HARDCODED LIMITS - by DANMAN

BREAKING THE MODS

from Sins Forums

Hello All,

It has been made apparent now that there are many hardcoded limits in the game, which cannot be modded around, and are like a brick wall once you hit them. For example, here are some hardcoded limits that I have come across:

Structures and units - These cannot be changed or altered, which means that you cannot mix unit types.  You cannot have a orbital defense cannon have fighters and you cannot have a fighter bay have weapons

Captial ship limit. - the limit was 5, but this has been now changed to 9 in the 1.1 BETA, which IS much better

Weapon limit - you cannot have more than 3 different weapons on a ship

Ability limit - You cannot have more than 4 abilities per unit

Star Abilities - you can only have 1 ability on a Star.  Planets can have 4

Sounds - there is a max of 1100 sounds, spread across dialog, music, and effects.  The cobination of these files cannot reach 1100, or the game will dump

MODELS- the 3D models, or meshes, can only have a maximum of 10 emitters for any particular weapon, engine, etc., or the game will crash.

STRING FILE - EDIT - No limit now, as far as I can tell.  I have over 5780 entries so far.

I am writing this for all modders, so that they know that there are hardcoded limits which they cannot be changed or modded around at this time.  I am also writing this for the developers, in hopes that they will read this and consider changing these limits so that us modders can do what we do without having to worry about hitting an invisible ceiling.

I would appreciate everyone's support in this, from both modders and gamers alike. 

Thankyou.

DANMAN

modding
296,461 views 156 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Unfortunately for most of these limits Ironclad already posting that it would require an engine rewrite to remove them, which they aren't willing to do at this point.

I am surprised a bit at the String file limit, but I'm thinking that one at least might be easy for them to tweak. I would suggest emailing them and asking about it, a change like this may be small enough to still make it into 1.1 final *crosses fingers*.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
There is also a limit on the number of null points a mesh can have, so you can run out of places for guns, lights and other effects.
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
I for one have greatly enjoyed the additional material that 7 Deadly Sins Mod has added to the game. Please count this as a request to open up some of the limits so that modders can continue to add content.

I know as a software developer that it should be at least possible to force strings to trim rather than causing a dump.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Well I think that, in some case, the're just lazy. they could go beyond 9 types of ships by just adding a scroll bar or button to interface panel.

I also don't understand (and this bother me really much) why there can't be more that one type of fighter and one type of bomber per ship (it should be possible to have at least 9 types of strike crafts per ship, isn't it?) :(
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Remove the hardcodes Sins developers! We want more in our mods.

DANMAN, have you considered the fact the Sins developers jut don't want anyone to make a mod so ultimately better than their game in terms of size, scale, and sheer awesome?

Seems with these hardcodes they can force their jealousy on mod makers. Death to the evil hardcodes!
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
When I found 7DS, I thought it was great how moddable the game was. Unfortunately, the hardcodes have made it obvious how wrong I was. Sins ran into a sound hardcode when there was still only 1 new race in the game, but that was a nusisance compared to one that controls the way the entire game is run and can mess with everything else.

Ironclad, please remove these limits. Sins has done about 4% of the original scope of the mod, and I'd say that, as is, it's a mod that has become more than a little something that a few people enjoy. It has been featured as good points about the game in reviews of SoaSE, something to look forward to after buying the game. We need your help now to continue our progress.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
As psugar describes, it's not quite as easy as simply removing the hardcodes. As limiting as they are, the engine relies on them and so removing them means re-writing the engine which is a major undertaking and would require a lot of resources. Note that he did leave the possibility open of some things being tweaked.

Quote:

.) Adding new entity types to the game, or new buff atomics, etc is non-trivial and will require code support, thus testing, new patches, etc. If there is strong support for a particular change (I hear a lot of "let me add fighters to my defense module") it may happen but it is not possible to give this control to the modders without rewriting the engine :S
.) Some of the hardcoded limits will have to stay, just because of engine design choices. We WILL do what we can to clarify what things are hardcoded and to mitigate them as much as possible. For instance, the capital ship limit will be increased (in 1.1).


Original thread, reply #38

Personally, I do think they realize (and have for a long time) that the modders are not content with the limits, and I would be surprised if the expansion and/or Sins 2 didn't include some engine modifications to get rid of some of these, or at least extend them.
+1 Loading…
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Thank you all for your support, it is greatly appreciated.

Annatar, I will do just that. Is there anyone in particualr that I should send a message too?

Thank you all again,

DANMAN
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
[quote]
Structures and units - These cannot be changed or altered, which means that you cannot mix unit types.  You cannot have a orbital defense cannon have fighters and you cannot have a fighter bay have weapons

actually this is possible as i have done it with limited success ^^ on one of our stargate shipyard models i have given it some weapons so it kicks ass :) now i can tell u how i did this but i fear u allready know how to do it and either dissmised it or it does not work how u want it to

Loki

ps nice mod i have used it to help me learn how to edit files and such
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
There is also a limit on the number of null points a mesh can have, so you can run out of places for guns, lights and other effects.


Thank you TFL, I fogot about these. Yes, you can only have 10 of each emmiter in any model. And they must be the correct size too!

DANMAN
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
[quote]
Structures and units - These cannot be changed or altered, which means that you cannot mix unit types.  You cannot have a orbital defense cannon have fighters and you cannot have a fighter bay have weaponsactually this is possible as i have done it with limited success ^^ on one of our stargate shipyard models i have given it some weapons so it kicks ass now i can tell u how i did this but i fear u allready know how to do it and either dissmised it or it does not work how u want it toLokips nice mod i have used it to help me learn how to edit files and such


Loki,
I would love to know how you did this. The game would just dump for me. The only thing I have been able to do so far is add shields, weapons are being very elusinve to add in. Also, I am glad you were able to use 7DS to further the Star Gate mod. I can't wait unti it comes out.

Thank you for your support.

DANMAN
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Annatar, I will do just that. Is there anyone in particualr that I should send a message too?


Hmm, either [email protected] or [email protected] .. it would sort of fit into both. I'd send it to support, I think.

on one of our stargate shipyard models i have given it some weapons so it kicks ass


But do you have a planet defense module that has both strikecraft and weapons? ;) My comment was specific to "Weapondefense" and "Hangardefense" entity types, they are still, to my knowledge, exclusive and you can't put fighters into a "Weapondefense" entity, and can't put weapons on a "Hangardefense" entity.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
SoaSE is an awe inspiring game, I love it. And what makes it more spectacular are the creative geniuses tweaking this wonderful game, making it more than the sum of its parts ... with 7DS (and all its contributors) it has evolved ... into something far more special and magnificent.

Ironclad, it would be a great shame and crime that all the hard and spellbinding work done in 7DS to suddenly cease. The current 7DS beta 2b is amazing, and only a fraction of how amazing it is going to be ...

Please, listen to DANMAN3712. I choose not to patch 1.1. I choose 7DS! And all the great work it contains.

We have tasted the fruit of 7DS, and we want more ...
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
ofc its pretty simple ill tell u over msn or somthing if u have it
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
The Sins game was just what the gaming community needed. Word gets out and sales grow. Because the Sins Developers allowed the game to be modified, it has really taken off!! Just look at the amount of different mods out there and still growing. look how much activity the forums have. How many other games can say that? I am primarily and end user, just play the game, but now I find myelf learning to mod also and now part of 7deadly team. I ask the developers to also unlimit a couple items like the string file so that modders can do more for this game. It can only mean more sales and greatness for this game!

Awolf
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Remove the hardcodes!!! Please for the love of sinners everywhere!!! Let the modders mod, as you reap the rewards from the increased cash.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I wish you thank you for all your support. Hopefully through one voice we will be heard.

Annatar, I will email both those addresses, and hopefully I will get some kind of response.

Loki, I am on google, and on XFIRE.

danman3712

Thank you, to everyone, for all your support.

DANMAN
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Hey what you have said really puts this game down a peg. I also play silent hunter 3 and GWX is a great mod but they put it directly into the game would this get around the problem you are having with a limit on the string?
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
but they put it directly into the game would this get around the problem you are having with a limit on the string?


Well, if you replace the existing strings then obviously things that reference the existing ones would break. To add new stuff you usually need to add new strings, can't replace the existing ones.

Annatar, I will email both those addresses, and hopefully I will get some kind of response.



Don't email both, they're read by the same people anyway (Ironclad Games is 9 people :P). I doubt it'd get lost.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
I wonder why stardock or ironclad has not replied to this????????????????????

Im am saddened that 7Deadly Sins has to stop advancing...

DANMAN-Couldnt you mass counterdiscriptions. I know this would take forever but couldnt you create one counterdiscription (blank) and use it for every ship? if so this would give some room to atleast get out 2.0...
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
but they put it directly into the game would this get around the problem you are having with a limit on the string?Well, if you replace the existing strings then obviously things that reference the existing ones would break. To add new stuff you usually need to add new strings, can't replace the existing ones.
Annatar, I will email both those addresses, and hopefully I will get some kind of response.Don't email both, they're read by the same people anyway (Ironclad Games is 9 people ). I doubt it'd get lost.


Thank you again Annatar for your support. Your presense is legendary around here, and you have helped so many people. It was a pleasure posting with you in the other thread a months or so ago regarding these same limits. Thank you for your quick response and your support. Having you here is critical to getting these limits removed or changed. I will email one email, as I also realize they are small team.

DANMAN
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
Ok I see what you are talking about now. Never modded a game before but play many games with mods. Just thought that was an idea i don't want 7DS to stop because of a bump in the road, though it is a large one.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
It is true that you can't mix module functionality like Hangars and Weapons, the structure can still spawn a stationary frigate with hangars and weapons...

While some workarounds work fine, you still can't mix the functionality of Tradeports and Refineries...

It's too bad about the String Limits, didn't see that one coming (hope they fix it)...
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
Oh, can you trim off things like the TUTORIALS, and LOADSCREEN TIPS???
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
DANMAN-Couldnt you mass counterdiscriptions. I know this would take forever but couldnt you create one counterdiscription (blank) and use it for every ship? if so this would give some room to atleast get out 2.0...-Derek06


This will work as i just tested it...