The ironies of life

from JoeUser Forums
I find it so ironic how often the one thing we refuse to do for fear of the backlashes one will get tend to have opposite results.

I never figured my wife would stumble upon the article I wrote (Back to the beginning of a possible unhappy ending) about how we met and our 11 years together after that. As many times as I had tried in the past to get her to come to JU, she picked that one day to come on to JU. When I noticed she was reading it, I figured this was it, the end was here and our relationship was come to a screeching halt. I was expecting attitude, anger, insults and maybe even an all out argument considering I had poored out my feeling in total honesty. She had no clue about many of the things I had wrote and was shocked to read it all.

Oddly enough, after reading the article and also finding her way to the previous article (Oh how I hate to feel envy) that spawned the second one, I have seen an improvement in her attitude towards our relationship. I have to say that I too find myself rethinking my attitude towards the relationship. I find myself looking for ways to make up for my insensitive doubts I had all these years. Everything from making sure I dance at parties with her more often (I don't really dance much cause I am a bit shy about it), going to places with her I don't usually go to (I went to church with her this past Sunday, she had been asking me to go for a long time now although this was her second time there), and I have even been cooking most of the time lately (I do like cooking though from time to time< I think I cook better than her but don't tell her I said that, LOL).

All in all, she seems much more determined now to make this work than ever before. She is now constantly questioning everything (rather than accepting it and not caring) and is actaully looking for ways to fix things rather than say "oh well, if it doesn't work". She even comes to the site once in a while to read what I post. She does not always like what I write but I told her I am simply being honest and it just shows how little she knows me. It only makes her more curious about me now. Talk about improvements, feels really good to be paid attention to, even if it's for something that she didn't like. The way I se it, would you rather me be honest about how I feel and think or would you rather I sugar coat everything to not offend others? And that little feeling we like to call "being in love" may not be so far out of our reach as I thought I could be.

So remember, sometimes it's best to be honest and hope for the best than keeping things to yourself and creating a situation that will most likely lead to the worst. Just my 2 cents.
3,485 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's not 'sometimes' best to be honest, Charles, because that 'sometimes' makes you less than honest.
End of quote


You are right LW, it should be always. But it's my experience that when your woman does not look that great in a dress or may be a bit on the not-so-fit side, honesty could be more than painful, it could down right screw you for an undetermined period of time. That is why I said sometimes. I have yet to meet a woman who honestly wants to know how she looks in a dress, if she is fat or if we noticed anything different in her.

How can one ever trust a person who believes that honesty is only required 'sometimes?'
End of quote


Would you never trust your man again if he was not honest when he said "you look good in that dress" or "you are not fat" when you know you dont or are? Talk about guilty till proven innocent.

If you'd been sharing your feelings with her (instead of us) all along, your marriage might not be in the shape its in now.
End of quote


Well, guess what? I had been sharing most of my feelings with her, but when a person refuses to hear what you have to say, sometimes one has to resort to other measures. Again, I did what I could to make this work and while I made some mistakes myself I'm not gonna take all the blame for it. Still, again, you are correct. It was me not being totally honest that started it all.

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

Charles, she wants things to work or she wouldn't be trying.

This relationship shot in the arm will NOT last if you don't start talking to her instead of JU.  When you find yourself going to pour something out here, ask her if you can talk to her about it instead.

She seems ready to listen now.  Go SEE A COUNSELOR.

DeskScapes - Bring your desktop background to life.
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Amazing, I just can't win can I? Thank you Tova and LW for proving my point that not matter how good a man can be, we will always be dogs and will always be wrong. I give up, this is pointless.


Anyone seen the nearest tall building?

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
??

What is it that you want people to tell you? That you're the perfect husband and your evil wife is lucky to have such a sweet, long-suffering man?

You admit something is wrong, but you get defensive when anyone suggests something you could do to work on the problem.

It's not about you or ALL men being dogs, and I think it's a sign of immaturity that you automatically go to that anytime someone says something you don't like. No one said you were a dog. They've just given you some suggestions. No one has even been critical of you on this thread.

I don't see how go see a counselor or give your wife positive reinforcement = you're a dog.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're a dog.

Now that that's out of the way...

Thanks for the update, glad there's hope!
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Have you ever seen the movie Train Man.  It is a Japanese movie but you can get it on Netflix.  There is a couple on there that sit in different rooms and get on the same chat room.  I thought it made a good point about our lack of connection to real people. 

Somehow I think it is easier for some of us to type our feelings anonymously than to have true intimacy with a partner.  Regardless, I'm glad that things seem to be improving in your marriage. 

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

What is it that you want people to tell you?
End of quote

 

See Jytheir's 3rd sentence and maybe you can get an idea of what I am taslking about.


You admit something is wrong, but you get defensive when anyone suggests something you could do to work on the problem.
End of quote

My problem is I am getting advise on things I already said I have tried, as if I am the one not trying here. It sucks when one tries to do right yet people continue to ignore that. I case some of you have not noticed, I too am feeling the pain of our problems.

I figured an article pointing to things going better would yield good replies. Instead it's turning into a "typical man thing to say".

 

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

That you're the perfect husband and your evil wife is lucky to have such a sweet, long-suffering man?
End of quote

I am not perfect, but dam, I am a pretty good guy. Regardless of how you feel about  me on JU, I am no dog, no jerk, I don't mistreat women and I don't abuse them. The way i see it, there are very few like me, a decent guy. I may have made some mistakes in this relationship, but who hasn't in their lives. I at least am willing to admit it and make up for it. God forbid anyone would actually say "at least he's trying" or "I'm glad you are making an effort". Ever wonder why this country is so screwed up? Because people would rather opoint to all the bad others do as oppose to acknowledging the improvements.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am not perfect, but dam, I am a pretty good guy. Regardless of how you feel about me on JU, I am no dog, no jerk, I don't mistreat women and I don't abuse them
End of quote


You're projecting. No one has accused you of anything of the sort.

I don't think you're rare. YOU may think a lot of men are horrible people, but I certainly don't think so. It's great that you aren't a womanizer or an abuser, but that alone won't save your relationship.

I'm glad you guys are making strides. No one on here knows the whole situation. We only know your side of it, and what you choose to share. Some things people tell you may not be relevant or helpful, but 90% of the time (ok, I pulled that number out of my ass, but MOST of the time) someone shares an anecdote or helpful tip or even a scolding, because they CARE and they want to help you.

Being honest and being vulnerable does open you up to criticism. That is why you don't see a whole lot of people broadcasting their problems on here.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're projecting. No one has accused you of anything of the sort.
End of quote


Come on TW, we all (well, most of us) smart enough to read between the lines.

I don't think you're rare. YOU may think a lot of men are horrible people, but I certainly don't think so. It's great that you aren't a womanizer or an abuser, but that alone won't save your relationship.
End of quote


It doesn't really matter what you think. I don''t think most men are horrible, but I do believe many men still believe the woman belongs in the kitchen. You may not be one of those women who think all men are dogs, but you sure have never given me any slack ever since you started disliking me. And again you are picking individual comments as the "be all, end all" answers in my mind when it's obvious there is more too it.

Let's be honest here. There is nothing I can say that will get any positive reaction from you because you already have me labeled since day one and from what I have noticed thru out the years of me being on this site, it would be pointless to try.

I'm glad you guys are making strides. No one on here knows the whole situation. We only know your side of it, and what you choose to share. Some things people tell you may not be relevant or helpful, but 90% of the time (ok, I pulled that number out of my ass, but MOST of the time) someone shares an anecdote or helpful tip or even a scolding, because they CARE and they want to help you.
End of quote


Yea, sure. Had this been a woman writing this, the information given would have been enough to start everything from calling lawyers to setting up child support to "you go girl" responses. I have always appreciated peoples comments and I can always admit when I am wrong. What I can't stand is people ignoring parts of one comments and basically sticking to one word or phrase rather than reading the whole thing.

Being honest and being vulnerable does open you up to criticism. That is why you don't see a whole lot of people broadcasting their problems on here.
End of quote


That I can agree with. I knew what I was getting myself into when I wrote my articles, but I too can criticize other peoples comments.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
There is nothing I can say that will get any positive reaction from you because you already have me labeled since day one and from what I have noticed thru out the years of me being on this site, it would be pointless to try.
End of quote


LOL, that's not even remotely true, Charles.

You posted your relationship woes on the internet and you didn't like what people had to say back to you. That's NEVER happened to anyone else before. :LOL:

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

LOL, that's not even remotely true, Charles.

You posted your relationship woes on the internet and you didn't like what people had to say back to you. That's NEVER happened to anyone else before.
End of quote


If you say so.But that's OK, I doon't expect you to understand me, a guy.

Fuck off then, you pissy-pantied little oh woe is me whiner.

I've spent FAR too much of my precious time trying to impart some wisdom to you, and I now recognize it for what it is, an exercise in utter futility.

You remind me of Ziggy in that way, posting his problems and then alternately insulting those who offered advice or lolling about in self pity.

Fuck off, Fuck off, and oh....did I mention fuck off? I won't waste another line on you.

(And yeah, you're a dog, Charles. One that hasnt been kicked nearly enough.)
End of quote

Ah, typical LW response. I am a little confused as to why the hostility though. But that's OK. I figured you would eventually snap at me. At least I know now that it would be pointless to expect positive feed back from some here without having to nail me to the ground first.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

You know, you gals are right. I came here expecting too much and ended up getting very little of "at least you are trying" and a whole lot of "you need to do this, you need to do that". But I guess I can't expect anyone to understand how hard I have been trying to make this work, to do the right thing, to be a better person. I figured some on this site, who have plenty of experience with life, relationships, family and hard times, would be able to point a fellow JUer in the right direction and at least say if one is doing anything right at all. I don't mind being told I am wrong, it's to be expected. What i didn't expect was to be told "it's not A it's B" but I say "ok but I already tried B already" and the be told "it's not B it's C" and then I get "no , it's A" (this from just 1 person). Talk about getting confused here. From what I could gather between the 3 articles I have written, nothing I say or do will be right and that kinda sucks. I find myself confused as to how to fix my problems because I am afraid to make more mistakes since no matter what I say or do I seem to always say or do the wrong thing.

 

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
No one here can fix your problems.

We don't know the whole story, and even if we did, we don't know the two of you intimately, and even then...

You have been given some generally good advice. Universal type stuff. And you've been encouraged to take it to your wife, and put that energy THERE before you put it HERE.

No one here can fix your problems. And even if we were all saying, "Hey, great job! You're really trying", it wouldn't change the situation with your wife one bit, which is what really matters.

Do you get that?

It's not about being mean or thinking you're a dog and it's not about women not understanding men. It's about YOU investing this effort in YOUR FAMILY and looking for positive feedback from YOUR WIFE and CHILDREN, not from strangers. Our kudos means nothing if you and your wife are still hurting.

Make sense?
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good Luck
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Makes perfect sense TW. My wife does now all of this. I talk to her about it and she also reads my blogs. I am not asking anyone to fix my problems, I am looking for ideas that can help. Something that can point me in the right direction or tell me I am doing it wrong. It was never my intentions to have you guys/gals fix my problems. Having done so many things wrong thru out the years I feel I need to know I am not doing it all over again, considering I didn't know I was doing it the first time around.

And even if we were all saying, "Hey, great job! You're really trying", it wouldn't change the situation with your wife one bit, which is what really matters.
End of quote


I beg to differ. Acknowledging the improvements can help the persons self esteem. It's really hard for a person like me to believe one is doing good when for so many years one thought one was doing good and turns out one wasn't. I am having doubts about my way of doing things now. I still believe I am doing the right thing but am not yielding positive results and it's madning. When ever I do something good, most of the time the backlash is negative and it is very frustrating. As I stated in this article, it's ironic that telling a truth that I thought would have screwed me for good in this relationship turned out to actually give it the push it needed to start on the road to making it work. This too me is confusing, telling my wife how I doubted this relationship from the start actually made her wanna work harder to save it. I think I need a break. Maybe a nap right now.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks Dr Guy, I could use a lot of it right now.