[Balance] The subverter has been nerfed too much

I also concur with his opinion. Due to emergence of strikecrafts, the effectiveness of subverters has been dramatically reduced.

I'd even suggest back to 1.05 stat (100 antimatter and 30 sec) since post-patch's battlefields would be like 50% strikecraft, 30% long range and 20% HCs, which means the effectiveness of subverters has been reduced to 50% or even less.

The main problem I have with subverters is that their auto-cast AI is idiotic. You'll often see four or five separate subverters all target the same enemy, even if it's already locked down.

Also: Why in the world would a subverter decide it's a good idea to lock down things that can't fight back, such as mineral extractors and trade ports?!

subverters disable anything and stop all its functions including those of extractors. I completely agree with this the subverter is to far gone to be useful. I have started using overseers to replace my subverters cause there is simple no point in making them anymore.

Nerfing the time of effect isn't a bad idea. Perhaps making the antimatter cost 150 would work too.

In the end though, keeping the subverter as in 1.05 is not an option. In late game the subverter can lock down the entire enemy fleet which is just too much. Something needs to be changed, that much is certain, but I couldn't agree more that the ship has been nerfed a tad much.

I agree to nerfing the subverter, and about the ai being idiotic? Any single player game i play, the ai manages to lock down my entire army and i will get wiped out even when odds are in my favor, but as to being too much......yeah im basicaly repeating the others...lol

Did you ever think of using a counter JR? The subverter cannot lock down capital ships or fighters/bombers. The subverter is easily countered. I am not saying that perhaps a little nerf is in order (maybe even a unit limit on the area of effect), but the nerf they put in place is huge, especially on the v1.09 battlefield.

Can I just be honest for a second here?

Question: Why have ships that are really cool (but are high on the tech tree) that are nerfed beyond belief?

Answer: Because people who don't like a challenge complain to much about how experienced players (or an AI that has been breeding far too long) use the ships that were given to them. Perhaps the inexperienced players should learn how to use them (and counter them).

What a novel concept.

Oh, here's a link to the forum about how one guy complained so much about the subverter he modded it out of the game.

WWW Link

Obviously, I agree with Annatar's and Raging's posts in that thread (post 2 & 3).

They were using 1.05 rather than 1.09.

Kitkun, I think you missed the point of my thread. I am arguing that the nerf is too much in v1.09 and that I would rather have it be closer to that of v1.05.

Yep.

Just want to start off by saying that I am not participating in the 1.09 beta. I know this is a thread that is talking about 1.09 and even though I have not seen the changes and experienced them first hand, my time playing 1.05 gives me some credibility (at least I hope. ^.^)

I want to say that I agree with those who think the Subverter was nerfed too much. From what I've read around the forums and my experiences using subverters and fighting against them, I can only say that I am disappointed that it's abilities have been reduced so much.

I have played several matches where my fleet goes up against an enemy Vasari fleet late game with Subverters. As the fleet enters my planet's grav well I look over the incoming fleet and find the Subverters, ordering my fleet to systimatically joint fire on each of them. Even in these battles most of my fleet is disabled by the Subverters, but taking the initiative against the fleet I have destroyed several of them. I then use my Capital ships and strike craft, that are immune, to destroy the remaining Subverters. Wa la! My fleet is freed from the Subverter's clutches with very few losses and is free to wipe out the remaining enemy forces. All it took was some planning as the fleets closed in on each other.

This game requires some thought. Even if it isn't as tactical as Supreme Commander, it still demands that the player look at the enemy fleet and identify the biggest threat. In my personal opinion I thought they (the subverter's) are fine just as they are, but I do understand some player's opinions that they need to be slightly decreased in strength. My annoyance is directed at the players who don't try to figure out ways to combat an enemy fleet's strengths and want the Subverter's nerfed. Strategy games are moving past the whole, build many units kill enemy army, idea and more in to the tactical and strategic aspects of military control. I have seen way to many units, classes, and other aspects of games nerfed because of people who are on the recieving end and do nothing about it complain. Again I am not angry at everyone who is for the Subverter's reduction in strength, just those that won't figure out there own counter's.

I am more worried about the increase in strike craft that the carriers can hold than I am anything else.

sorry i do like the ship, and it should be able to kick butt, that is what makes this game so friggin awesome asa strategy cause ships have counters and those counters have counters, figured i'd say what might help, but the subverter seems to be fine now....

The Subverter has been nerfed a little less harshly than the originally posted patch notes detailed; the antimatter cost for Distortion Field has been changed to 150.

Yay for listening.

*applauds* *crowds cheer in background* *Babies cry for joy* *and a tree falls in the forest...does it make a sound?*


Yes! A win for tactical gamers!

Tears of joy are streaming down my face.   

However, I still say that a cost of 100 antimatter and a shorter duration would be better. My reasoning is that with such a large anitmatter cost, the subverter won't be used in offensive fleets, as phase jumping will deplete the antimatter. Alas, I won't complain about it though, comprise is good.

150 sounds good, cause last time I played against a Vasari hard AI, he built 30 subverters on one of his fleet, and it was a pretty damn huge pain in the ass to destroy that fleet.