Why are there no Incremental Patchs?

Apparently you are one of the ignorant masses.

This is the beta test forum, why do you think that is? OH RIGHT! Cause there is a a ******* public beta test of the patch already underway.

I would explain to you how to get it, but since you took the time to right out all that ignorant and constructive commentary. I will leave you to figure it out on your own.

After reading his original post, it's obvious he know hows to obtain the beta, and that he already has tried the beta, so I doubt he'll care much that you didn't tell him how to get the beta.  He'll probably come to think of you as a creator of rude and useless posts though, just as I have.

I agree with what he is saying, that is:

Well, an example will make it easier to understand:

We all know about the fighters not disapearing when they're sold or switched over for bombers, whatever.  And consider another new bug about Hysteria not stopping. 

Everyone in the beta complains, "Fix the fighters, fix the fighers, fix the fighters, fix the fighters."  So they fix the fighters, and release the official patch.  Then people say "Histeria dosn't stop."  Because nobody noticed in the beta, because there were more glaringly obvious flaws that distracted people.  When the final patch is release there will still be bugs, there are just to many to get them all in one sweep.

Furthermore, I avoid the beta because it has so many game play flaws, mainly the fighter exploit.  If they would fix just a couple easy thing* I would be much more happy to play the beta, have fun, and report what small but significant bugs I could find.  I think a lot feel the same way, and the more people you could get into the 2nd beta the better the results.  You don't have to spend forever making these easy fixes, just a quick fix and release it in the new beta, it is a beta afterall.

*By saying these would be easy fixes, I have some knowledge of programming, but I don't know how the game is setup.  My guess is that it's simply programmer error.  They skipped over a function designed to destroy those fighters when sold, and a few small changes could put that function back in and fix the problem.  But again, I don't have knowledge of programming on such a large scale.  I do know Blizzard games don't have minidumps.

I decided that after I posted. Shame I was a victim of a missing edit button and could really careless what you think.  Hes also asking for the type of support that a game with 10.7 million players who subscribe to it get. I could go on and on but the fact is that while this game is popular it hasnt sold even close to the numbers of wow (which is where he got his ideas) and doesnt get a monthly subscription. I believe the number sold is still under 500,000 copies even.

That being said just because everyone in beta bitches about the fighters. Well whootiedoo the devs know about it. They have it on the fix list why in the world would they roll out a fix just for it? They should address multiple things before publishing a new version of it. Thats common sense and the most practical use of man-power when not being bankrolled at 15 Million+ dollars per month in subscription fees. Why should they pushout a new version just to stop people who are exploiting it in multiplayer games? Especially when you consider that with all the hundreds of thousands of copies sold that the peak in multiplayer is in the 100-200range.

The simple fact is you two are asking for things that are a waste of resources for a smaller publisher. Get over it. And if you don't like my post thats okay princess feel free to get your panties in knot over it. I won't care.

So they can focus playtesting and patch/balance fix content without the ever present issues of fighters maring the expereince.

Also Im sure you are aware that MANY people including myself have since stopped playing beta because some of those issues have not been addressed. Just not worth looking for other bugs/balance issues when the most obvious and glaring stand out every single game. By clearing up the issue then releaseing an incrtemental patch to solve the problem you give your beta testers in the public a better chance and finding the other bugs in the patch. Instead of turning them off from little to no repsonses or incremental changes fixes, you alienate them and driv e them away.

Isent that the point of a ptach?

How so? They can afford development time and dollars for 3 micro expansions, patch team, marketing etc, but not the dollars to set aside an hour for one of thier employees to package and updated version of the beta and release it on Impulse, thier brand spaniking new online distribution medium which was supposed to ease developer and customer access to patchs and updates as well as new content and games?

On a side not theres no reason for you to get personal or take stuff personal about this lol Its a game forum where they ask for BETA FEEDBACK as you pointed out in your above post. This is my feedbaclk on the beta. You act like a little 5 year old throwing doodoo at people for taking real issue with things and trying to get awnsers about them. Thanks for the support  Buttons, I love this game , I love and want to make it better , just dont think that the way its being gone about is making that easier. As is I stop playing beta becuase of exploits and problems. Those expereinces have ruined my desire to help find new problems. I still love the game, developer and publishers just want to kow why this is such an issue for them.

If the 2nd beta implementation happend to not work (say, it crashed the game or something) then they would have to tell Impulse to roll the game back to the 1st beta state, which would be terribly easy.  To make things worse, people would be understanding because it is a beta afterall.

I'm glad you care, but I really couldn't care less.

All we've done is asked for something that would be potentially simple, but would improve the state of the final release.  As it stands the final release will certainly have plenty of those small bugs that havn't been noticed in the midst of a hundred larger bugs.  1.11 FTW!

Ya, we've given up on the beta, and are going back to 1.5 because we have not seen even one reply from the devs over the bugs that prevent testing.  It's been way over a month, and we thought for sure they'd at least fix the SC scuttle bug so we could playtest MP, but nope. And how are we suppose to know the Devs "know about it", if they never reply?

The same day you post something with the word "Impuse" or "$9.99" exansion, we see replies, but you say "hey guys, the scuttle bug is making testing the beta near impossible", or "After just a week we all know that SC are gods and Flak is useless, we need another quick patch so we can continue testing", and you hear crickets for 6 weeks.  That's why people are getting disheartened I think.  I think all the beta testers would like some "Beta Feedback" from the Devs; how many weeks (or months) are we all suppose to point out the same bugs? 

And we thought, at least with Impulse, it would make incrimental patches fast and easy?

And Dragon, your the only person in the forum that sounds like he has his "paties in a bunch" and "bitching".

Sorry, this is not fast food development. There are many things on the list - some of which are already addressed and others that will need to wait. We do need to keep the machine moving. If we spent every day working on forum suggestions, we would quickly run out of resources and there would be no more patches OR new games. We do our best, but our primary mission is not to address every minute issue - it is to work on major patches and new games that will bring far more enjoyment to our dedicated community.

This one is for the history books

Hello, Ironclad?

Yeah, I'd like a cheeseburger.

What? I don't care. I want a cheese-bur-ger.

This is a gaming company? This is Sparta! No, this is Madness! *click*

I lol'd IRL.

Srsly tho. I was exaggerating on the 1 hour thing. The point I was trying to make is basically that packaging and releasing patch content was supposed to be simple and easy for customers through the Impulse platform. I wasent trying to say that creating and fixing/balancing a patch for a game as complex as Sins is a hour long process. I have never been in game development, but know thru some expereince with coding and such that its FAR from a simple process. Im not debating or arguing that point.

My point of contetion is that personally as a customer and a person who loves the game and has bought and will buy future games from Stardock/Ironclad, being able to assist with Beta patchs is something I would love to make my self part of. Part of that enjoyment relys on the comments and suggestions brought up being taken care of and implemented/fixed than the results being available for further testing. Thats just my own personal feeling about the issue.

To be fair, I understand the difficulties and strains some of these things must cause you. I also understand that a company must make money and will focus its attention on production and creation of new IPs or sequels/expansions to existing IPs. I felt the comment above was a bit of an "ironyburger" actually, since you have expressd your intention to create "micro" expansions rather than a full content "complete" expansion. Again, I understand the logistics behind this. It cost less money and brings in valuable income thru the continual micro purchases and customization supplied by several mini expansions over one large product. All well and good.

I am gratefull for the effort and work. I disagree with it to an extent but I understand it. I would feel more confidant that a fully polished patch would result from an incremental patching system rather than a base patch in which just the "major" issues were addressed instead of all the issues. Again I understand that nothing will be perfect and if you as the developer feel that you can balance and fix more issues without a continual stream of updated and tweaked fixes released to the public, than I will ahve to be satisfied with that. Im satisfied with the product, know it can be better and I trust the minds behind it to right the problems and continue to refine the product:) I understand that you have to balance "cost vs. return", my only desire is to see a polished and as near perfect end patch as possible and trust that you will do whats best for the game and community  (even if I might not agree with the methods, your a better judge of whats more cost effective and viable than I) so I will leave it at that! Thanks for the response guys:)

That's fine, but like I said, the final product will still have bugs that havn't been fixed because they were hidden by more obvious bugs.

At this point it seems like everyone is treating 1.1 as the final patch Sins will get. Based on another thread I am under the impression that this is not the case. Lets assume that 1.1 resolves all of the glaring issues in the beta, but several smaller bugs may remain. As long as the door is open for a 1.1+ that will squash the minor bugs that come up I think that this is a fair trade.

As far as the WoW comparisons, WoW makes more money in a week from subscriptions than the entire allotment of money for development of sins. Of course there will be a different caliber of upgrade and support. One poster said he wants a "near perfect" final product. Ask Microsoft how easy it is to reach that goal. It took Blizzard years to get Starcraft where it is now in terms of balance and exploits.

One more thing in relation about the SC exploit: Is it an exploit at all at this point? Certainly everyone playing the beta is aware of it, so for the duration of the beta test one should assume that every player has the additional squads on their carriers/caps. Definitely SC spam, but no reason to stop playtesting IMO.

Well said! 

Idiot can't even read my name right. Where are you coming up with dragon? Douche.

I see a lot of idiots who apparently have never worked for a game development company. There are a lot of projects that game developers work on, not just a single game at a time. Stardock is doing an awesome job with these patches in comparison to most others. I can give everyone a great example of how bad some companies can be, and its name is lucasarts. Those people suck at giving updates or community support. People have been asking for months, nay, over a year, for a new update to give EAW and its expansion a little more kick and compatibility. There hasn't been a single response in that timespan. So keep rockin Stardock and Ironclad, I support the way you do things, cause you actually get things done!

Maybe he "could really careless" about how some belligerent jerkoff spells his name.  But hey, we're all sorry that you got your panties in a knot over it, princess.

Craig has addressed the OP's comments, and I think these insults have gone on long enough. If the posters in question continue to behave poorly towards other users, I will be forced to take action. Don't make it come to that.

Kyro, Since I saw you respond, I want to let you know that I do support keeping these forums polite.  However, I do have to agree with the one point that as the identified bugs get fixed, it would be good to get them back out to the community.  I stopped playing the beta for the specific reason that the SC bug completely ruins the balance of the game, and I thought that was half the reason we were supposed to be beta testing, to make sure the game is balanced.

Go back to your basement little girl, leave the trolling to the professionals.

NO edit button so also take a look at who some of my Karma is from. Thats right from moderators on this thread. Guess they agree with me on post #3 of course not on my mouth. I take full credit for my mouth, you should hear it in person really. Cause I promise you princess you couldnt do a damn thing about it.

Seems you are very correct Drag.  You can attack peole that simply ask a question about the beta on the "beta forum", call them names, put them down, and get praised for it.  I actually appreciate you pointing that out, as it helped us make a decision.

Lhusu, Howdidyoudothat, and others that only had simple, basic, and questions about the beta test: I suggest you do what we are going to do: go back to 1.05; don't ask questions, don't give feedback, don't expect communications or feedback about the playtesting you've done.  Your only asking to be verbally attacked (which is rewarded) or ingnored.

Personally, I think people like the OP are "dedicated community", else why would they spend so much time beta testing and giving feedback.  But I now think, sorry to say, that it's best for us to just move on to other forums/games, rather than deal with this type of attitude.  I do wish all the people that continue to playtest/beta the best. 

actually I got karma for reply #3 which was my non-mouthy comments in well spoken paragraphs. A brief moment of lucidity if you will. well besides the princess comment, and well that was just a baited hook.

lock teh flame war plz, kthx.

I agree. And I also think drago's going to be taking a few days off. Getting karma for one instance in which you were not a complete jerk in no way justifies the continuation of your 'normal' behavoir.