Richard Heaton Richard Heaton

Help: early game starbase problem.

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Help: early game starbase problem.

from Stardock Forums
I just got Galactic Civilizations and have been playing it nonstop since I got home with it. It's a great game, but I have one serious problem and I was wondering if anybody could help me out. I cannot for the life of me seem to get any resources except by waiting until midgame when I'm beefed up and taking them by force. I have tried again and again and again, but no matter what I do the computer beats me there.

This appears to be a function of two things. First, of course, is that the computer cheats like a madman. Fair enough... that's the standard way to make AI's competitive. But the rate he builds constructors at is totally absurd. I had one game where I was lucky enough to score some free military ships, so I parked them in front of the first resource I knew he would go for and started destroying constructors. I would estimate that I had destroyed between ten to fifteen by the time I got my first constructor built. Mind you, this is a computer who has about 2/3 the population I do.

Second, of course, is that the computer knows where everything on the whole map is. Again, standard for AIs. But in this game it has the unfortunate consequence that the computer is sending constructors into my territory to build on resources in my sectors even though they are way outside the area he has previously been. So I can't even get the ones that by all rights should be easiest to get. In my last game, I was sharing a cluster of stars with the Yor. I was on the right, he was on the left. To the right of the cluster, outside the area of the stars, were two resources. He sent constructors through my territory to the other side of the cluster and claimed the resources almost before I even found them myself.

For some reason, this appears to be unique to constructors. I am more than competitive on colony ships. In the early game with computers on normal difficulty I am usually the top or next to top player, population wise. But when it takes Sol 50+ turns to build a constructor and the computer cranks them out literally at the rate of about 1 per five turns, how am I supposed to get any resources?

Thanks for any help.

-Drake

~SDC~
745 views 31 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top
I was just thinking of taking advantage of GalCiv being a 2d representation of a 3d world ... to those that are complaining about getting nearby resources robbed by the AI early on,

You can try blockading galactic resources from alien constructors. Early on, when the AIs constructors only have a movement speed of less then 3/turn, you only need 3 ships to effectively block them from ever reaching a resource (unless they use multiple constructors). I didn't really look into the economy of it (whether 3 cheap ships cost less then one constructor ... maybe sensor drones, but those come a bit later on the tech tree), but if you have 3 ships kicking around with nothing to do, its something to think about


they are changing this particular thing. The new versions will effectively allow their ships to pass right through yours if not at war. :(
Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top
Okay, my last game was a little less insane. Like you said, the approval rate seems to more or less level out. Also, I'm not sure why, but it seemed to fluctuate less dramatically if I keep morale at like the high 80s or low 90s instead of 100 in the early stages. I think maybe the planets were overpopulating so fast that the morale was plunging into the 40s before feedback effect could kick in. I think I have got all the major kinks worked out and expect to beat the computer on intelligent some time soon. Thanks again for your advice, everybody.

I do have another question though (surprise!). Everyone has pointed out, and I have also noticed that the computers regularly extract tribute from each other. And if there's one computer that has the beefy military AI it will tend to push all the other computers around successfully, thereby fueling its continued agressiveness. My question is, what is the deal with diplomacy in this game? Does it work differently between the computers than it does between you and a computer?

I am usually doing pretty well on diplomacy bonuses. I often have diplomatic translators and I have a small racial bonus. So almost every time I'm trading with another race, I get the message about my "incredible abilities." And yet, the computers WILL NOT make favorable or even fair trades, no matter what I do. The only time I have been able to get a good trade is when the computer comes to ME, in which case you can sometimes get insane values (like, you get battleship technology in exchange for nano-electronics). But when I'm talking to them, the only way to get them to deal is to make trades which are simply not worth it. Generally speaking the computer will not trade me a tech even for a superior one. I have to offer two. The only exception is that for some reason he is *nuts* about trade goods (presumably because he can't just make them himself).

With a little more information about how the diplomacy engine works I think I can make it pay even despite this. What I'm wondering is, (1) will the computers trade techs with each other and (2) if so, will they do it on the same turn? Back in the days of Master of Orion 2, I used to use this cheap trick. The computer would trade for tech, sometimes favorably but usually not. *But*, he didn't need to trade favorably for you to get the most out of it... if you developed one tech that none of the computers had, you could trade that tech on the same turn (before they got a chance to trade it to each other) for one othe tech from each. You ended up with a few new techs while only putting one new one out into the universe.

Another thing. Another cheap trick I have been using is to exploit the minor races for their tech. They typically have only one or two planets, often weakly defended. If you park an attack force outside, you can trade with them at a horrible disadvantage because it doesn't matter. If you give them every tech in the book in exchange for the two or three that they have, it's a good deal because you just stomp them the same turn and then they can't give those techs to the major races. I THINK. This is again why I'm wondering if computers trade in the same turn. Another thing about that trick, too. Usually after I do this, when I take the planet, I still get a tech in the invasion! What's the deal? Shouldn't the tech have shown up as an option for trading in the diplomacy screen?

-Drake

~SDC~
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from Stardock Forums Top
The computer has a set value for the various techs, and this value is sometimes counter-intuitive. One thing that you can say with a good deal of confidence is that the comp won't trade any ship-type tech (or ship-type prerequisite tech) for anything resembling a reasonable value. Which makes sense, because otherwise you could go for a pure infra build, then trade to the comp for his ship tech, and have the best of both worlds: your super-infra planets now producing dreadnaughts.

As a rule, don't trade anything to the comp that enhances their diplomacy, as that reduces your ability to trade profitably with them. I like trading any neighboring AIs any +traderoute techs I have, they pay well for them and they are likely to send those freighters to you which benefits you both monetarily and diplomatically later on.

Also, spread your trade payments out, you might only get 100 BC for 1 turn for a net profit of 100 BCs, you might be able to sell the same tech for 10 BCs a turn for 15 turns (for a net sale of 150 BCs). I generally set per-turn value so that the payment is somewhere in the teen's of turns.
Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top
"
You know, I never build transports to bring down morale. I keep meaning to, but.... seems like an evil option to me!"

I've never needed to. I suppose my economics picks give me enough money to pay for morale enhancing buildings in most games but even when I don't take those picks I still avoid spacing my people. I would if I had to, I'm a very evil player but it's never been needed.
Reply #30 from Stardock Forums Top
Pretty much same here. There's a bit about midgame where morale becomes a little tight, but a little technology push to get stadiums/teleporters or somesuch sorts that out for me.

~SDC~
Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top
The only time I use the transport trick is when I take over an AI planet that is just so grossly overpopulated that there's no hope of me fixing the morale issue before it defects on me (i.e. rush-buying a stadium and teleporters isn't going to cut it). In that case I bite the bullet and space a bunch of people. :)