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ShackNews Interview with Brad Wardell (Part 1)

ShackNews Interview with Brad Wardell (Part 1)

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=994

ShackNews has a two-part interview with Stardock CEO, Brad Wardell.  The first part talks about the plan to “revitalize” PC gaming. It also covers Stardock's stance on copy-protection.

A quick excerpt:

"Shack: A lot of people think the solution is making games that are so connected with the online experience that everything is validated online, patched online, controlled through the internet. But what you're talking about is an offline, almost traditional solution.

Brad Wardell: Well I think [we need] a combination. You have to be able to protect your intellectual property. And I'm a big believer in activation. Our games, not all of our games, but Galactic Civilizations uses activation for downloads. Basically, our system has always traditionally been that you purchase a game, it has no copy protection, but if you want to update it you have to get it from us with your serial number, and we validate who it is."

It's a great interview, and be sure to check it out.

133,398 views 41 replies
Reply #26 Top

I have to sympathise with Frogboy and Co here.  They earn a living making a damn good game, after it's release they invest a lot of the companies money to improve what is already a good and stable game and give this to it's customers free of charge.  What do they ask in return?  That you install a comparitively small program that serves as a game patcher, game advertisement and game distribution platform.  Big fucking deal, I could just play 1.0 or one of the patches I downloaded previously, it makes for a damn good game, very good value for money and I certainly have no right to demand any more for what I paid for it.  I might expect it or ask for it but think I have a god given right to be given free stuff afterwards without me just proving to SD that I bought it in the first place and not downloaded from the countless sites that offer it for free easily? nah

I've attempted to inject some reason in to Venym's moral crusader thread about Impulse being unbareable to him but seriously this guy is 100% idiot.  I think he's read one too many conspiracy web sites about Software Vendors Locking their customers in (can anyone say Microsoft?) and now has a bee in his bonnett about anything that looks like what he read about.  I'm not even sure he truely believes the bullshit he is spouting?  I can't help but think that he does actually feel a fool for making a big deal out of nothing but now continues to argue to try and convince himself that he was right in the first place.  Either way I'm really glad I'm not you, I can only guess from your stand point on this that you must also refuse to use Windows, any Microsoft Product, any EA game, any Valve game, any MMO....thinking about it you wont have much to do with yourself in years to come.  Let's hope you come out of your nuclear bunker and smell the roses some time this decade, for your sake more than anything.

Reply #27 Top

My argument is that I hvae paid for the patches (I was not given a discount for purchasing a game with no support) and I have no problem with verifying that I own a game. I do have a problem with not being able to patch an offline game (by what ever means) and by having to activate said patched game.

Nothing was mentioned on the box about the restrictions placed on support.

Which is why your argument also fails. You didn't pay for the patches. You paid for the license to use the copy of the software on that disc. The cost of the game does not include cost of support. It is usually provided free of charge, but not always. There are plenty of companies who charge for post-release support (most commonly, tech support). Furthermore, Frogboy himself said above that Sins has no activation, and previously said they are looking into ways to enable patching on permanently offline PCs.

Furthermore, nothing is ever mentioned about support on the box because support is not included in the box. This is the central flaw of your argument, your assumption that when you bought the game, you paid for the support and thus have expectations for how it's handled. But it's the wrong assumption.

 

Reply #28 Top

Regarding Impulse not being a "lock-in" mechanism, please feel free to brush up on what customer "lock-in" means (for starters, customer "lock-in" doesn't mean that Impulse checks the CD key before the game starts).

Perhaps you should brush up on what it means, instead, since you seem to be struggling with it. Stardock is the only company allowed to publish patches for Sins. No other publisher or developer has legal access to the Sins' source code or permission to make and publish patches. As such, how can there be a customer lock-in by Stardock when they are the only ones allowed to publish patches to begin with?

Definision of customer lock-in:

In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in, or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. Lock-in costs which create barriers to market entry may result in antitrust action against a monopoly.

So, how exactly does this apply to Impulse? Easy, it doesn't. Since no other "vendor" can legally create and publish patches (ie provide support) for Sins, there can be no customer lock-in. To compare Impulse to customer lock-in is like saying that a store chain that has both physical stores and online shopping practices customer lock-in if certain things are available online only, or if a certain company offers support online only and not by phone.  It makes absolutely no sense.

You say I don't know what DRM/copy-protection/Impulse is?  Prove it.  You say I'm wrong in my arguments and assumptions?  Prove it.

I've taken the time to type my messages with sufficient examples and citations.  You can opt to not be lazy and put some thought into your responses too.  In normal forums, flamers are met with a swift ban, but you seem to be exempted by the merit that you and Frogboy share the same position.

You're making this too easy. Since this revolves around Sins, let's use it as the perfect example:

- No copy protection on the disc. You can install from copies, it doesn't check for the CD in the drive.

- No cd key check on install. You don't need a valid cd key to install the game.

- No cd key check on game launch. You don't need a valid cd key to play the game.

- No activation. You don't need to ever be connected to play the game. Not the first time you launch, nor ever.

- No registration/Impulse. You do not need to have Impulse installed, or running, to play the game.

- You do need a valid cd key to patch. But hey, guess what, DRM doesn't encompass patching, thus needing a valid key to patch a game cannot be a form of DRM, because the game itself is unaffected.

Furthermore, Impulse itself is not DRM. It is a distribution platform. It has DRM features built in that publishers and developers can use, but it doesn't force them (unlike Steam - in which case, every Steam game has the same form of DRM, in that it requires steam to be running). As you can see, Sins uses none of the features of DRM, or of copy protection.

As I've said, you don't even understand what you're trying to argue about!

Alas, I'm also out of troll food. Arguing facts with you is impossible, because you can't accept any.

Reply #29 Top

Thats one way or losing customers! At least pirates don't have to put up with this level of customer support!

What level is that? Lots of free updates? Interaction with the development and publishing team? 

Or do you mean that your view of the relationship between gamer and developer/publisher is a license for the gamer to issue unlimited demands in the shrillness possible way?

But yes, I absolutely meant what I said.  People who have unrealistic or unreasonable expectations or requirements are not someone I want to do business with.

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Reply #30 Top

That's right - they get NO customer support, vs not wanting to engage with trolls who go on and on and on via the forums the publisher provides as a courtesy to enhance the game community...

Reply #31 Top

Well i don't really know what to say, or how to say it.
But Frogboy is the first dev i have seen in the public who is actually being realistic.

He just simply says: "if you are not happy, don't buy anything from us again or just call me for a refund."

I like what i read here. I will buy nearly everything.
Stardock can have my cash and i just can't wait for GalCivII stuff, Demigod, Sins upcoming features/patches/expansions/mini-expansions, Not-MoM and GalCiv III :p

 

 

Reply #32 Top

Furthermore, nothing is ever mentioned about support on the box because support is not included in the box. This is the central flaw of your argument, your assumption that when you bought the game, you paid for the support and thus have expectations for how it's handled. But it's the wrong assumption.

 

I was going to go home last night and quote the warranty section out of the manual that would usually say something like "free from defects for 90 days or your money back, replacement or fix (read patch)". Imagine my surprise when it turns out that the Sins Stardock warranty is non existent! All there is, is a sentence saying that there is NO warranty.

My point still stands that should have said clearly on the box that internet activated updates were the only updates that would be provided and unlike standard software sales they have NO compulsion given to provide support (They should also have reduced the price of retail to reflect this (it at least would have been fair)).

Oh well, lesson learned. At least I know now to avoid Stardock products in future as well as EA activated/limited installs and Valves software. Humph, the software industries very own axis of evil!

Reply #33 Top

What level is that? Lots of free updates? Interaction with the development and publishing team?

Or do you mean that your view of the relationship between gamer and developer/publisher is a license for the gamer to issue unlimited demands in the shrillness possible way?

But yes, I absolutely meant what I said. People who have unrealistic or unreasonable expectations or requirements are not someone I want to do business with.

 

Its just the way you effectively told him to "sod off". To my reading it sounded kind of harsh.
I hardly think its unrealistic for an offline customer to be able to access updates etc? Obviously you do. The least you could have done is printed this clearly on the side of the box so a potential customer could have made an informed decision and this whole petition/request (as opposed to argument) could have been avoided.

Reply #34 Top

Oh well, lesson learned. At least I know now to avoid Stardock products in future as well as EA activated/limited installs and Valves software. Humph, the software industries very own axis of evil!

Maybe just stop buying PC games then???

Reply #35 Top

Quoting Hack78, reply 9

Oh well, lesson learned. At least I know now to avoid Stardock products in future as well as EA activated/limited installs and Valves software. Humph, the software industries very own axis of evil!
Maybe just stop buying PC games then???

Nope, there are plenty of games around that do NOT have activation. I will make sure to support these in future. If that means I miss out on some great titles then so be it, its not the end of the world.

By making my voice heard here I don't expect Stardock to change their policy (it would be nice though) but at least they know that they are driving some paying customers away.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting bbtestbob, reply 10
Nope, there are plenty of games around that do NOT have activation. I will make sure to support these in future. If that means I miss out on some great titles then so be it, its not the end of the world.By making my voice heard here I don't expect Stardock to change their policy (it would be nice though) but at least they know that they are driving some paying customers away.

I don't think they'll miss you.

When I was a teenager I worked in a couple of shops, when a customer made a big fuss about nothing the manager used to throw them out, we certainly didn't consider it a loss.

There's always going to be people making a nuisance of themselves, and in forums where there is a sea of people who don't care enough to comment or who silently agree/disagree you can bet there will be a few who will loudly find issue with anything.

Reply #37 Top

Personally the whole impulse patching issue is a non point for me because I buy the software and my gaming computer has internet access.. If it didn't have internet access on my gaming computer then I would probably be a little upset and lashing out on the forums. Where else is he supposed to talk about this?

If I remember correctly it used to be possible to download the patches directly from the website, if this has changed then Stardock really should mention that an internet connection is required for updates on future game boxes/marketing materials just so everyone knows what their getting into..

Reply #38 Top

My point still stands that should have said clearly on the box that internet activated updates were the only updates that would be provided and unlike standard software sales they have NO compulsion given to provide support (They should also have reduced the price of retail to reflect this (it at least would have been fair)).

Sins does not have Internet activated updates. 

We simply require you to download the updates from us.

Reply #39 Top

Venym - if everyone spoke as you do, I would lose complete faith in the industry and quit my job. Fortunately you are a rare ungrateful parasite among a loyal community of gamers that want to live in the PC gaming golden years. Please take your refund back to the bank or the person who paid you to whine here after every public release. If its ok with you I have an expansion and massive free update to work on ;P

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Reply #40 Top

Ouch, Craig! So much for you guys living vicariously through all of us being mean to the poor kid :D

Reply #41 Top

Sins does not have Internet activated updates.

We simply require you to download the updates from us.

 

Oh right, I could swarn you said all updates needed to be activated before you could start the game again.

 

If thats the case, how will I go about installing the update on my offline games cimputer. (No internet at home, only at work)

 

Thanks