Getting my arse handed to me...

...in 1.096b, could use some help.

from Sins Forums

To put it bluntly... the TEC AI (Hard) keep sending about 40-50 squadrons of bombers and 20-30 squadrons of fighters at me (I play Vasari), and the carriers are backed by around 20 or so Hoshinkos. I'm not even going to bother detailing the rest of the fleet, because it's not the part thats damaging me.

Jam Weapons (maxed) on my Kortul(s) do absolutely nothing. I can set it off as soon as the bombers enter the sphere of effect, but they have already fired their salvos at that point. In addition, the ability is apparently broken as the bombers continue to fire even when they have "weapons jammed" tag on them (they fire again on the very next pass!). As for this one, I must say: wtf? Am I not understanding how to properly use Jam Weapons or something? Or is it broken?

I've typically had about 20 fighters and 20 bombers, and around 20 Sentinels (with the AOE missile tech) on hand to defend my fleet. I do tell the fighters/sentinels to engage enemy bombers. To no avail... that many squadrons of bombers make short work of my cap ships and/or Enforcers, and take quite a while to whittle down.

I usually have about 15-20 Overseers on hand at any time (is this too little?).

When/If my fleet does manage to engage the enemy fleet, I have difficulty chewing through the carriers/hoshinkos due to the repair ability of the Hoshinkos. I'm guessing this is my fault because I'm not really sure which ships counter them... I've been attempting to use either Enforcers or Skirmishers (both, even), neither seem to be very effective (the Interference ability (Skirmishers) doesn't seem to hamper the Hoshinko's very much - I sometimes wonder if the AI control of the ability is auto-casting it at the same target for all of them... that would be amazingly stupid, and just my luck, grr).

Subverters are not an option at this point, as I am being forced to deal with these enemy fleets before I can research Subverters w/ disruption fields (even if I only have invested in two Imperial Labs just to get Volcanic/Ice worlds).

All in all I am having some difficulty adapting to the new Strikecraft based strategies that were introduced in the beta, and I could use some Vasari-oriented advice!

-Itharus

 

strategy
29,200 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Flak frigates are more anti-fighter platforms than anti-bomber. Interference doubles antimatter cost and cooldown time of abilities, so if they still have antimatter when they are interfered, they can cast... it just lengthens the time required to cast again. If the Kortul you have also has Disruptive Strikes, try sending it after the support ships, since the penalties incurred by that buff stack on top of itself and Interference (I've seen cooldown penalties of 190% with one Kortul and Interference), as well as removing antimatter. With 1.09, Disruptive Strikes gets a boost to both antimatter removed (10/20/30), cooldown penalty (15%/30%/45%) and duration (15 seconds).

If you could research Enforcers, Distortion Field is one lab away... but if that's still out of reach, I'd be increasing the number of fighter squadrons I have...

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

If was to say anything, I would say to get your Capital ships closer to the enemy transit area. No Carrier can stand up to more then a few hits from a capital ship, and if you have LRF, put them close as well, and aoe the area with missiles as soon as they transit. Replace any Bombers you have with Fighters, be much more useful. And increase your AF ship numbers. Take some choke points so you don't have to spread out your fleet as much. Remember, losing a planet or 2 is fine if you hold the choke point so long as you don't lose your fleet in the process.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Really? Uhg... I guess my brain was still wrapped around the WW2 model of flak guns; where big low flying slow bombers are what got ripped to shreds by flak instead of the small, fast, much nimbler and higher flying fighters. It's weird that the flak frigates are more anti fighter than anti bomber.

So are fighters really the only true counter left to bombers?

I'll try sticking the Kortul(s) on the repair ships... presuming I can get them to survive, lol. Thanks for the info on Interference/Disrupting stackage issue.

I'll try out using alot more fighters as well.

Do either of you know what kind of ship does the most damage against Carriers and Repair Cruisers?

I'll go poke around the beta forum to see if anyone else is having issues with Jam Weapons... because if that was actually working, I think I'd be having a lot less problems, too <_<

-Itharus

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Just get hundreds of Lansuraks. lol j/k

 

And, FYI, it's Hoshiko, not Hoshinko. . . :P

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

In the TEC game, light frigates(in your case Ravastra Skirmishers) are effective, but if you can get them i clse enough, LRF(again, in your case,Kanrak Assailants) should also take out the Hoshikos.  As for the Percherons, a carrier without aircraft is, well I dunno, not very usefull:S .

\Hope this Helps,

                        Koda0B)

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Similarly, strike craft without a host carrier are useless... they just die off slowly if you kill the host. Interference also works on carriers, since they require antimatter to rebuild strike craft... Fighters cost 13 AM and bombers 25 AM... so doubling the cost would hit carriers hard given their relatively slow antimatter regeneration rate (except in the gravity wells of stars and TEC carriers in their own culture).

Focusing your Assailant's missiles on the carriers or units near carriers would work with Charged Missiles, since they can have a longer engagement range, not to mention the area of effect damage.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

 

First, we are talking about 1.09+, not 1.05.

You pretty much need your own fighter coverage to eliminate the enemy bombers.  Luckily, fighters destroy bombers, so you don't need as many, but you still have to dedicate a chunk of your fleet to carriers or you are going to have a hard time with enemies who are carrier heavy.  Once the bombers are contained, your enforcers have much higher survivability to do their job.  Once the bombers are dead, use your fighters to kill enemy LRM and enemy fighters.

If the enemy doesn't have LRM's (or so few you can kill them easily), Skirmishers are also a good idea.

It is pretty critical you research the Vasari self repair tech (2nd tier military) for the enforcers and skirmishers.  For the cost, Vasari has less firepower than TEC, but the ships are tough, and the self repair ability is critical to keep those expensive HC's alive as long as possible.

Focus fire the enemy Hoshiko's and then go after the carriers.  Upgraded Assailants are great for this, UNLESS you can't keep them safe from the enemy fighters, in which case they will die.

The battle between Vasari and TEC becomes an economic one at some point.  As Vasari, you have to be able to control the neutral extractors on a map and establish yourself very quickly early game.  TEC has good economics and cheap ships.  If you deadlock without a major advantage, these factors really start to hurt Vasari as you pass midgame where people have econ and advanced ships out.  You will need Returning Armada or Subverters at some point.  RA rushing may no longer be viable, but Tier 2 RA is still a great way of getting influxes of cheap ships.  If not returning Armada, you will need Subverters.  Without Subverters or Returning Armada, an equally skilled TEC player will eventually get you if you haven't killed him early.  If you have time to get 15-20 Overseers, you have time for Subverters, which I consider more powerful.  But you still need those fighters, or the enemy bombers will maul your support cruisers.

 

Sorry for the long answer, but the good side of this is fleet diversity is tremendously rewarding in 1.09....as opposed to 1.05.