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If you don't Tithe, do you go to hell?

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If you don't Tithe, do you go to hell?

Does it help at all, or is this just a scare tactic?

from JoeUser Forums

I can't imagine going to a church or being a member of a church where they tell you that if you don't tithe, you go straight to hell, or someting like that! 

I am aware that there are some churches who do force their members to tithe, I think that is wrong. There are also those out there, who if they don't force memebers to tithe, they dictate how much money their members should give to them.  I also think that is wrong.

When I was a regular member at a church, I did tithe, I gave whatever amount I could afford to give, but I was aware of the fact that there was a minimum set and the members that didn't give, weren't look on in a particular nice manner.  Yeah, one of the reasons why I no longer go there (even before I move more than 1000 miles away)!

Some people would put giving to their church first before they even pay their bills or they are left without enough to support their family expenses for the month!  Does that make sense to you?

I believe that members of a church should contribute money, if they can afford to, and when they can afford, to the causes of the church.  That goes without saying. But to be forced to give money just becasuse, no way! 

I think each church organization have a responsibility to its members to make sure that they don't feel pressured into giving what they can't afford.  They also should be responsible to make members aware of what they as a church community or doing and what their money is being used for.

charity religion
153,641 views 66 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top

(also to an earlier point, I'm not sure that firstfruit is relevant because 1) it was about crops and doesn't translate to $ and 2) why are we upholding this one law of the OT and not the other laws (animal sacrifice, for example))

Firstfruit can be used in a variety of ways.  it's basically just giving God back the first of whatever he gives us.  Christ was called a firstfruit because he was the first one to raise from the dead and it promises that there will be more to follow.  That's what giving is all about.  We give God our firstfruit and he promises us there will be more to follow.  We will be blessed.  Israel in the OT was blessed when they continued in this vein.  When they got away from giving to God, they found themselves on their own and realized too late they had no blessing upon them like they did back in the day when they were obedient. 

I agree -- but didn't think you thought this with your first comment (about something being wrong with your heart if you aren't giving).

it's a heart issue regardless.    We give or not give according to what's going on in our hearts.  It's been said you can tell alot about a person in just two ways.....what they spend their money on and what they have on their bookshelf.   "where your treasure is, there is your heart also." 

You say that you aren't sitting in judgement of me (or anyone else) but then you make a comment about my "clenched fist."

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was speaking in general terms, not you specifically.  When you were speaking or advocating not giving but give to yourself first I was saying you were speaking of having a "tight fist" meaning in a general way.  I have no idea what you do personally nor do I need to know.   So I really have no idea what you do. 

Personally, I don't think that there is a mandate from God to give a certain percentage, but rather that "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Absolutely.  I agree and was the first one to bring this up.  So we agree on this. 

First hand knowledge that God blesses you more than anyone else because you are a believer and tithe? There are plenty of others who have first hand knowledge that praying to God isn't always enough.

While I do believe God blesses those and honors those who honor him that's not what I'm talking about here.  I've heard many testimonies from others even right here on JU by those who gave and were surpised at how it blessed them.  I heard quite a story yesterday from a friend here in my neighborhood when we discussed this issue. 

but I will, each and every time I'm given the opportunity, stand up for those who are made to feel inferior because they don't "give enough."

and nobody is accusing anybody of anything.  We are just having a discussion here.  You are taking this way too personal. 

I feel no need to prove myself to anyone

agree, nor should you.  It's always been between you and God anyway. 

 

Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top

I see tithing as helping others (more so the down trodden). Sure tithing money to the church so that it can be redistributed is not a 'bad' thing but it I don't believe it is the ONLY tithe you have to give. Making a little extra food to feed an elderly, stopping to help a lady with a flat tire, shoveling the unmarried neighbor lady's driveway just because. These are all goodwill offerings. Again it goes back to the matter of the heart.

Well said AD.  That's what it's all about.  It's a matter of the heart. 

We must remember that it's all God's to begin with so when we let it go, we're just giving back to him what he's given to us in the first place. 

Siege of Centauri
Reply #53 from JoeUser Forums Top

I've been biting my tongue about a personal issue between you and I, Jythier, but after reading some of your comments on this thread (and the other one by Boudica)...some of them bordering on outright cruelty, I am tempted to tell you to ask God for your fifty bucks back.

If he doesn't come through, I'll send it to you personally, (as per your original request) despite the fact that you volunteered quite readily to assist me this spring, even after I had told you the issue had been taken care of by another friend.

If I remember correctly, miss Whip, you publicly announced you would pay everyone back or forward it on to a charity or whatever.  My thought at the time was, "I'm going to need money because now my wife is pregnant.  Is this God providing?" So I said, since you OFFERED, yes, I'll have it back please whenever you're able to.

Now, sometime later, I was approached to help someone else in need on this board.  So I said to myself, "I would love to help, but I don't really have any money... hey, what about that money LW was going to pay back?  It would be much better to send it on to a person who needs it more than me!"  So I approached you to send it on, PER YOUR ORIGINAL OFFER, with no more expectation of ever seeing that money again, just like I had when I gave it to you, until you offered.

By the way, you can forward that money on with no problem (send it anonymously if you want, so I have no claim to it) as God has already fulfilled your challenge.  In fact, fulfilled it just after I told you to send the money along.  In fact, fulfilled it without ME asking Him to do so, and in the exact amount.  God always provides, for everyone.

You're right though - I am selfish.  I wanted my money back instead of just saying send it along.  I had great things planned to do with that money.  Buy stuff, for myself, because I wanted them.  It wasn't going to be used to help anybody, even my own family.  And that, LW, is why I'm so glad that you hadn't given it back yet, thank God.  Because now it can go to good instead. 

What does any of this have to do with tithing though?

Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top

Jay, God knows your heart.  I think you are a very generous person only trying to do what you believe God led you to do.  Don't feel bad about that. 

Don't worry about what LW is saying.  It doesn't really matter because in the long run it's only what God thinks that matters anyhow. 

 

 

 

Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top

and nobody is accusing anybody of anything. We are just having a discussion here. You are taking this way too personal.

Really? I thought we were discussing this because FS stated that she's no longer at a particular church because they made her feel bad about not tithing.  Maybe you were reading a different blog?

Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top

Jay, God knows your heart. I think you are a very generous person only trying to do what you believe God led you to do. Don't feel bad about that.

Don't worry about what LW is saying. It doesn't really matter because in the long run it's only what God thinks that matters anyhow.

The rub is, as always, did God lead me to do it, or did I just come up with it myself to look good?  I obviously ruined that, if it was what I was going for.  God provides humility as well.

I thought we were discussing this because FS stated that she's no longer at a particular church because they made her feel bad about not tithing.

I think that's wrong.  If you don't tithe, no-one should be publicly saying anything about it.  But if you are a MEMBER of a church that you knew going in believed in tithing, you should be held accountable for it, in the way the Bible states that sins should be confronted.

If you don't believe God provides, then don't tithe when you don't have excess, because that would be negligent to your family.

Since I know God will provide for me, then I will tithe even when I 'can't afford', because I know I will have enough at the end of the day regardless, and that I really can't afford not to.

Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top

10% is a significant amount.

Amen!

Man, has NO authority to offer salvation based on any form of works (including tithe). So with that you are correct, it's a scare tactic!

AD, so true!

 

Ted, thanks for your explanation, I think that is great, to show/teach your kids by doing!  I try to do the same!   A wonderful example you are!

 

Whip, thanks for reminding me about that Micro lending program!  I will keep my eye on it for a moment when I can be of help.  Come to think of it, I micro manage everyday, or every other week, with one family or another!LOL!  I look for nothing back because I know they can't give back at the moment and I'm only too happy to help as I can anyway.

 

Shades, I see your points and I agree that giving should not be done with the expectations to receive.

Jythier, ooooh, you made Whip mad!

KFC, I do agree that a family should give what they can afford, even if it is less than 10%, and even though for some 10% is not a lot, but it is still too much by some others. [and I'm not judging, I'm just stating an opinion] as Ted says, it IS a significant amount!

Reply #58 from Stardock Forums Top

I think that's wrong. If you don't tithe, no-one should be publicly saying anything about it. But if you are a MEMBER of a church that you knew going in believed in tithing, you should be held accountable for it, in the way the Bible states that sins should be confronted.

Why not? I don't tithe, and I see nothing wrong in saying I don't.  I wrote about this because of a couple of programs I watched on tv on sunday and it was about family and their finances and what they need to do get themselves out of the holes they are in.  Of the family featured (yeah, my grammar is bad) three of them had tithes to their churchs of a significant amount on a monthly basis.  If they were to not have the tithes for a while, they could have some recovery time from their money problems but some balked at the thought of even not tithing, even for a few months!

 

And you're saying that the only reason for going to church is tithing?  It sounds like it since you think or believe that all members should be held accountable?  This is wrong! 

Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top

And you're saying that the only reason for going to church is tithing? It sounds like it since you think or believe that all members should be held accountable? This is wrong!

No, I'm discussing tithing in a thread about tithing and keeping to the subject.  So of course it sounds like all I'm talking about is tithing in regards to the church.  It is all I'm talking about!  But that's not what the church is for.

All members of a church that states they expect a tithe need to be held acocuntable, as when you sign up you know what's expected and what they believe.  If you don't believe in tithing, that's probably not the church for you anyway.  If it is, you should discuss it with the pastor before joining.  Note that I'm not saying anything about ATTENDING a church, just being a member.

Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

All members of a church that states they expect a tithe need to be held acocuntable, as when you sign up you know what's expected and what they believe.

This sounds more like a cult than a 'church.'

Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top

This thread is focused on money.  The church isn't.  Please remember that throughout this discussion.  If the church is focused on money, it's probably a bad idea to go there anyway.

Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top

This thread is focused on money. The church isn't. Please remember that throughout this discussion. If the church is focused on money, it's probably a bad idea to go there anyway.

J, wasn't trying to attack you just pointing out to others.  My apologies if you felt the need to be on the defensive.

Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top

J, wasn't trying to attack you just pointing out to others. My apologies if you felt the need to be on the defensive.

If all my church believed was that you had to give them 10% of your income it would be pretty silly, you know?

Apology accepted.

Anyway, you don't sign up to Columbia House and then say, "Wait, I didn't know I had to buy all this stuff!"  They tell you before you sign up.  Churches should tell members what's expected of them, and they should require it.  I'm not saying that if you miss one week all hell should be set loose upon you and your next seven generations.

Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top

Churches should tell members what's expected of them, and they should require it. I'm not saying that if you miss one week all hell should be set loose upon you and your next seven generations.

and what's expected?  The Lord loves a cheerful giver.  That's it. 

It shouldn't be about the church and the giver.  It should be about God and the giver.  The church needs to make due with what they receive just like we make due with what we receive. 

When churches focus too much on the financial trouble is brewing.  They need to be working on the hearts and the minds of their people.  When they do that the finances fall into place.   We give out of a grateful heart wanting to further the work of God.  Otherwise the church is focusing too much on the externals when it should be about the business of the internals. 

 

 

Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top

I also would have much rather discussed this privately, but I understand what you're doing and why, and who you think you're protecting from me and my twisted sense of right and wrong.

The thing is, you don't need to!  Because either she feels convicted and should have been tithing anyway, or she knows I'm wrong and won't care two squirts of owl shit what I have to say on the matter.  Either way, I know what happens in my life when I tithe vs. when I don't, and that's proof enough to me.

As for my loans and charity, yeah, I know that giving to you ceased to be charity.  But I didn't lie about why I wanted it returned.  I had just found out we were pregnant again and was freaking out.  I freak out a lot.  Anyway, you know the rest of the story.  I ask for it back, I calm down, the wheels of selfishness start turning... and here I am.  A sinner, just like everybody else.

Uhmm, that was me providing you with a dose of humility, (by exposing your hypocrisy on these forums) not God.
 

Used by God.

How, exactly, have *I* challenged God in all this?

You challenged Him to pay me back directly.  He has done so, so aren't we square?

You've used the word 'yet' several times in your responses, but I did tell you that it would be at least August or September before I could even think about it.

Sorry, I forgot this was a private matter.  "Yet" was not in any way shape or form trying to make it sound like you should have already paid me back.  I understand the timetable you had presented, and didn't expect anything any time soon.  Apologies to you if the community here thought that that was what I was trying to say.

Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top

No, because my personal target of $100 for this individual was reduced by half so I could repay YOU.

Then don't repay me.

If you want it passed along, you'll have to do so of your own voilition now.

Or I can do that.  It doesn't matter as long as it gets where it needs to.

I know you told me to pass it on, Jythier, but the fact that you only came to this decision after being approached by a third party who asked you to make a certain contribution caused me to not want any part of that.

Okie dokie.