg- has some ridiculously good abilities.

Is there any other Vasari ship of import?  The Kortul Devastator, for example?
Their carrier caps can spam an AoE heal that stacks with Reintegration and repair bays. 20/25/30 hull/sec for 100/90/80 antimatter. Get two and have one spam till its out of antimatter, then get the other to spam while the other recharges. The Devastator is a good tank, but the Kol is better at soaking up the hurt. Level 3 Power Surge can deal huge DPS though. If you need a planet dead ASAP get a Desolator. They do more planet damage than anything. And finally, the Marauder. Its pretty lame until level 6 when it gets the ability to open a phase gate at whatever grav well its in. Its a channeling ability though, so if your Marauder moves or does anything while the gate is open it will shut.



well on the way to get RA you pick up phaze stabilizors GET THEM UP AT ALL WORLDS(chokepointsand border worlds first ofc) any vasari ship can jump from 1 PS to another -> jumping 15jumps inone go = cheating alien scum
This is one of the reasons why I think the Vasari have the potential to be overwhelming.  Combine them with an Antorak Marauder and you can funnel in reinforcements directly to a battlefront.  Godlike.
It gets better in Entrenchment. The Kostura cannon not only shuts down buildings for 3 minutes and units for 15 seconds, but in Entrenchment it OPENS A PHASE GATE ON THE PLANET. So I can hit your fartherst back, most undefended core worlds and jump in and eat them with my egg.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks for the input, guys -- keep 'em coming!  There are still unanswered questions here.