Are you afraid of talking about racism?

I wrote, what I considered, a very controversial article titled Are we really ready for a Black President? where I expected to either have a lot of insults thrown at me or so very interesting comments. While I did get some very interesting comments, I found it quite interesting (I like that word a lot) that very few people actually commented at all on my article. I was hoping to spark some kind of decent argument in the hopes of pushing the idea that talking about an issue could bring about solutions to the issue. Instead I got a few comments, great ones I might add, must less than I could have expected.

So I ask this:

Are you afraid of talking about racism? Are you afraid of speaking your mind about this issue? Does it make you uncomfortable? Or are you simply not interested on the topic?

I would have thought this topic would be one widely discussed since it seems to be one of the main focuses of today's elections, especially from the Democrat side. I don't have a problem expressing myself. Do you?
4,132 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top

Hard to say.  The only racism I've ever encountered came towards me from black people.  Let me rephrase.  African-Americans.  No, let me rephrase again.  Black Americans.  I qualify it this way out of respect for Africans.  I've met lots of Africans, and they don't want to be associated in the slightest way with Black Americans that call themselves African-Americans.

Reply #2 Top

P.S.  I guess that means Africans are racist against Black Americans.

Reply #3 Top

Are you afraid of talking about racism? Are you afraid of speaking your mind about this issue? Does it make you uncomfortable? Or are you simply not interested on the topic?
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Scientifically speaking 'race' doesn't exist.  All people are people, they're just different colors...and I don't really give a shit.  Racism is just a waste of time and displays a great wealth of stupidity and hatred.

I'm not racist because there's no basis for it.  If I'm going to hate someone there's going to be a much better reason than some arbitrary color system.

~Zoo

Reply #4 Top

Scientifically speaking 'race' doesn't exist. All people are people, they're just different colors...and I don't really give a shit. Racism is just a waste of time and displays a great wealth of stupidity and hatred.
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Interesting answer, but I'm afraid reality is reality and while race does not scientifically exist, neither does God but a lot of people still believe he does just as they believe race does so one could say that in a way it does. After all, are we not technically a Human Race?

I'm not racist because there's no basis for it. If I'm going to hate someone there's going to be a much better reason than some arbitrary color system.
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Thats great, but my question was are you afraid to speak about racism? Meaning, to avoid coming across as racist, being labeled a racist even if you don't believe in race, you would rather not touch the subject at all.

Hard to say. The only racism I've ever encountered came towards me from black people. Let me rephrase. African-Americans. No, let me rephrase again. Black Americans. I qualify it this way out of respect for Africans. I've met lots of Africans, and they don't want to be associated in the slightest way with Black Americans that call themselves African-Americans.
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So are you saying one needs to experience racism in order to be able to talk about it?

Reply #5 Top

Nice, I got featured.

Reply #6 Top

One of my newest bestest friends down here is black.  I've never really had a good friend that was black like this before.  I absolutely love her.  I don't see color when I'm with her really at all.  I just had her and her beautiful daughter for dinner.  Her daughter is my age but looks absolutely gorgeous and much younger than me, at least that's what I see. 

To me it's nothing having them for dinner, but to them it's very meaningful.  I talked to my friend at length about racisim and she assures me it's alive and well.  She's felt an outcast by the whites ever since she moved to the USA from Trinidad years ago.  We met at church where she is one of only two black couples, the other being her relatives.   She said in Trinidad, there were no race barriers only separation by wealth. 

I felt outrage when she told me some of what she's gone thru over the years.  At one point she was thinking of becoming a JW.  She was told that she would not feel comfortable in a white Kingdom Hall and that she should consider going to the Black Kingdom Hall instead.

She went to neither.  

She  and her husband visited an all white Presbrytarian Church here just a couple of years ago when she was looking for a church.  Nobdody spoke to them.  She went again.  Nobody again, spoke to them and she knew they were not welcomed.  As the only black couple in a totally huge white church, I'm sure they stuck out and NOT ONE PERSON welcomed them. 

How sad!   And all the while they shake their heads in agreement when the story of the Good Samaritan is read. 

I agree with Zoo (write it down, doesn't happen often |-) ) that race really doesn't or shouldn't exist.  It's just skin color and maybe just maybe the whole thing is a test.  If so, we may find ourselves flunking a very important basic test of our very own character. 

Reply #7 Top

Scientifically speaking 'race' doesn't exist. All people are people, they're just different colors...and I don't really give a shit. Racism is just a waste of time and displays a great wealth of stupidity and hatred.
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Gets frustrating dont it?  Just wait to you have had to put up with 50 years of it.  It is way more than tiring.

Reply #8 Top

My students talk about it a lot.  One student will say "My dad doesn't like black people--that's why he's not voting for Obama."  Another will say "I'm glad I'm not black living a long time ago, they were slaves."  It's interesting what they understand at 7 and 8 years old.  I'm not afraid to talk about it.  I think its an interesting discussion to have with anyone.

Reply #9 Top

 

After all, are we not technically a Human Race?
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I prefer 'species.' :D  Race kind of works in this case...I mean, theoretically if we were to differentiate sentient beings(aliens or fantasy races) that's probably the more acceptable use of the term.  You see race all the time in games like that...but using 'race' in the same species is kind of...well, unnecessary and incorrect.

Thats great, but my question was are you afraid to speak about racism? Meaning, to avoid coming across as racist, being labeled a racist even if you don't believe in race, you would rather not touch the subject at all.
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I don't like getting into the discussion...I'm not afraid to talk about it, though...and I haven't been called racist yet. :)  I don't have much to say on the subject other than what I've already typed...I see people of all ethnicities being racist and it's pathetic and sad. 

I agree with Zoo
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Holy crap!  It's the second coming! :omg:

Or just common sense. :)

~Zoo

Reply #10 Top

Not AFRAID just TIRED.

Reply #11 Top

She and her husband visited an all white Presbrytarian Church here just a couple of years ago when she was looking for a church. Nobdody spoke to them. She went again. Nobody again, spoke to them and she knew they were not welcomed. As the only black couple in a totally huge white church, I'm sure they stuck out and NOT ONE PERSON welcomed them.
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Doesn't have to be race.  Been to PLENTY of churches and never spoken too.

Reply #12 Top

Doesn't have to be race. Been to PLENTY of churches and never spoken too.
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I understand that as well Tova, (actually happened to us last week)  but if you, a white person, visit a new church you may just blend in and people may not understand that you're new..especially if it's a large church. 

We talked about this.  She and her husband obviously stood out as the only two black people in the church.  She went back the next week and definitely felt the coolness and never went back.  There was no doubt that this was a new couple in this all white church. 

 

Reply #13 Top

We talked about this. She and her husband obviously stood out as the only two black people in the church. She went back the next week and definitely felt the coolness and never went back. There was no doubt that this was a new couple in this all white church.
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I don't know KFC. Not that I am saying it was not but in a court of law, the simple notion of "it felt that way" would not go very far without some real proof such as words and statements. I find this whole, hoping from one church to another quite interestin. I have never heard of people who hope around looking for a church they may like, I just think you try one long enough to see if it provides what you are looking for but to go from church to church like going from restaurant to restaurant looking for good food, sounds unusual to me. I was lucky to be in a church where everyone is freidnly and the first thing they did was to make sure everyone knew I was new to the church by putting my name up on the projectors they use and to call my name out and have me stand up and say hi. Not exactly what I was prepared for when I went there, being shy and all in public.

 

 

Reply #14 Top

I have never heard of people who hope around looking for a church they may like,
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That's probably because you haven't gone to church much.....when you move you have to find a new church Charles (if you have a habit of going).  We try several different churches unless we're lucky enough to find the perfect fit the first time.

There are lots of reasons we don't return to a church like, they aren't friendly, they aren't a Bible based church, they don't have a significant children's growth program, there is no place for me to serve, lots of reasons.  Joining a church for me isn't about sitting there on Sunday...I plan on spending a LOT of personal time there outside of Sunday Services, with the members of that church, and its a facility my family will spend many many hours in (not just on Sunday).  So if for instance the church is not kid friendly then I know its not a fit.

Not to mention some churches are good at bringing people to Christ and giving them milk, but that's all they do.  Once you are ready for meat you have to move on if you want to grow.

If you have a church you like, and you are able to grow there and contribute at the same time, thank God.

I was lucky to be in a church where everyone is freidnly and the first thing they did was to make sure everyone knew I was new to the church by putting my name up on the projectors they use and to call my name out and have me stand up and say hi.
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hahaha.  That HAD TO BE a Baptist Church!  Sure other churches do it too, but every single baptist church I ever attended did the same thing.  How's that for puttin ya on the spot?  hehe.

She and her husband obviously stood out as the only two black people in the church. She went back the next week and definitely felt the coolness and never went back. There was no doubt that this was a new couple in this all white church.
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Maybe it was because they're black, or maybe it was just because they were NEW.  Some churches don't like outsiders and treat black white green all the same, in a cool unwelcoming manner.

All I'm saying is there could be more than one reason the black couple was slighted, it doesn't HAVE to be because they're black.....I'm not black and the exact same thing has happened to us SEVERAL times in several diff states.  :S

 

Reply #15 Top

I find this whole, hoping from one church to another quite interestin. I have never heard of people who hope around looking for a church they may like, I just think you try one long enough to see if it provides what you are looking for but to go from church to church like going from restaurant to restaurant looking for good food, sounds unusual to me.
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I agree with Tova.  We're in the process of going "church shopping" right now.  Everyone is diff.  We look for different things.  First it has to be bible based.  Second it has to be alive and active.  Third we're looking for warmth.  We're also looking for a place to be used.  We're workers and are ready and willing to be put to work.  When we had teens we were looking for a church that had other teens or a good youth group in it.  Diff churches meet diff needs and have diff programs. 

Basically we're looking for our home church down here and have yet to find it.  Our church back home had it all. 

We went to one church a few weeks ago that had sounded promising.  It had alot of positives about it but the preacher was preaching so topical and so blatantly "free will" it turned us right off.  All I could do is write down scripture that was contradicting his message.  I handed it to him on the way out.  Yep.  I did.  It was that bad. 

There was no joy in that church during the singing we both noticed and commented on afterwards.  My husband said it's directly related to his preaching style.  I never thought about that before.  But even the worship leaders at the front looked very bored and unhappy as they were singing joyful songs to God.  Crazy. 

We went to another, last week, and not one person spoke to us.  It was hymns only and everyone was quite old.  The preacher actually preached a good message and I liked him. 

Maybe it was because they're black, or maybe it was just because they were NEW. Some churches don't like outsiders and treat black white green all the same, in a cool unwelcoming manner.
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well she seemed sure it was color related without going into details.  Maybe it was a look?  Maybe it was a whisper or a point?  Not sure, but she's in her 70's and is a very Godly woman so I don't doubt what she's saying.  She comes from Tony Evan's Church in Dallas so she's in the same boat I am here. 

I don't understand the whole "we don't like outsiders" bit.  I mean how unbiblical can you get?  There are some churches who are ok with outsiders but they're just not willing to go out and bring them in.  Usually they're what I call "hyer-Calvinists" and feel God will lead them to their door.  Not biblical either. 

 

Reply #16 Top

I don't understand the whole "we don't like outsiders" bit. I
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We saw this more in the south (the Bible belt, heh) than most other places.  I know it sounds stupid but I think this inherent distrust of outsiders goes back to the civil war and carpet baggers.

People grew up, my husband included, being taught not to trust strangers, especially if they talk funny and are outsiders.  He got it from his dad, and his dad from his dad, all the way back.  Florida may be transient, but there are enough locals and natives, and even other southerners who moved there, to carry that culture with it.  At least when I lived there.

Reply #17 Top

The issue is one involving point of view and generalization. Racism is the use of an arbitrary characteristic (that is, not an essential characteristic like intelligence, but one that can be selected at random, like skin pigmentation or eye color) and using that characteristic for the purposes of acquiring or maintaining power. That's racism.

We can easily identify racism, if we really want to understand what's going on (not just protect our power). When we look at some of the actions of a number of people, like Rev. Wright, and then generalize to the population (that is, we take what we don't like about some individuals and then lump all people who share some arbitrary characteristic with the behavior of those individuals), we are engaging in racism. Not by choice, often, but by conditioning. We were trained to think in these absolute ways. And American politics doesn't help, because it is presented to us as a binary--one is either a member of this team or that team. If you're on that team, you think this, you act like this, you believe this. If your on this other team, you think this, you act like this, you believe this. This makes it easy to compete with the other team because you can easily identify the enemy (or so it would seem). The problem is the "left" or the problem is the "right." But these ideas, like the notion that people of color are perpetuating racism, is not rational. All Rebublicans are not religious nuts who claim to hear the voice of God and forge ahead with their gut instincts in lieu of empirical evidence for what they "believe." All democrats are not tree-hugging tax-and-spend nutcases who want to take away all the money from wealthy Americans and give it to illegal immigrants. These are juvenile generalizations that sway crowds of people to follow the lead of one or a handful of people who have an agenda which benefits themselves.

It is no more reasonable to point the finger an people of color because of what we see a few people of color doing than it is to point the finger at white people because of what we see a few white people doing. For every Rev. Wright we have a Jerry Falwell, who says things that are just as dispicable. Were we all clear thinking people all the time, we would realize that the issue is with the individuals and their claims. There is no causal connection to their race. Generalizing to race is a way of avoiding the actual issue. What someone says is dismissed because they belong to a certain group. The specifics of what they are saying, then, are pushed aside and replaced with broad generalizations. Saying that all Christians are mind-numbingly dumb and superstitious is the same as saying blacks claim that they're being treated the way they are because they're black.

What matters--or should matter--to reasonable, thinking people is what specifically is being said and the specific evidence for it. Not who is saying it or what group you attach them to. For example, when Jerry Brown (D) said America needed a flat tax, many Republicans said that he had inhaled too much pot. When Dick Army (R) said America needed a flat tax, many Republicans stood behind him and said it was a good idea. The specifics of issues like this reveal that the issue has been sidestepped by group-loyalty and blind-allegiance to some "group." It is clearly irrational and not in the best interests of sound government or positive social awareness. It only makes it easier for us to be manipulated.

And we cannot overlook pont of view. I am a pasty-white boy. I was raised in an upper-middle class family in an upper-class white neighborhood in the south. My family attended the Methodist Church. I am a heterosexual. If someone wanted to pick on "white" people or "middle-class" people or people from the south or "Methodists" or "heterosexuals," I could see that animosity, because it was directed toward me. But, like all of us, I was blind to bias and aggression directed toward other groups, because I wasn't in those groups and it take a great deal of effort and personal committment to others to find out what life is like for people who are not from the same backgroud as we are. Living in most predominately black neighborhoods in America is not the same as living in most predominately white neighborhoods. Being gay in America is not the same experience as being heterosexual. Being christian is not the same experience as being Jewish, or Muslim, or athiest. Being a man is not the same experience as being a woman. Groups that we "belong" to tend to welcome us and make us feel comfortable. Groups that we don't "belong" to tend to be wary and suspicious of us--no matter what those groups are. But the groups are almost always arbitrary. Even political parties are not based on centrally agreed upon ideas about how the world should be; they are more often based on which party a person's parents belonged to or a single issue that grabbed someone's attention and led them to a particular party. To assume that those individuals now embrace every idea that the group puts forth (as much as this helps the group gain power) is irrational.

You asked, "Are we ready for a black president?" I say the question is misphrased. The issue of "black" is irrelevant. It's like asking if we're ready for a president that eats sushi or a president that has brown eyes. The real issue is whether or not we are ready for a different type of president that what we've had for the past seven and a half years. That's what everyone should be asking themselves. Are we ready for a president who looks at facts rather than trusting his gut instinct over and over again even when his gut instict leads him astray? Are we ready for a president that realizes issues concerning America are complex and involve the ability to change and alter when new information presents intself rather than continuing on a course that has been unquestionably shown to be based on false information and wrong assumptions? Are we ready for a president who is actually committed to the rights of average Americans, rather than protecting big business at the expense of the working class? Are we ready for a president who will speak opening with the American people rather than stage his public appearances and prepare canned responses? Are we ready for a president who will hide government reports that reveal the failure of his (or her) policies? Are we ready for a president who will seek qualified council rather than appointing people to positions based on their loyalty to his preconcieved notions? Are we ready for a president who will generate international good-will an improve the reputation of America world-wide rather than lowering world opinion? Are we ready for a president who will generate admiration from other world leaders?  . . . and so on.

Setting up a discussion of this election as a contest between a black candidate and a white candidate is fallacious. You shouldn't vote for a candidate because he is black; neither should you vote for a candidate because he is white. You shouldn't vote for a candidate because she is a woman or because he is a man. You shouldn't vote for a candidate because he (or she) wears his (or her) religion on his (or her) sleeve, claiming that s/he is a Christian. Anyone can say anything. You need to vote based on what they do. McCain was a different man in 2000 than he is in 2008. In 2000, there were qualities to admire in him. But his party and group consciousness elected Bush over him because certain members of his party had seized control over what used to be the party for smaller government and controlled spending (just check out the growth of the government and the rabid spending that has taken place in the past seven and a half years and you'll see that the actions of this administration don't match their rhetoric ). If we had the same McCain as we had in 2000 (sans Palin), we might have a reasonable candidate. But we don't. McCain no longer speaks directly about issues that he understand. He cloaks his words. One example was when he was asked if prophylactics prevent the spread of disease and he refused to answer, saying only, "You got me there." An absurd response and one that indicates McCain is willing to put aside what he knows to be true to cater to what he percieves as a "base" that can get him elected. Not straight talk. And Palin . . . well, I know plenty of intelligent Republicans who consider her an insult to the party ticket. Not personally, of course, but based on her qualifications and her deep lack of awareness of world issues. Every indication since winning the party's nomination is that McCain will continue the same fear-mongering, secretive government that we have had for the past seven and a half years--the one, in case we forget, that doubled the price of gas, drastically increased unemployment, eroded our rights under the Constitution, kept Americans from fair access to information, damaged the environment, shifted wealth away from the middle class, took a balanced budget and created the largest deficit spending in the history of the United States, increased the national debt from seven trillion (and sinking) to over eleven trillion (with the new bailout), whose corporation-friendly policies have led to the current financial crisis, and who failed to avenge 9/11, failed to establish a stable democracy in Afghanistan, failed to weaken the Taliban, and were willing to sacrifice nearly 5,000 brave, American soldiers in Iraq rather than admit they might have misjudged the situation (you may recall Bush claimed they would probably only see one or two casualties in the entire war).

Are we ready for a black president? The question is irrelevant.

Are we ready for a president who has the intelligence and compassion to lead the most powerful and important country in the world? Yes.

Are we ready to put aside blind loyalties to groups to which we think we belong and vote for someone who actually speaks in specifics rather than generalities? yes.

Are we ready for a president who will not use fear to keep us obediant and unquestioning? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who is unafraid of open discourse and free speech? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who acknowleges that to be American is to be from numerous religions, cultures, races, genders? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who will NOT continue the same policies that we have experienced over the past seven and a half years? Yes.

I personally don't care if he is purple and a member of the Three Frog Party, as long as he exhibits the strength of character and intelligence to change the course of this country and use the country's resources for the benefit of all people.

 

 

 

Reply #18 Top

Are we ready for a black president? The question is irrelevant.

Are we ready for a president who has the intelligence and compassion to lead the most powerful and important country in the world? Yes.

Are we ready to put aside blind loyalties to groups to which we think we belong and vote for someone who actually speaks in specifics rather than generalities? yes.

Are we ready for a president who will not use fear to keep us obediant and unquestioning? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who is unafraid of open discourse and free speech? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who acknowleges that to be American is to be from numerous religions, cultures, races, genders? Yes.

Are we ready for a president who will NOT continue the same policies that we have experienced over the past seven and a half years? Yes.

I personally don't care if he is purple and a member of the Three Frog Party, as long as he exhibits the strength of character and intelligence to change the course of this country and use the country's resources for the benefit of all people.
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Except for the last question, I'm afraid you are trying to paint Obama as something he is no where near being.

Reply #19 Top

Obama sucks.

That is all.
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:rofl: