Saving Grace

I don't watch much television.  In fact, the channel played most in my house is Cartoon Network.  I could write an essay on Ben Ten and his alien watch thing, or on Courage the Cowardly Dog, but as for real adult programming, uh, not so much.

So last time I was at the movie theater I saw an ad for a show called "Saving Grace" starring the fabulous and talented Holly Hunter.  I thought, "Hmmm, that looks good.  Maybe I'll watch it."

Last night I did.

Holly plays a cop with an angel, a real from heaven angel, as a buddy.  The angel doesn't seem to do anything supernatural or fantastic, at least he didn't last night.  Of course there are sub plots with the other officers who are her friends, lots of alchohol and "deserved" police brutality, but most of it was only alluded to last night.

All that to say, I like the show and would like to see all the previous episodes.  Now I just have to figure out how to do it.

But that's not the point of this article.

Really.

It was the last few minutes of a show before Saving Grace.  I didn't care for what I saw of it, the acting was WAY over done....but some people like their shows blackened, others raw.  I fall in the latter category.

So, in this before Saving Grace show, a man murders his adopted son who is about 16 with a hammer.  Why?  The kid is psycho.  He puts hamsters down the garbage disposal, chops up the family dog, etc.

The reason this grabbed my attention was because in the show, the father said he did everything else first.  Took the kid to shrinks, disciplined him, military schools, even tried to send him back to Russia from where he was adopted.

Of course he couldn't see the future but the implication was clear.

Serial killer.

Which got me to thinking.........which led to this question............

 

IF you knew a child/teen was going to grow into a serial killer, (say you babysat Adolph Hitler, or Jeffery Dahmner, and in a flash of clairvoyance, a vision from God, whatever, but you knew with every fiber of your being it was true), saw their future atrocities, would you kill him?

If you saw with crystal clear vision people being herded into railroad cars, gassed in chambers, starved and experimented on in concentration camps, adults and children alike, then dumped like so much rubbish in mass graves, would you do it?

Frankly, I know what my answer SHOULD be....but as I watched Saving Grace after this question popped into my head...and saw a little boy whose father drugged him, then burned him alive, except the boy didn't stay unconscious, his dad had to hold him down as the flames melted the skin from his body, boiled his internal organs, oh and the kid SURVIVED, to look forward to years of agony, I thought man, I know what my answer should be, but honestly?

I'm still thinkin.........

 

125,639 views 21 replies
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Heh, we do CN too. I seriously never get to watch what I want to watch, LOL. It's to the point that I'm not even sure what it is that I want to watch, haha. We also do Noggin, though. The boys criticize it the entire time they sit, enraptured, watching it. Hahaha.

Re: the question in your post

No, I don't think I would/could. I would definitely be shouting from the mountain tops that the kid ain't right, but I don't think I would ever be able to murder a child.

I don't believe killing a child would be the only way to prevent him (or her) from being able to murder lots of people, but dunno, it might be the kindest option. I just don't think it's something I could/would do.

What was the movie where they knew what you would do before you did it? Minority Report, maybe? For some reason this topic kind of reminds me of the movie Frailty (spelling?), too. Have you seen that?
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What was the movie where they knew what you would do before you did it? Minority Report, maybe? For some reason this topic kind of reminds me of the movie Frailty (spelling?), too. Have you seen that?


No, I haven't seen it, or minority report. Wasn't Tom Cruise in that? I kinda avoid his movies, they make me feel dirty.

As to the question. In the show the kid was a teen. I don't consider teens, kids, but then not adults either. They're teens..hahaha.

As a Christian I would say...of course I wouldn't kill him. It's not for me to decide. Death isn't the end, its a mode of transportation. So when he kills someone they aren't over, that's not the end. Better to not become a murderer myself, to be obedient and like you, scream it from the mountain tops.

But the other side of me thinks, well, what if that were MY CHILD he was starving and torturing? What if it were my countrymen he was intent on wiping out? If I was really convinced, really truly convinced I could save one child torture.

I saw a movie once with McCauley Calken (sp) in it. He's a horrible evil child. At the end he and another (normal) kid are hanging off a cliff. McCauley's mom has one child in each hand, trying to keep them from falling. Meanwhile she is slipping closer to the edge with their combined weight.

She has to make a decision before all 3 of them go. Does she go over with them, let them all die there? Does she release the good child and save her only evil son? Does she release her son, sending him to his death?

As a Christian the answer is..release the good boy, his path is assured.

As a mother the answer is....save my own kid.

But in the movie there is a moment of recognition on her face. When she finally comes face to face with the fact her son is evil, the world will not suffer with his absence. And she lets him go, saving the good boy.

And I was glad.

It's interesting contemplating every avenue, even tho I don't think some are really an option.
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IF you knew a child/teen was going to grow into a serial killer, (say you babysat Adolph Hitler, or Jeffery Dahmner, and in a flash of clairvoyance, a vision from God, whatever, but you knew with every fiber of your being it was true), saw their future atrocities, would you kill him?


Because we do not have the gift of infalibility, I would say that anyone proclaiming this would be nuts to begin with.

That being said, since I know I do not have the gift, I would never do it. Because I dont know. Nor can I answer the question realistically since I have nothing to base it upon. I just cant relate. I may be nuts (as many think I am), but not that nutty.
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I do not believe in killing, period. So, my answer would be 'no.'

That said, every effort should be made to prevent a killer from becoming a killer.  That effort should include, but not be limited to, in my humble opinion, reducing the glamour and prevalence of violence in our culture.

 

Be well.

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Because we do not have the gift of infallibility, I would say that anyone proclaiming this would be nuts to begin with.


Yeah, but this was a hypothetical where you did have perfect clairvoyance, at least in this case. It could be phrased a different way. If you had a time machine, knowing what you know now, would you go back in time and kill Hitler?

Kinda like the Terminator, but reversed.  :p 

I do not believe in killing, period. So, my answer would be 'no.'


Ok, I can understand that.

Is there any circumstance in which you might think deadly force is necessary, if not necessarily "murder?"

Just curious.

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Kinda like the Terminator, but reversed.


I wont be back? ;)
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I wont be back?
:rolleyes:  

Finally an eye rolling smiley!  WOOT

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Thanks, Tova!  I have had "The Good Son" on tape for weeks looking for a time to watch it...now I don't need to.

 

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This is a great hypothetical question.  For me, the answer would be a resounding no but, as Sodaiho suggests, I would do everything I could to ensure the child didn't kill.  According to Buddhist philosophy (and my most basic understanding of them) violence, or 'deadly force', as you put it, is never an option.

There is a Dean Koontz novel kind of about this too.  I think it might be called 'Lightning'. 

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This is a great hypothetical question. For me, the answer would be a resounding no but, as Sodaiho suggests, I would do everything I could to ensure the child didn't kill. According to Buddhist philosophy (and my most basic understanding of them) violence, or 'deadly force', as you put it, is never an option

Never?  You wouldn't kill to protect your wife?  Say you had, oh I dunno, lets make it fantastic.  Say you were tied to a chair, but in your pocket was a tiny nuclear rod.  Your wife is being brutally raped and beaten and the perp assures you he is going to kill her.  Slow.

You can reach the rod and touch him with it and stop him, but the downside is, it will kill him on contact, 0 chances of survival.

Thanks, Tova! I have had "The Good Son" on tape for weeks looking for a time to watch it...now I don't need to.

You still watch tapes?  ;P

Heh, it sucked anyway... <_<

 

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You still watch tapes?

My kids say I have a one track mind.  Not really.  I have an 8 track mind but no one makes the tapes anymore. :rolleyes:

Wow...lookit all them faces!  I didn't know...

Yes I watch tapes...I even have a BetaMax downstairs that would work great if I could find that little tiny drive belt.....

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My kids say I have a one track mind. Not really. I have an 8 track mind but no one makes the tapes anymore.

Wow...lookit all them faces! I didn't know...

Is that 2 of the tracks? ^_^

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Never? You wouldn't kill to protect your wife? Say you had, oh I dunno, lets make it fantastic. Say you were tied to a chair, but in your pocket was a tiny nuclear rod. Your wife is being brutally raped and beaten and the perp assures you he is going to kill her. Slow.

You can reach the rod and touch him with it and stop him, but the downside is, it will kill him on contact, 0 chances of survival.

I know this is going to sound improbable, but the person I would disappoint the most, besides myself, if I did indeed kill would be her.  Having said that, I really don't know what I'd do given the situation above.  If I could nudge him and make him sick, that would be as far as I'd like to go.

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I know this is going to sound improbable, but the person I would disappoint the most, besides myself, if I did indeed kill would be her. Having said that, I really don't know what I'd do given the situation above. If I could nudge him and make him sick, that would be as far as I'd like to go.

Ok Mason, I can respect that.

There are certain lines in our existence I think once crossed, merit immediate death, game over.

A father who lights his child on fire, yup, that is def one.:(

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A father who lights his child on fire, yup, that is def one.

OOOOOOHHH YEAHHHHHH >:(

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I just ordered the first season of Saving Grace after watching the four full episodes on tnt.com.

MAN I LOVE THIS SHOW.  Holly Hunter is brilliant as Grace.  (And that is one skinny woman.  You know if you look thin on film or in television you are friggin ANOREXIC looking in real life.  Television really does add weight.)  But she looks good on the show, wiry, buff, good.

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I am going to have to check out this show. 3 out of the 4 shows I watched are cancelled. Does that tell you about my taste? hmph....It's all good. I probably should give it up anyway, but I just can't.

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I been interested in the show but still haven't seen one episode. A friend said she loves it and that it was way better than The Closer which gets more exposure. I'll probably be my old procrastinating self and watch it on DVD sometime later this year or early next year. :)

What can I say I'm slow. In fact, I'm watching the John Adams miniseries right now. :LOL:

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I love both of the shows you are talking about.  The Closer is wonderful and Love Saving Grace.  Both ladies are up for Emmys.

Also if you go to www.hulu.com and sign up (its free) they have amost all the episodes on there.   Also if you go to http://www.tnt.tv/series/savinggrace/  you can watch a few on there too.

 

About you question... Really a good one.

No I could never kill my child or any child.  If I had an idea that this child was going to grow up to be killer and a sick person, I think I would find a way to have them put away somewhere.  Safe for them and society.  Shoot I have a hard time killing a bug.. B)

But I don't think there is a clear cut answer to this question.  Wrong can NEVER be right.  I guess there is one. *_*

 

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Welcome to my blog Rose and to JU.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Wrong can NEVER be right
 

I like the phrase but don't think it's quite realistic.  I generally think it is wrong to murder people.  Yet when we are at war, when a soldier waits to ambush an unsuspecting enemy, well I don't think that's wrong.

See my point?

I personally couldn't kill my own kid.  Period.  Even if it meant the rest of the world suffered.

Someone else's kid?  hahahah...well I know a few kids who....JUST KIDDING. :D

 

I been interested in the show but still haven't seen one episode.

If you do see it let me know what you think.  I wonder how guys will see this woman.  My husband could take it or leave it.  I ordered the first season and am willing to share.  O:)

I am going to have to check out this show. 3 out of the 4 shows I watched are cancelled. Does that tell you about my taste

If you like it, after I finish watching the first season on dvd (if I ever get them, haven't even gotten a "we've sent your item" email yet) I will send them to you.  :thumbsup: