TEC Lovers Beware

from Sins Forums

Compared to Advent and Vasari, TEC ironically have the worst early game econ (as in the first 30-45 minutes). I know they're supposed to be the economist race, but TEC lack what Advent and Vasari have: an early game economy bonus.

What do I mean by that? Well, in an online match the pace of the game is so fast that it's rare for the game to go 30 minutes without you and an opponent butting heads. Advent and Vasari can manage both an economy and a fleet early because they have some sort of economic bonus that they can lean on.

Yes Advent are vulnerable until they have Illums out, but their mothership makes planet upgrades so much cheaper. Lvl 1 20% off, LvL 2 40% off, LvL 3 60% off. That may not seem like much, but what it allows Advent to do is spend much less on the logistics upgrades for planets. Getting to LvL 2 makes the planet produce credits, but since Advent are on discount they can buy the third LvL upgrade and actually turn the planet into a huge credit generator. It's a great technique because it requires so little maintenance to make this credit source. 

While Advent get planet upgrades cheap, Vasari get neutral mines. Their scouts can find neutral mines all over the map early and get Vasari absolutely ridiculous income in minerals which can be sold for credits.

TEC, however, have to make their income. They have to make tradeports to have a comparable income, but the tradeports are so expensive that by the time those ports are up, the enemy is sending a fleet in and destorying them.

Beware going the economy route with TEC. You are very vulnerable. 

strategy
19,849 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I think an idea for boosting TEC into a viable force might be to start them out with two civic labs. That way, they have a colonization bonus, a research bonus, and can truly go fast with the trade ports.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
correct, tec have to spend much less to get trading posts. they save the cost of buying 1 civic lab (and the logistical slots that a 3rd one would take up) AND they only have to pay for a tech 2 research rather than a tech 3.

saving money on upgrades for advent is nice but unless you're taking tons of planets at the start i think tec actually have the advantage.

and with vasari, half the maps i play on dont even have neutral mines (although it's a really nice bonus if they do).
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
PaulTa, I disagree with getting civ labs first. I mean, sure, it'll boost your economy fast, but if an enemy gets to you and all you have are civ labs because you didn't get a decent fleet to defend yourself with, then you're screwed.

Oh, and Raging, I actually managed to fight off an Illum spam yesterday only using lrms. I was surprised myself. But I think it was mainly due to me having an extra asteroid so I could keep pumping out lrms...Everyone quit the game though, so I didn't get to see the outcome after I forced their retreat.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Fighting off Illums with LRMS is by no means impossible, and really, kudos Wiggin.

The problem is the overwhelming trend is that TEC seems to lose in most cases to an Illuminator spam.

Personally, I say the way TEC can be made competitive is to include Tradeports in the upgrade that makes mines and frig/cap factories cheaper.
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Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not even gonna try to really think out the pros and cons of allowing that, but at a glance, I think the advantage given to TEC is a bit to much. Personally, I just think that Advent illums need to be toned down a bit. As for Vasari, I don't really have any problems early game with them. It's only late game that I start to get worried with Vasari.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I feel TEC are pretty balanced and only start to have problems at end game. Every map favors each race a little differently. Some have neutrals, some have time to set up trade, etc.

Look at it this way. The long range frigate is a substantial upgrade over the basic frigate, and trade is important to fuel the an economic war machine for larger games.

LRM + Trade Lab Requirements.

TEC 2 Mil 2 Civ = 4 Labs
Vasari 1 Mil 4 Civ = 5 Labs
Advent 3 Mil 3 Civ = 6 Labs


I have no problems with the TEC economy. My main issues with them is I have a hard time fighting Vasari and Advent with late game fleets. Even with superior numbers, it can be a challege if the other player is good.


Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I would agree with Raging. I have been playing Vasari lately, and with just one lab, I can colonize any non techable planet, no matter how well defended, because I can start pumping out LRMs. Plus on random maps, you almost always get some amount of neutral mines. By the time I have 5-6 planets I have culture and by 7-8 I have trade. And those 4 labs get you the ability to tech Ice and Volc and then you are one step away from phase gates, which I would build regardless if I go RA (of course, I only place them strategically if I don't need them for RA). I am almost always #1 in econ playing Vasari, including #1 in credits.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, TEC has an easier time getting trade ports up.
But frankly, woop do freakin do.

You won't be building trade ports early game anyway. Therefore you won't be teching them. The way I see it, by the time you want to build trade ports, you'll probably have the extra 1 or 2 civ labs anyway.

And even if you do have the extra income to invest, it's not like there aren't other options.

Instead of researching and building (multiple) trade ports, any race can just upgrade a planets civilian infrastructure. Or instead get the population bonus techs. These are almost as good, if not better than, building trade ports.. Keep in mind trade ports involve (sometimes) increasing the logistical capacity as well.

Point is, early trade ports is not an advantage for the TEC.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
TEC are slow to start, and it take a good 45 min to get a decent economy going, and that's only if you are not doing fleet research.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
i generally dont have a problem with tech. Yes they are difficult early game, but i tend to do MORE then ok against multiple hard AIs. Given i haven't played online since the game first dropped and the online flopped due to networking problems. I normally work hard to get trade ports up. I even tend to skim a little on the fleet upgrades, normally i get the first one, but wait on the second one playing a very deffensive game untill i get my whole network of trade ports up and running. And i do build ALOT of them. Esspecially if i find a planet with a trade bonus ill build tradeports ONLY on that one. makes for LOTS of income.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Traviler, I think you should come back and play the game online. I can't imagine that playing against the AI compares to playing against real people.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
My main issues with them is I have a hard time fighting Vasari and Advent with late game fleets. Even with superior numbers, it can be a challege if the other player is good.


Vasari and Advent support cruisers make it hard on TEC late game. The only effective tactics I've found is to use the Dunov's EMP charge to take down the enemy cruisers anti matter, and to compose my fleet of kodiaks and cobalts with the sabotage reactor upgrade. The Kodiaks can rip through enemy LRFs clearing the way for your cobalts to go cruiser hunting. However, this puts strat puts a lot on your Kodiaks as they'll have to deal with both LRFs and heavy cruisers. If you can get some bombers in there it really helps. Other than that, you really will have to have significant numerical superiority in terms of heavy cruiser hulls.

However, with TEC economics, it's not impossible.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I hope I wasn't taken to mean something I didn't. My main point with this whole post was I was trying to make the point to newer players that building tradeports with TEC during the very early stages of a game is very dangerous.

I like the idea of building tradeports with TEC, and the earlier they can be up and running, the earlier they'll pay themselves off.

The drawback unfortunately is what ruins them for online play. They're so expensive and gobble up so many slots that TEC don't hold a prayer in holding off opponents when they're investing in economy while their opponents have a crutch to lean on for economic stimulus so they can then focus on military.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
I think that everyone missed my point from what I read, which was starting TEC off with TWO FREE CIVIC LABS lol.

That might be a little extreme though. Perhaps cheaper and less slot heavy trade ports for TEC? I could see that through a storyline perspective as well.

I think we can all agree that TEC need a boost. The Akkan is crap comparably speaking, the econ has no advantages, and the only fleet ship that really shines is the Kodiak.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
The Akkan is crap comparably speaking, the econ has no advantages, and the only fleet ship that really shines is the Kodiak.


Targeting Array really needs a fix to make the Akkan useful. It should be a straight up damage buff. Having the bonus only matter in really rare situations is counter-intuitive.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I think we can all agree that TEC need a boost. The Akkan is crap comparably speaking, the econ has no advantages, and the only fleet ship that really shines is the Kodiak.


Hoshikos rock!!!

I have never been able to work out how/what the targetting array does - I understand the Ceilo - more damage etc...
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I have never been able to work out how/what the targetting array does - I understand the Ceilo - more damage etc...


That's why it's counter-intuitive. I don't think anyone really knows for sure - but the deal is that your to-hit is at 100% and there's only three things that effect this, Asteroid Fields, a Vasari Cap Ship ability, and the Targeting array. Theoretically, the Array is useless everywhere else.

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I have never been able to work out how/what the targetting array does - I understand the Ceilo - more damage etc...

I think it's more used for helping flak to hit its targets...since I think it has less to hit against fighters/bombers...and increase the range of the LRM to make them snipers...?

That's my guess...
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
The Akkan Uplink also gives a range bonus. +6% -> +12% -> +20%
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
As of the moment, the only thing targeting uplink really does is gives you a boost in asteroid fields where you lose some of your accuracy, AND it makes flak frigates lethal against fighters. Flak have a default 75% hit percentage against fighters. The Akkan Targeting Uplink helps that.

Targeting uplink also helps with countering an Advent player using Vertigo.

Overall, the Akkan doesn't underperform IMO. Really, I see the Akkan as an anti-Advent unit. It's ability Ion bolt can be fired to stop abilities that are done over a period of time, such as Vertigo, Shield Regeneration, or Malice.

I have full respect for the colonize ability on any colony capital ship for you expand quicker with any colony capital ships.

Armistice is such a great tactical ability. Provided your Akkan makes it to level 6, you'll never lose it. I mean that. Once it starts getting hurt, just turn on Armistice.

Armistice opens up huge tactical options. I've harped about them, but when you can split your fleet and the smaller fleet has Armistice to prevent it from being lost, you can attack your opponents fleet and at the same time be taking one of his planets with an Akkan and a Marza in another gravity well. I just love it.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
My point here is that I'm trying to emphasize that tradeports are not a good early game investment: period. They cost too much.

Unfortunately, to do well with TEC, you need to understand the game and understand how some of the abilities of the race can be used tactically. Most new players choose TEC because of the, no offense to new players, simplicity of the race. Everything is rather direct as compared to Vasari or Advent.

To be successful with TEC, you must exploit some strength of the TEC, as few as they are, to win games.

What are TEC strengths?

Best Heavy Cruiser
Best Scout ability (god I love that bomb building ability)
Best Seige Cap (it's a seige cap at LvL 1 and better than the Vasari Seige cap)
Armistice
Hoshikos
Cielos (late game only)

What are TEC weaknesses?

Worst long range frigate
Overall rather lackluster capital ships
No early game economy boost
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
amish how do you use the scout bomb ability?

I've tried sending in like 30 of them and they do very little good.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
The scout bomb ability is a third tier tech in the military tree. I have no idea what it's called but it has a picture of a stopwatch.

Once it's teched, the ability is turned on for all of your scouts. Be careful. Know where they are so when it turns on you can disable the autocast, and I do mean on all scouts....except for your scouts that are on auto explore and scouting.

Ok, once it's teched, you have to send them one by one and tell them to target a building with this ability.

You will see them get close to the building if you did it right, and a little orange circle will appear above the scout. Once the circle disappears, there's about a 10 second delay and the bomb detonates. It does...give or take...1000-1200 damage. I don't really remember. You'll need 6 to take a lab, that's what I remember. 5 for a frigate factory.

If it's destroyed before the orange cirle goes away, the ability will not go off. If it's destroyed after the cirle goes away, it will still fire.

Also, be careful. It has a 10 minute cooldown.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
The scout bomb ability is a third tier tech in the military tree. I have no idea what it's called but it has a picture of a stopwatch. Once it's teched, the ability is turned on for all of your scouts. Be careful. Know where they are so when it turns on you can disable the autocast, and I do mean on all scouts....except for your scouts that are on auto explore and scouting. Ok, once it's teched, you have to send them one by one and tell them to target a building with this ability. You will see them get close to the building if you did it right, and a little orange circle will appear above the scout. Once the circle disappears, there's about a 10 second delay and the bomb detonates. It does...give or take...1000-1200 damage. I don't really remember. You'll need 6 to take a lab, that's what I remember. 5 for a frigate factory. If it's destroyed before the orange cirle goes away, the ability will not go off. If it's destroyed after the cirle goes away, it will still fire.Also, be careful. It has a 10 minute cooldown.


you misunderstood. I know how to use timed explosives, but I want to know why you think it's so good and how to use it well.

Like I said, I've sent in hordes of scouts (like 30+) and destroyed like.... 4 buildings.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Oh, I'm sorry, and you're right, they don't destroy too much. What's key is picking the right targets.

What I mean is, look around his worlds. Find two key targets: military labs and frigate factories.

I'm not going to say everyone does this, but most people only use the frigate factory on the homeworld and build their EARLY fleets from just that frigate factory. When I say early, I mean within the first 30 to maybe 45 minutes.

Eventually, people build a few more, but they're not a good investment early unless you're scuttling it at the homeworld and moving it elsewhere.

If you can take out that LONE frigate factory, that's a hard setback on his fleet build-up. Especially considering that you can then send the scouts to kill the constructors. You force him to either come back to kill your scouts or waste resources so he can expand and build one elsewhere. Either way, it's a nice way to stall him.

The other target is military labs. See if you can find a planet where he build 2+ military labs. Destroy them and constructors. Lethal against Advent. Strong against TEC, not so strong against Vasari considering they only need 1 lab to make Assailants.

I consider the scout lethal because they can buy you so much time that by the time your opponnent has 300 ship slots used up with long range frigates, you have your own 300 slots used up with the counter: heavy cruisers.