Impulse does a file compare of what you have on your system and what has been updated and only updates what needs to be done.  It isn't a patcher in the traditional sense.  If you want to preserve older versions you can't download an old patch, you would need to archive teh last known good game directory then update.

Which is to say that they don't care about money, because in terms of profit it doesn't matter who buys their games.



It is an indisputable fact that the game is crippled. Patching is rendered impossible, as is multiplayer (and expansions, I would image).

Just yours.  :)I dispute it.  So there. 

 

eh i was sleepy - i ment for off-line patching - sometimes im simply not plugged into the net b/c hurricanes like to take out cable for a few days

I repeat, in terms of profit it does not matter who buys the game. It is also amusing how you're trying to make me the bad guy here, as if I had done something wrong by being conned by Stardock & co and then complaining about it here.


You are saying that the game can be updated, played online and expanded even when you don't have a serial key attached to your account?

I would say that it is playable as designed off the CD.  I would say it is not crippled.

Also, in terms of profit . . they made none from you.

And I would say that you're either lying or delusional. Again, the game cannot be updated, upgraded or played online. It is crippled.

 

That's not what this is about. Don't try to change the subject.

So move out of hypothetical in to the real world - What country do you live in? Let us check if in your country ignorance of the law is a valid legal defense (this is the second time I am asking this question).

Crippling? Here's some examples for you:

If you used some other famous DRM protection scheme for some other famous game (which I shall not mention here), you can't even play single player if you do not have an Internet connection, let alone play online/update.

Microsoft is crippling Windows even if you have a licensed copy. For example, there are some KBs and updates (for example related to VSS) that can only be obtained via MS technical services (not even MSDN). And to be on there, you must subscribe to one of the major Microsoft multi-year contracts.

Let's go over to those forums and complain loudly for 13+ pages. I think they are all "lying or delusional".

 

 

The bottom line is (which I have said before) - This is SD/IC policy. They have the right to use this scheme to protect/help customers. It could be a worse scheme - a much worse scheme. You don't like the policy, either move on elsewhere, or use more effective means to petition your cause. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

 

In the past, when I accused you of changing the topic, you objected greatly and replied in post #222 on page 9 and #238 on page 10. So now, I quote yourself back to you - you are just arbitrarily trying to limit the discussion. Stop trying to dictate the terms of the discussion.

Furthermore, in those posts, you posit that this issue (restricting the right to sell second hand copies of SOASE) is about StarDock's greed. Clearly, whether SD made a profit or not from a sale is directly related to whether or not SD is greedy. So your argument that this is not what it is about is clearly illogical.

Epiclulz your effort is futile. You are trying to teach people how to think critically. They are incapable to do so because they were indoctrinated to be passive sheep since they were born. These are the results of education in corporatocratic political systems.

Go read some Karl Popper people. You might wake up from matrix.

DRM only punishes the honest user who has to put up with all the hassle of dealing with DRM. Pirates break the DRM and don't have the hassles anymore.

I just bought this game today, had I known DRM was involved I would have left it on the store shelves. Hey StarDock DRM hasn't worked for the music industry and isn't working for movies either, get the message? Try something else.

In my oppinion the game is just fine without updates.

Since you have a valid (ie not used copy) you have the ability to recieve support - you payed SD/IC for those rights.

epiclulz purchased a used copy and thus has not paid SD/IC for that support.

Purchasing a new copy entitles you to recieve updates - and those updates are needed to play online though ICO

A used copy does not give the purchaser those rights - this is all staed clearly in the EULA - legal or not, unless you hire a lawyer and use IC/SD unfortunatly you can't do anything about it.

Now that used copy is perfectly playable and does play online. I will not tel lyou how, but it is and does happen.

Having a valid CD key also gives you access to the full game to be downloaded at a moments notice and you dont need to have the physical media available.

Face it - the retail value of the software is to have a physical and tangable piece of plastic and paper.

How has Impulse directly, negatively affected you?

Oh my gosh... Epiclulz, first of all; get some knowledge of marketing laws, the supplier of a product has no obligations whatsoever against a second-hand customer, all those are towards the direct buyer of the product. (This applies not only to games, but to most other things as well. - I work in the PC component business, and have quite some knowledge of this, denying second-hand customers warranty of a product someone else bought. That is because the marketing laws in affect does not mention any rights whatsoever - I say this again, hoping it will come through - for a second-hand customer.)

And on top of that, read the god-darn EULA (if you're going to whine, you need to have some facts, and if you'd have read the EULA you'd see that you're wrong in many aspects you've mentioned).

And on top of the top, you can't possibly state that the game is defective without an account, as this is only required for patching. (Are all games considered defective unless the latest patch for them is installed, hm? That's just ridiculous...)
So once and for all, SoaSE does NOT contain any form of DRM, the patching system (which IS NOT an integral component of the game, since it's not essential to it's primary function - playing) however is another thing.

What does it matter whether or not it's a valid legal defense here?


Not the same thing. A used copy of SoaSE does not have the same functionality as a new copy, and that's why a used copy is crippled.


He was trying to change the subject and I caught him. I don't see what that has to do with arbitrarily limiting the discussion or trying to dictate the terms of the discussion.


Right now I think the only illogical thing here is this paragraph because I can't make any sense of it.


As we all know, law and ethics are the same thing.


Why?


I can quite easily state it since it's an indisputable fact that a used copy lacks functionality.


Does Stardock pay people to say shit like this?

Sins of a Solar Empire, the game, has no DRM. None. Zero. Zilch. 
It is patchable up to 1.05, and it works without major bugs. It's sufficiently well-balanced in that version, too. It's also playable over LAN and Hamachi/other LAN emulation networks.

However, access to the patches past 1.05 is restricted to people who have accounts with a registered copy. To have an account with a registered copy, you have to buy a new, unused copy of the game, and register it with Impulse. Then you may patch it, and play it online through the SD/IC service that they provide to their customers. You can even install it on your computer through Impulse, not needing the DVD any more. Ever again. Or the serial number, which is now tied to your Impulse account.

You know what else you can do once you register the game? You can put it back in the box, go back to your incredibly badly informed and mostly retarded game store and return it, claiming it doesn't work. The incredivly badly informed and mostly retarded game store will then sell it to someone else. At this point, that shop has actually broken a law. At least in the US. This is a point you keep contesting, but since you won't say what country you live in, you may shove that argument up your nostril.

Then you keep saying that this is retarded and that no other game functions like this... True, most other games have even more limiting second-hand sales mechanics. You ever try buying a used Bioshock? Yep, it won't even install. Tried calling EA for that? Nope, they won't give you more installs, as it's serial number is not tied to your EA Store account. You mentioned Crysis: Warhead. It's singleplayer component works without any registration required, however, Wars does not. Plus, both come with a nice little DRM combo that can actually physically harm your computer.

So, let's get back to the basics. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Why you should read the EULA?

BECAUSE YOU ACCEPT IT WHEN YOU INSTALL THE GAME? - you can't come complaining if you do not know the contents of it, or even less accept them. That IS the way it is, and you can't turn that around no matter how much you try.
And don't come here saying you shouldn't obey laws just because they don't fit with your ethical views.

For the record, I haven't recieved a dime from Stardock or IC, you see, I pay them for a damn good game, not the other way around. (The game IS DRM-free, why should I state otherwise?)

As for the patches, I wont even try to argue anymore (as is said; "don't try to argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience") about that, 'cause you're just simply wrong stating that an unpatched (or up to 1.05 - which you can use without registering) game is defective.

 

Edit: D'oh, The_Regicide made it before me

Geez. Go read the thread starting from post #248 on page 10.

epiclulz: "I wonder how many fucking times I've explained this already. Here it comes again: the store had no possible way of knowing about the game's DRM"

Jedmonds24: "Yes they would, if they legitimately do buisness they would have known. As a retailer is is thier job to know as much as they can about the product they are selling. It would be like a McDonalds not knowing that they used beef patties on thier hamburgers. Ignorance is NEVER an excuse. Get over it."

patkhoo: "Quite right. In the eyes of the law, ignorance of the law is not a valid defense. For example, saying you didn't know that it was illegal to pirate a copy of Sins is not a valid defense in court."

epiclulz: "Going by your logic, ignorance wouldn't be a valid defense if the government, without telling a soul, decided that wearing a blue t-shirt on January 6 2009 is against the law."

patkhoo: "Yes. Go ask a lawyer. "Oh, I'm sorry officer, you can't give me a ticket because I didn't know that the speed limit on this road is 30..." This is pretty much standard in every country around the world."

epiclulz: "This is all very irrelevant. I used a purely hypothetical example to demonstrate that ignorance can be an excuse. You're also not taking into account that I wasn't even specifically referring to any particular government (I'm sure North Korea could enact secret suprise laws if it wanted to)."

patkhoo: "I'm pretty sure that ignorance of the law is not a defense in your country - and that is not hypothetical."

epiclulz: "I don't live in North Korea, and it was my example that was hypothetical."

patkhoo: "So move out of hypothetical in to the real world - What country do you live in? Let us check if in your country ignorance of the law is a valid legal defense (this is the second time I am asking this question)."

epiclulz: "What does it matter whether or not it's a valid legal defense here?"

Answer: It goes to show that in your country, where you bought your second hand copy of SOASE from a "small local" shop, ignorance of the law, EULA, DRM/non-DRM/etc is not a valid reason as to accuse Stardock/Ironclad of unfair practices in a court of law.

So, for the third time - What country do you live in?

Wrong. A used copy of Sins has exactly the same functionality as a new copy - provided that both (used and new) have a valid Impulse and ICO account. Why can't you understand that? It has been stated on this thread countless times. And if the used copy of Sins you bought is incomplete (ie. missing the Impulse account) - well, as they say - caveat emptor and you should lodge a protest with whomever you bought it from for the missing parts, not the manufacturer.

Come on, go and re-read post #222 and #238. So you can redefine your "original post", call the OP (at the top of this page) irrelevant and that's OK, but Zubaz was "changing the subject" and he is not allowed to do so? You are still trying to arbitrarily limit and dictate the terms of the discussion. Come on, clearly there is double standards here.

epiclulz: "Which is to say that they don't care about money, because in terms of profit it doesn't matter who buys their games."

Zubaz: "Just yours."

epiclulz: "I repeat, in terms of profit it does not matter who buys the game. It is also amusing how you're trying to make me the bad guy here, as if I had done something wrong by being conned by Stardock & co and then complaining about it here."

Zubaz: "Also, in terms of profit . . they made none from you."

epiclulz: "That's not what this is about. Don't try to change the subject."

patkhoo: "In the past, when I accused you of changing the topic, you objected greatly and replied in post #222 on page 9 and #238 on page 10. So now, I quote yourself back to you - you are just arbitrarily trying to limit the discussion. Stop trying to dictate the terms of the discussion."

epiclulz: "He was trying to change the subject and I caught him. I don't see what that has to do with arbitrarily limiting the discussion or trying to dictate the terms of the discussion."

Geez, I think even if you had prior warning about Impulse or whatever, you probably wouldn't have made any sense of it either.

If you want to install and/or play the game, you must agree to the EULA. Otherwise, you will be in violation of contract law and quite possibly copyright law as well. I do agree that this is not always the same for every country, so (4th time asking this qn) What country are you in?

 

 

Look, in previous posts, I have suggested that yes, SD should perhaps add a note on the packaging about Impulse, so, in a way, I already agree with some of your positions. But the arguments you make really do not help the case at all.

Just to add on to my own post. In fact, a used copy of SOASE without an ICO and Impulse account is exactly 100% identical to a new fresh out of the box copy whoose owner did not sign up for Impulse or Ironclad Online. A user can play Sins in Single Player mode (do not have ICO account) without installing Impulse (do not need Impulse account). In fact, I do it all the time, and I am a legal registered user.

 

Whoever is retarded enough to complain about the little DRM on this, and other stardock games needs a kcik in the face.... Go get Spore, or another EA game. After a couple fresh installs go beg them to let you install it again.

Also, we never landed on the moon.


For the millionth billionth time, the store was not at fault for reasons that I have made abundantly clear. It is the publisher who is at fault for not informing consumers.


US law doesn't mean shit here. Deal with it.


Read the thread.



This is irrelevant.


I never used the word defective, you did.


What difference does it make? You're just asking random questions to sidetrack the thread.


It should be somewhat obvious by now that we are not talking about a used copy that has an unused serial.


The account does not come with the game.


I have already explained this several times.


No, because it's a fallacy. He got cornered and tried to escape by abruptly changing the subject.


Where?


Are you trying to prove that I'm right? You can clearly see from that exchange that he changed the subject. First I was arguing that in terms of profit it makes no difference who buys the game, but then Zubaz suddenly says "well they never got any money from you" which is totally unrelated to what we were talking about.


So even you can't understand your paragraph.


I have already said several times that shrink-wrap EULAS aren't legally binding here.

Epiclulz... go die in a fire.

Wow epiclulz you bring internet idiocy to a new level.

Obviously the OP doesn't want to listen to anything but propaganda thats in-line with his opinions.

 

Just lock this thread, its going nowhere.