[BUG] Random Map Generator Is Still Broken (EDITED 8/24/08)

I think it's supposd to be like that. you cant expect it to have 3 phase lanes from the homeworld and one of them being an asteroid because then the map isn't random anymore it's just the same layout every time with some different planets. it makes it more interesting if you have a start that you arn't anywhere near an asteroid because it makes the game interesting and it gives it diversity. i agree with the planets on top of each other though that is very annoying sometimes you have to go underneath the gravity well just to make it jump to another planet. but other than that i think the random map generator is good.

Maybe if you are playing the AI all the time and don't mind getting screwed by your position, sure, this "randomness" is great. However, for those of us who play MP, getting screwed in your starting position costs you the game. I think you can fix problem #1 without taking the randomness out of it. The whole idea of the random map is that your don't know where things arem, therefore you have to scout and adjust your strategy accordingly.

Summary: Random shouldn't equal screwed.

You got my vote. I've experienced all these issues. The small random map especially. It's like the map lotto. At least 60% of the time generates totally in one players favor.

What i dont like is if there are multiple stars the AIs are always in the same system as you. i just played a huge multi game woth 4 hard AI and 2 of them were in the same system as me. there was 3 empty star systems i just got the shaft.

@ Kaltes - That's the way it's supposed to be. The two star systems get populated at the start of the game. The other three are there for you to fight over. This is not a defect in the random map generator.

Last time I used the in-game random map creator, you got to choose how many player start locations there are per star. You didn't get to choose WHERE each player started though (you have to open the map in the galaxy creator, edit the teams, and then save it off into the non-user-created folder to do that. Then you can't auto-upload it to multiplayer people, which sucks a lot).

@ Nypryren

Actually, I am talking about the random map generator, like the one where you host a game and you pick "Random-Large (Single)". While I am sure the same problems exist for the map-creator that comes with the game, that is just a subset of the bigger problem. And yes, not being able to auto-upload is a problem, but has also been beaten to death on these forums.

While I'd agree the planets on top of one another would be a nice issue to fix, is having one phase lane from your homeworld really that bad? I personally love when that happens as I no longer have to worry about defending that planet and can instead keep my entire early game fleet at the next world in the chain.

Mazuo, I think that is what red was trying to do in that picture above. However, I expanded through the roids and blocked him from expanding. So, sure, your fleet only has to be in one place, but it will get crushed.

I guess I'm failing to understand the link between number of phase lanes emanating from your homeworld and whether or not your fleet gets crushed. Having your unified fleet split up trying to defend multiple worlds is somehow going to result in an easier battle?

You don't play multiplayer do you? Against the AI, sure, this would be a piece of cake. However, in multiplayer, the faster you expand, the more your economy grows and the more difficult it is to defeat you. Look me up online, I'll show you

Nothing's preventing you from expanding quickly in a setup with a homeworld with one exit. If I'm incorrect and there is, a few less quips about how I must be terrible at MP and a few more pieces of info next time, please.

I second that getting a horrible start spot is very often multiplayer doom, especially on smaller maps.

I wish the random map generator created planet systems like a mirror/palindrome; if I wanted a 5 planet random, it would create something like:

Terran(Player1)-Asteroid-Volcano-Asteroid-Terran(Player2)

so although the types of planets, neutrals, etc. are random, both players have an equal shot.

-RaptorJesus

Mazuo, Look at the above picture. I was able to colonize 4 roids in the time it took the over player to colonize 1 volc. The red player was a good player, but because he had to go straight civ and couldn't pump out LRFs, he couldn't clear the roid that fast, and by the time he did clear it, I jumped in. He never even made it to the roid connected to his volc.

I guess I'm missing why he had to go straight civ and colonize the volcano world. Why not just eliminate the forces there or ignore them and go colonize the asteroids?

Because I was already there...

While I understand the need for "balance" in the makeup of the grav wells and phase lines in a multi-player game, I don't see the need in single-player mode. In fact, I think true randomness of the makeup of both is essential in a single-player game. It's what I look for in single-player games when I purchase them nowadays...if it doesn't have a true random map generator, I'm far far less likely to buy it in the first place.

I tired of seeing forums for games without random map generators filled with people talking about "the ultimate build order and choices to beat x or y map"... This all but disappears and you truly do have to adapt and change things on the fly with a true random map. The same ploys and builds don't work well when the map puts obstacles or hardships in your way. It becomes less a game of rote and practiced single strategies and "build plans" and more of a true test of a player's abilities.

In multi-player games, the human opponent provides this challenge. But without a human player to play against, something else needs to take up that mantle. I've found the best way is in the map creation.

You could start off as Vasari and have no volcanic planets to take advantage of...or for 2-3 jumps have nothing but debris fields and dead asteroids between you and the opposing Advent AI... Things like that.

Again, I agree that multi-player maps, even random ones, should have "fair and equal starting positions and surrounding grav wells...but not in single player mode.

Which sounds more like a complaint that you were a better player than the other guy. Without any more details than that, that's all that can be assumed. The only answer to why he couldn't skip that world and colonize the asteroids was because you did it first? How does that relate to the map being unbalanced?

Mazuo, look at the map dude. Did you look at it? Honestly? Did you look at it?

If you did, you will notice his first roid was 3 jumps away. In 2 jumps, I got 2 roids. Is it that hard to believe that I could colonize 1 roid and jump to the next in the time it takes to make 3 jumps?

Then not to mention he has to go through that volcanic, and let's be honest, who wouldn't try to colonize it if you know that may be the only planet you get the whole game.

Mazuo, I am ending our dialoge right now until you actually look at that picture.

i rather enjoy the randomness....i figure it is the way it is supposed to be.....you may get some bad territory...you may not....then it is up to you to see what you can do with it...

JD, I enjoy the randomness too. My main point here is that everyone should have an "equivalent" start. So if 1 guy gets 1 phase lane from the HW, so does everyone else. If 1 guy gets a 2 bar defended desert off the HW, so should everyone else. I don't mind being hosed, so long as everyone else is. Otherwise, you get stomped in multiplayer.

Always enjoy the maturity around these forums.

Sorry no time to read all the replies to your OP. So fast question for you. What did you have the slider for minimal planet distances apart set to? That adjustment might help.

@ dragoaskani - huh? This is a random generated map, you don't have that control. You do get that control in custom maps. And I zoomed in to take the picture, the spacing was just fine.

You don't have control over the 3 planets you start with.......