McCain wins second debate

I think both candidates performed better than last time (especially McCain).  Again, I find myself agreeing more with McCain's domestic issues and Obama's foreign policy, but I personally feel Obama did somewhat better, but that's just my take.  I'm still undecided, and have to go vote absentee this week, so I need to make up my mind soon (of course, I could vote for a third party as well).

I didn't get to see that much of it...so I don't really have an opinion.  I only caught the last half hour and the only thing that stood out was Obama avoiding that last question and went off on some tangent about growing up and American opportunity and blah, blah, blah.

~Zoo

I disagree.  Neither of them answered a single question.  It was all deflection and piles of stinky bullshit from both losers.

It seemed to be, largely, a replay of the first debate. I don't agree with him but Obama's responses to the economic portions of the debate seemed more thorough than McCain's did and, if nothing else, Obama's attitude when answering showed that the economic woes of the US are a major impetus for his campaign.

On the other end, McCain took foreign policy and showed that with experience comes a great deal of comfort and logic when handling foreign affairs. Obama dodged questions and used McCain's answers as a platform into his response (while adding nothing to them) and focused largely on Pakistan just like in the first debate. Where Obama clearly feels very strongly and deeply and, more importantly, comfortable discussing the country's economy he lacks the deep knowledge of foreign relations and efficient, responsible use of the US's military force that McCain brings to the table.

Still can't say I like or agree with either of them enough to vote for one or the other.

No wonder. Obama arguably knows a lot more about the current crisis.

The general (read: Media) consensus, is that McCain won, but not by a knockout.

I doubt anyone got out of this any more than they wanted to, and it appears apparent by the comments here.  NO major gaffs, and if you hated the guy before, you thought they stunk last night.

It was a really boring debate, the townhall format sucks for this type of thing.  I agree with Frogboy's assessment, but McCain should have done more to associate Obama with the economic problems today.

Obama, as usual, blamed Bush through most of the debate.  Oh, and he decided health insurance is a "right".

I think he was too focused on saying how much of an inexperienced child Obama is.  I'm not sure if he was doing this the whole time, but at the end I was hearing a lot of it.

Do you know how irritating it is to be told you don't know anything?  I'm surprised Obama didn't slap him at least once.

~Zoo

I saw most of the debate while dealing with a barking dog and a headache due to stress of the day. What I saw was 2 very strange people wanting to run my country. One who looks like he is already a stiff and is being moved around like in the movie "A weekend at Barney's" who seems to wanna do the right thing but failed to give details as to how he's gonna do it. Still I was convinced he's got the right idea. Then we had a guy who rather than wanting to become President because he's the right guy for the job, seemed more like trying to convince us he should be the President because McCain was the wrong guy for the job.

Wow Zoo, I am at a loss for words here. I am not sure what to respond.

I agree they did seem more thorough, but the trick is to figure out if his ideas are the right ones. Obama can give me 400 pages worth of details and I still would not agree with him because I don't agree with his concept at all. He claims we can not do more spending while cutting taxes yet this is exactly what he is proposing in a way. I just don't think that the burden of all the bad spending in this country (and the good) should be forced upon a single class in this country. I think everyone, as an American who benefits from all the great things this nation has to offer, should be a part of what makes this country work. I think everyone, regardless of your income, should pay taxes, period. I like getting my refund check every year, it's a time I get a chance to buy things I can't normally buy during the ear, but if I don't get it all back I am fine with that as well because I know (or believe) my money is going towards making my country a better place for me and my children. I don't understand how so many people don't feel this way and want more money for themselves not just from their own earnings but from that of others.

Charles, what is wrong with you?

You are making fun of someone who isn't limber because he was tortured for over five years.  365 days a year, for FIVE years...his bones were broken and not set.

I've got an idea, how about you run out and break your own legs, your arms, and just sit around and let them heal and when they seem to be getting a little better find someone to give them a good twist or kick.  Do that for about five years and then we'll make fun of you for being a stiff.

That really pisses me off.  Especially when you say this in the same breath...

YOUR country?  Call me old fashioned but in MY country most people have more sense and HUMILITY than to make snide remarks about someone's war wounds. 

I agree with Tova, Charles.  This was one very cruel and insensitive thing to say.  If anyone deserves to be President just for for serving our country alone McCain does.  Obama might look pretty, young and limber and all but what the heck has he done for us? 

I took notes last night.  I totally disagree with SC and do agree with Island Dog on this one.  I found McCain DID answer the questions and Obama DID not.  It's very easy to say he didn't  answer the questions SC but where's your proof? 

They were asked a question about what they would do if Israel was threatened.  Would they immediately support Israel or wait for UN Security Council approval?

McCain answered immediately "not wait for approval."  He said an attack on Israel would be a threat to the stability to the Middle East. 

Obama on the other hand never answered the question.  He went on and on about not allowing Iran to become nuclear.  On and on he went NEVER answering the question.

The last question was to tell what you don't know and how you will learn it?  I thought it was a dumb question but Obama NEVER answered the question.  He went on about challenges the White House would bring. 

McCain came right out and answered it saying "I don't know what's going to happen here and abroad."  He said he didn't know what the unexpected would be.  

Another question was asked if they thought Russia was an evil empire.  Barack gave this long convoluted answer and never really answered the question.  Very slippery. 

McCain played it smart AND he answered the question.  He said "Maybe"  He said "if I say yes it would be reigniting the cold war and if I say no it would be to ignore them."

Overall I think McCain had the much better answers but I was very disappointed he didn't step up to the plate more for the American people and be more forthright in saying how we got ourselves into this fianancial mess.  I think he needed to come right out and say instead of "Obama and his cronies" come right out and name names and their connection to Obama.  By not doing so, many are erronously still thinking this is a Bush problem when in fact it's not. 

On the other hand I think Obama is very slippery.  All he had to do last night was to look good, talk a good talk and play it safe.  The burden was on McCain.  When it came down to it IMO Obama did a better job in his job than McCain did. 

One thing is for sure, Obama is very much a Socialist and those answers he did give were true to his beliefs.  I still am trying to figure out who is going to pay for all this health care and education he's promising while he promises the moon to the middle class. 

I'm sorry for being honest but that is what I saw. Yes, I know of his war injuries but I couldn't help but seeing how he moves around so stiff. My point was towards his age as oppose to his war wounds. It is a scary thought to me to spend so much time deciding to vote for someone who could kick the bucket right after he gets elected leaving us with someone we didn't really look to as the President (be it Palin or anyone else). While his injuries are part of his problem, his age seems more of a factor to me. But I will apologize for seeming as if I was making fun of his service and the end results of that. It was not my intention, I admire him for what he did.

Yes, yes you could.  Nader '08!!!

www.votenader.org

It was "Weekend at Bernie's" -

I'm voting for the 'dead guy' but only because his positions & policies are more closely aligned with my personal beliefs than are Obama's.  I'm not much looking forward to the next 4 years with either as President.

I in no way have my head shoved up a particular party's ass.

Wish I could've seen the first hour, but I was watching a new episode of Dirty Jobs, a show I believe to be much more entertaining than a debate. 

I don't think you can prove a negative...

You should rephrase that to say: "Prove he went off topic" or something similar.

~Zoo

Thanks for the correction. I can't access IMDB.com from here so was not able to verify, although I could have used wiki.

Hmmm, ok.

Believe me you didn't miss much. Besides, had I realized there was a new episode of Dirty Jobs, I probably would have watched it too. Hmm, maybe he can be a Senator in one of his episodes, judging by the economy today, that seems like one hell of a dirty job, or is it the people who are dirty and not the job itself?

The only thing these debates have shown me is that both of these candidates absolutly suck.

The fact that our choice is no longer "who is best qualified" but "who is going to screw things up slightly less" is pathetic and reflects on our two-party system.

I've made my mind up - I'm not voting for either of these idiots.

I don't agree with McCain on lots of things.  The whole buying mortgages issue kills me.

The only thing about Obama is, he can do a whole lot of damage in four years.  And I think it will take decades to recover from what he intends to do to this country.

Charles, its all good.  That just struck me like a slap in the face for some reason today.

HAHAHAHA. We're better off after Bush's eight years then? And we'd be better off with someone who runs strikingly similar campaign to King George? Someone who agrees with Bush over Ninety percent of the time, and I suspect the percentage  he disagres only stems from when he used to a maverick between his 2000 campaign and september 2001.

Obama definately isnt great, but what horrible things would he do? Encourage Complete energy independance in ten years?  Cut away at the Regean Era Republican debt? Handle Foreign matters in a respectful way as opposed to the Spoiled Brat ethics of Conneticut raised George Bush and String Pulling John McCain?

really so it's been bad for 8 years?  Hmmmmm I didn't hear much complaining before 2006.  In fact unemployment was low, businesses were doing great, real estate was thru the roof.  We had businesses making so much money they didn't know what to do with it.  Houses were selling up a storm in Maine (I worked in Real Estate).  They couldn't keep houses on the market for more than a week in some cases. 

You might want to go back about just two years and that would be when Congress rearranged itself into a Democratic one and it went all downhill from there. 

It's not Bush.  It's the Democrats.  They are the ones passing all the laws thru Congress.  They're the ones screwing with the economy.  While Bush was running a war the Dems were playing in the House and having a ball with our money giving it away like it's growing on trees. 

No, you were within your right. Sometimes I don't always see what I write till after I write it.

Yea, and I guess the simple fact that Congress has been in the Democrats control for the last 2 years has nothing to do with what's going on either right? Oh, but only the President of the US has all the power, right? This kind of ignorant babbling is what is making Obama win. And you know what? I hope he wins, not with my help, but I hope he wins because the ignorance of the average person in this country deserve a punishment only Obama can provide.

Yea, let's elect a man whos mentor hate sthe US, who worked with a terrorist, who was part of a group called ACORN known for their fraud and agressive tactics, oh, and let's not forget how he wants to sit down with people like the President of Iran with no pre-conditions. He also wants to punish people for not having insurance (rich or poor) with fines, he wants to only 5% of working people to pay for taxes while everyone else either gets to pay a lot less, pay nothing or even get extra money back . I guess that is definitely fair.

I find it funny you blame Bush for what is going on when it's ben proven time and again the Democrats started this whole BS. Not that you will admit it, all you will probably say is the Republican had control of the House at the time. People like you deserve Obama.

What is scary about Obama (to me) is his socialistic tendencies.  As we saw with Hoover, a few short years of such thinking and action, can take decades to undo.

I think there is a place for government in our lives, but I don't believe it should be the center of it.  I certainly don't think we need to raise taxes on ANYONE until we get rid of all the excess spending.  But Obama has voted for every single tax increase to ever cross his path.

When someone starts messing with MY personal budget to finance socialism, it ticks me off.

Yea, and I guess the simple fact that Congress has been in the Democrats control for the last 2 years has nothing to do with what's going on either right? Oh, but only the President of the US has all the power, right? This kind of ignorant babbling is what is making Obama win. And you know what? I hope he wins, not with my help, but I hope he wins because the ignorance of the average person in this country deserve a punishment only Obama can provide.

So what Congress has all the power? There is this little thing called Balance of Powers. "The Do Nothing" Congress, as it has often been called, has been restricted because Anything that happens to be passed(Bailout aside, whom neither side among citizens generally agreed with) could be vetoed by the president. To overturn that veto, they would need three/fourths majority. Now maybe if incredible partisanship didn't exist, the democrats slim majority wouldn't matter.

Yea, let's elect a man whos mentor hate sthe US, who worked with a terrorist, who was part of a group called ACORN known for their fraud and agressive tactics, oh, and let's not forget how he wants to sit down with people like the President of Iran with no pre-conditions. He also wants to punish people for not having insurance (rich or poor) with fines, he wants to only 5% of working people to pay for taxes while everyone else either gets to pay a lot less, pay nothing or even get extra money back . I guess that is definitely fair.

HAHAHAHA I am the ignorant one? By Obama's mentor I assume you mean Rev. Wright, even though their relationship was entirely sensationalized by the evil left wing media. Rage over the semantics used to criticize america, or is dissent now unamerican? If so you may as well be calling George Washington Un-American. What about McCain's Hagey? And the 72 year old(12,000 pages of medical records since 2000, when he last had to hand in his medical records[compared to Obama's one page for 20 years) running mate Palin's reverand curing her of witches(the same man who walked into a town in africa I believe  which was on hard times and convinced the towns people and whipped them into a frenzied mob chasing the a young woman the man claimed was a witch). Oh the rehabilitated domestic terrorist guy Obama barely knew. They served on some board set up by Republicans. The same ones John McCain endorse right? McCain is in the clear right? In the Clear about the fundraiser he attended with an extremist pro-life group. That was championing a woman who was recently arrested for shooting a doctor for preforming legal abortions, and also connected with fire bombing abortion clinics. A woman whom upon conviction the Arizona judge called a demostic terrorist. Let's forget that though, but there is still his connections to the Iran Contra affair. Like the funding he gave to the human right's violating drug smugling Contras. And his connection to Oliver North. Now Ayers was never convicted of a crime, and never killed anyone. North by contrast was convicted, but his testimonial gave him immunity. Under the direction of North, The US sold 48 mill. in missles, and other weapons to Iran, classified as an international sponser of terror. North then illegaly used some of his money to help fund the terrorist contras. McCain's view? His website boasts his endorsement. McCain also supported North's 1994 bid for Virginia senate. If you want I can go on further about others connections to the Iran-Contra affair, or other connections to terrorism.

I'll finish with to me personally, I don't believe in Guilt By Association. I choose instead to vote on policies. I do not agree with the idea of privitization. It is my opinion it leads to things the housing collapse we are currently going through, which began in '99 when Bill Clinton signed into law a deregulation bill introduced by the republican congress. I believe limited regulation is helpful, because the market does not regulate it self. I beleve regulation stopped children in ware houses, and gave us the 40 hour work. I believe the FDR style of politics helps us and lead us to prosperity. I believe Reagan style of politics has lead us further into debt with every republican to have contiued his policies. I challenge you to look that up for yourself to. That is my opinion, If yours is different wonderful, but unless it's at the very least Libertarianism(whom atleast belive in freedom unlike republicans) I most likely won't respect your opinion. What was next oh when you said screw diplomacy, I agree we shouldn't do that at all, even though thats what Bush is now doing, and what our commanders on the ground recomend we do, screw those guys to! Grr...I hate  diplomacy soo much...we just need to bomb bomb bomb every one, right? thats the way it comes off to me atleast. Why can't you guys understand policy? Obama would only punish a corporate entity like Walmart for not giving healthcare options to its employees. I wouldn't have to pay a dime, a rich person wouldn't have to pay a dime if we had no healthcare. and a small buisness would receive tax credits for healthcare. Is it really that hard to understand? You said I was Ignorant? atleast I know what what both McCain and Obama propose instead of running around spewing out what i heard out of main stream media. AS far as taxes go look at how 90% of people in the US installed governments of Central and South America live.  That's the tax policy you want.  Where the rich stay rich, and the middle fall into the lower class. Lower class can't afford to raise themselves out of poverty. It's about giving the lower class a fair opportunity to raise themselves out of poverty. To contribute to society to make an overall stronger, more resilient, richer country for everyone rich included.  The Rich already pay a disporportionatly low percentage of taxes.

I find it funny you blame Bush for what is going on when it's ben proven time and again the Democrats started this whole BS. Not that you will admit it, all you will probably say is the Republican had control of the House at the time. People like you deserve Obama.

I don't only blame Bush. I blame his admistration. I blame all Republicans since Nixon, more specifically the Regan Era Politicians. There has been a major democrat party spilt. Now you have FDR democrats and Reagan democrats. As I said above. I do blame Bill Clinton and the Republican congress for getting us into the mess in '99. Funny to see you speaking out against the Republican mantra of deregulation though. For the Record both sides are corrupt and don't often act how their constituancys woud like, in other words the both suck. My personally beliefs as what could be classified as a progressive leans me toward voting for democrats, but like I said they both suck. I believe over the past eight years the Republican's have been insanely and almost completely corrupt, while only most democrats are corrupt. So yes in that sense I do blame Republicans much more than democrats. Again I blame both sides of the two party dictatorship for most of our problems. I blame the republicans more so for doing much more to craft our consumer economy that helped to dum what percentage of the population did vote.  I won't be as shallow as you and say something like, No, It's people like you the deserve what we have now.

Calling him Socialist is no different then calling Bush and McCain Facist.  Obama is more like FDR(notice like, i am not calling him FDR). Lets not forget Hoover was Republican. McCain's weird call to do exactly what the bailout was supposed to do, in buying bad mortgages, nevermind how would one classify those mortgages as bad, assuming he's talking about cutting out the middle man in the companies, and how even the often republican Chamber of Commerce says McCains economy ideas are bad.  The tax thing is an enormous disinformation. look at a fact check website for Obama. that claims includes multiple votes for the say bill, and other provisional things that even McCain voted for. Getting rid of Bush tax cuts is not truly increasing taxes.  Democrats have that track record of creating surplus' and republicans have the track record of leaving deficits.  Again Obama would bring us no closer to socialism than Bush has brought us to Facism.

I bet Fidel Castro agrees with Bush very rarely.  Does that mean you would vote for him?

On the domestic side,I am not sure what Obama supporters can really argue that Bush did so badly other than not veto the spending spree congressional republicans went on.